1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Commentary on John 17:10-11:

Discussion in 'Christianity DIR' started by iris89, Dec 27, 2004.

  1. iris89

    iris89 Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2004
    Messages:
    434
    Ratings:
    +21
    Hi Everyone:

    John 17:10-11 and all things that are mine are thine, and thine are mine: and I am glorified in them. 11 And I am no more in the world, and these are in the world, and I come to theee. Holy Father, keep them in thy name which thou hast given me, that they may be one, even as we are. (American Standard Version; ASV)

    This scripture emphasizes the fact that Jesus (Yeshua), the Son of God (YHWH); Almighty God (YHWH); and Jesus' (Yeshua's) followers are one in purpose, but definitely NOT one individual; They, the Father (YHWH), the Son of God, Jesus (Yeshua), and his true followers are all separate individuals or beings. This oneness of purpose is made clear at John 17:21-22, with Jesus (Yeshua) speaking, "That they all may be one as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou has sent me. 22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: " (Authorized King James Bible; AV); however, there are the false prophets warned about at , Matthew 24:24, "For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect." (ASV) who falsely claim Jesus (Yeshua) is Almighty God (YHWH) and attempt to twist the scriptures with deceitful hermeneutic methodology to distort scriptural truth.

    They latch onto the biased translation construct of John 1:1 in the King James Bible to distort the truth since it reads, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (Authorized King James Bible; AV); but overlook what follows that clearly show this construct does NOT AGREE with the remainder of the First Chapter of John. Actually, this construct or rendering is only one of about nine different ways it can be translated without violating any of the rules of Greek grammar, but this way does not fit with context as clearly shown by how John 1:2 is commonly translated as follows, "The same was in the beginning with God." (AV), clearly showing Jesus (Yeshua) was with God (YHWH) and was NOT God (YHWH) as was indicated by the common poor translation of John 1:1. This fact is also born out by John 1:14, "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." (AV). Also, they conveniently forget what is written at John 13:1, Now before the feast of the Passover, Jesus knowing that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved his own that were in the world, he loved them unto the end." (ASV); And he has arranged for these to be guarded, 1 Peter 1:5, "who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." (ASV).

    However, Trinitarians, those misguided ones that falsely claim try and claim Jesus (Yeshua) is Almighty God (YHWH) and attempt to twist the scriptures with deceitful hermeneutic methodology to distort scriptural truth with respect the Father (YHWH); the Son of God (YHWH), Jesus (Yeshua), and God's (YHWH's) active force or power the Spirit or Holy Spirit or Holy Ghost are all one and the same, how utterly foolish. They point to one way John 1:1 is translated is a desperate grasping at straws not realizing that no matter which construct, way of translating, John 1:1 they use or accept it really would NOT help their case. When you think about it, if one of the wrong constructs such as that of the King James Bible were used, this construct says, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." (Authorized King James Bible; AV); Instead of a construct that harmonizes with the remaining contest of the first Chapter of John which of course the King James Bible construct does not.

    But for argument sake, let's for the moment accept the King James Bible construct as our premise. It would only indicate at best that Jesus (Yeshua) and His Father (YHWH) are one; An impossibility as a father and a son can not be one and the same as all reasonable individuals well know. However, let's assume for the moment that this is the case; this would only prove the Trinitarians were in gross error since in no way can they even twist the wrong construct for John 1:1 to create a Trinity of three-in-one as even the wrong construct would at most support a two-in-one Godhead. In fact there is no credible scripture in the entire Bible that says that the Father (YHWH); the Son of God, Jesus (Yeshua); and the Holy Spirit, God's (YHWH's) active force or power are one in being. So no matter which construct you accept for John 1:1, you have NO Trinity, only a possible Duality if you accept the construct used in the King James Bible which does not harmonize with the remainder of the first Chapter of John.

    Thus any way you 'twist it' John 1:1 is really anti-Trinitarian; therefore, the only real legitimate question would be which one of the five anti-Trinitarian belief is correct, and NOT whether the Trinity or anti-Trinity belief is correct since only one of the anti-Trinitarian views can be correct as this is the ONLY possibility no matter which of the 9 or 10 possible constructs for John 1:1 you accept as correct. Therefore, it is easy to see the mainstream religious view can NOT hold any Truth what-so-ever; hence it is nothing but a myth, once more showing the majority view is, as usual, in error. This was also the case in the middle ages when the majority viewed the sun as circling the earth and this view was rigidly enforced with dire consequences for none acceptance by Trinitarian denominations and their leaders [one actually burnt at the stake by Trinitarian church leaders was Giordano Bruno]; however it was wrong just as is the Trinitarian view itself.

    Now, let's consider how their false doctrine of the Trinity dishonors God (YHWH); They are in effect denying that Jesus (Yeshua) is as the Bible states that Jesus (Yeshua) himself said he was the Son of God at Matthew 127:43, "He trusteth on God; let him deliver him now, if he desireth him: for he said, I am the Son of God" (ASV); And at, many other places in the Bible it likewise testifies to the fact that Christ Jesus (Yeshua), the Messiah, is the Son of God; And at Matthew 16:16, "And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God." (ASV); And at Matthew 26:63-64, "But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou art the Christ, the Son of god. 64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Henceforth ye shall see the Son of man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven." (ASV); whereas, these myth believers claim that he, Jesus (Yeshua) is God (YHWH) himself, thereby making themselves part of the Anti-crist since by so doing they are clearly denying the Father, Almighty God (YHWH) as a distinct individual per 1 John 2:22, "Who is the liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, even he that denieth the Father and the Son" (ASV). Also, quoted above at Matthew 26:63-64 it says, " I say unto you, Henceforth ye shall see the Son of man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven." Which clearly shows that he would be "on the right hand of the power of God' and NOT God (YHWH) himself; thereby, making it inexcusable for anyone to believe this myth and be a part of the Anti-christ. The Bible makes it more clear at 1 John 2:18, "Little children, it is the last hour: and as ye heard that anti-christ cometh, even now have there arisen many antichrista: whereby we know that it is the last hour." (ASV).

    To learn more about our savior Jesus (Yeshua) go read my documentary, Documentary on our Savior Jesus (Yeshua) at
    http://p078.ezboard.com/fyahwehstruthinchristfrm2.showMessage?topicID=74.topic

    Your Friend in Christ Iris89
     
Loading...