College, career, and children

[MaddLlama]

I need some advice from all you wonderful people, since I'm trying to make a decision and I'm not happy with either choice. :help:

A little background; I'm 24, married, and I have not graduated college. I am actually nowehere near close to being finished. Actually at this rate my brother who is seven years younger than me will be finished with college before I will. My friends have all graduated and most of them have jobs. This is fairly irrelevent, but it makes me feel crappy. Right now because of transferring three times and changing majors twice, I now have a whopping 12 credits to my name. And the biggest kicker is that the school that has the degree I would want to get will only take me as a transfer student if I have 33 credits (since my high school scores aren't good enough for them). So, I would have to get the remaining credits at a community college and then transfer again and loose more credits before I can finally get a degree.

So, what's my point? Yes, if I put in the time and effort I could do it without a problem. However, I don't really want to, and I don't need to. What's the point of having a college degree if you don't plan on actually using it to start a career? I married into a family that owns a very lucrative business, so I don't ever need to work a job to support my family. And, I do want to have kids. If I finish school, not only will I not need to have a career, but I'll start having kids right after I graduate. I don't have to work, so I'd rather do the things that I want to do - my multitude of hobbies, my small business, and have a family. But, I feel like I'm being selfish by doing so.

My parents are pressuring me to finish school (as they put it) because if I should ever get a divorce I won't be able to work. My husband's parent's are pressuring me to go to college because in thier eyes, if you don't have a degree in something then you don't deserve respect. Chad just wants me to do what makes me happy. And, I'm afraid that neither of these things will make me happy.


Wow...ok I apologise for the book, I didn't mean to ramble on for this long.

 

[Bishka]

What does make you happy though?

Children? A degree? I guess what ever feels the best in your heart.

 

[Booko]

So, what's my point? Yes, if I put in the time and effort I could do it without a problem. However, I don't really want to, and I don't need to. What's the point of having a college degree if you don't plan on actually using it to start a career? I married into a family that owns a very lucrative business, so I don't ever need to work a job to support my family. And, I do want to have kids.

You only get to raise your family once. If you don't have some near goal that requires the degree and you don't want it...why do it? Success in life is not dependent on some letters after your name. And there are many things in life that colleges simply do not teach.

Also, keep in mind we don't usually do well at things we don't really want to do. You know, next year you just might want to go to community college and slowly accumulate some credits. Things change.

If I finish school, not only will I not need to have a career, but I'll start having kids right after I graduate. I don't have to work, so I'd rather do the things that I want to do - my multitude of hobbies, my small business, and have a family. But, I feel like I'm being selfish by doing so.

It's selfish to raise your own children? The most important job anyone could possibly do? That's the crap society puts on moms who are mostly moms -- there's something wrong with you, you're lazy, you just want to stay at home and watch soaps and eat bonbons.

Turn down the volume on that noise. It's misguided at best. The women's movement wasn't about forcing women to have 3 jobs -- career, home and family, while the husband still had only one. It was about giving us *options* and fair treatment.

My parents are pressuring me to finish school (as they put it) because if I should ever get a divorce I won't be able to work.

Talk about planning to fail. :cover: It's one thing to make sure you have some way of supporting yourself. Heck my mom was widowed at 45, and had no skills and ancient work history. It was a shocker, but she managed. And so can you, if it comes to it.

My husband's parent's are pressuring me to go to college because in thier eyes, if you don't have a degree in something then you don't deserve respect.

Oh brother. One of my best friends has inlaws like this. Please tell me you don't live in the same town...

Hm, I have lots of letters behind my name. Howz about I come over for dinner and impress them all with my letters, and then act like a jerk. After I've left, you can ask them what they respect more: degrees or courtesy.

Education is a fine thing, but if it isn't accompanied by the more important things, like a good character, love, kindness, compassion, and dedication, among other things, it's not deserving of respect.

And academics are no more deserving of respect than people from other walks of life. People deserve respect just because they are...people.

Chad just wants me to do what makes me happy. And, I'm afraid that neither of these things will make me happy.

Always remember, it's Chad you married and you live with. Consult with him about this, make a *joint* decision, and help him understand that the two of you will have to present a united front to the parents on this subject. If his parents are giving you a problem, this means *he* will have to intercede on your behalf and communicate very clearly with his parents. For most men under 40 I've known, this can be very difficult, but in the interests of keeping their marriage, men sometimes have to grow a spine. Sometimes that means the wife has to insist he grow one. Hopefully you won't have any problems like this.

Wow...ok I apologise for the book, I didn't mean to ramble on for this long.

Oh go right ahead! Now I don't feel so bad I rambled back at ya. Sheesh, I just hope any of this was useful.

 

[Green Gaia]

Booko had some great points - listen to her. That said, I'm going to point out a couple different things from my perspective. As a mom of two trying to finish my degree, it is sometimes very hard to juggle it all. I've had to transfer twice, lose credits, reapply, sit out years when I couldn't handle kids and school, take one class at a time some semesters... it's hard and sometimes frustrating that I'm still working on the damn thing.

My advice: If you have ANY desire at all to get a degree, (whether you plan to have a career or not), I urge you to do it BEFORE you have kids. It is so much harder to manage once you have a family to take care of.

 

[evearael]

Are we related? I'm 24 with about 170 odd credits in a variety of subjects from mathematics to physics to anthropology, about a class or two shy of a degree in the later. I'll get back to it eventually. I had planned to finish off the last couple while pregnant, but I had a rough pregnancy--heart issues and bedrest. I was working until I was put on bedrest and was offered a big promotion after maternity leave, but I turned it down to stay home with my daughter. The deal I made with my husband is this: If he can sleep through the night, I can stay home with her. Then my husband joined the military to better support us and we moved across the country.

Being a stay-at-home-mommy is the toughest job I've ever had because there are no breaks. I'm working 24/7. I nursed the first year and she never slept more than two hours straight for the entirety of that year. My girl is up, to be continued!

 

[angellous_evangellous]

However, I don't really want to, and I don't need to.

You've already answered your own question.

Going to college for respect is not a good enough reason to go. If the family can't respect you for raising your children, then they are the ones that have the problem - not you.

If you actually do it to prepare yourself for divorce, consider this: you can fight to get half of that lucrative business anyway... that's what you can tell your parents.

Mom: "But you need education to work in case you get a divorce."

Llama: "Not if I can find a cute divorce lawyer.":beach:

 

[evearael]

...Anyway, caring for a child is important and exhausting work, but it is worth every second. My family has a very modest existence because military pay is modest, and that is fine by us. My husband and I both place a very big emphasis on family and we are happy to be living by our priorities and morals. The first year staying home is the hardest for many new mommies because it is such a huge adjustment from the normal working world. Most of my friends abandoned me, except for Jewscout and Drewish Princess, because they prioritized conspicuous consumption over just hanging out without dropping cash for the priviledge. That was very rough for me because I adore people and crave an active social life. I am much happier now that my husband's in the military because I am surrounded by other mommies who are in similar situations and my daughter has lots of kids her age to play with.

 

[MaddLlama]

Thanks guys, this is making me feel a lot better. ^_^

Actually, I probably should have mentioned this before; I don't necessarily *need* a deree to do what I want to do. In NY in order to be certified as fluent in a language you have to take a board test which is out of the scope of college. If I have that, will it be any more impressive if I have a supplementary degree in Asian Studies (and have to double major because even New Paltz thinks it's a pretend major)? I have a shelf full of dictionaries and workbooks that I can read and do on my own and then I can take the board certification test whenever I want.

I guess what it really comes down to is not wanting to upset my family and myself. I feel like a failure, and they probably will too.

Oh, and on the subject of my mil.....just to put it into perspective, she has a degree in phys ed. Yeah, physical health is good, but someone's really got to drill it into my head that she's in no position to be chiding me about intellectual persuits. Now...if I could only say that to her...

My mother never finished college before I was born, and I think she was really unhappy about it. She only just finished last year and now she's teaching. She doesn't want me to "end up like her", but at the same time if I get a degree in something now and have kids before I can use it, what guarantee do I have that 15 years from then, I'm going to want to get a job in that field? That's a lot of time to change my mind, which I do a lot.

A_E: I have a pre-nep, unfortunately. Luckily though, it works in my favor (most of the time). =)

Eve: I really want to have kids. Really really want to have kids. It's the only thing I'm really sure I want to do with my life at this point. I look forward to having a family. Luckily I am not the first out of my friends. One of the girls I went to high school with has a 6-month old little boy and all the girls love him. We're a really odd bunch and I think that if I had a baby I would see them more often than I do now! (seeing a cute baby is more incentive to drive 2 hours lol).

Maize: If I'm not sure that I want a degree, should I still do it? I worry that if I get one now and wait until the kids are old enough to take care of themselves to work I won't want to use it.

Book: (yeah sorry I'm too lazy to make seperate posts today... XD )

Also, keep in mind we don't usually do well at things we don't really want to do. You know, next year you just might want to go to community college and slowly accumulate some credits. Things change.

This is part of the problem - I don't actually know what I want to do. This unfortunately doesn't make things any easier to explain to anyone.

Always remember, it's Chad you married and you live with. Consult with him about this, make a *joint* decision, and help him understand that the two of you will have to present a united front to the parents on this subject. If his parents are giving you a problem, this means *he* will have to intercede on your behalf and communicate very clearly with his parents. For most men under 40 I've known, this can be very difficult, but in the interests of keeping their marriage, men sometimes have to grow a spine. Sometimes that means the wife has to insist he grow one. Hopefully you won't have any problems like this.

I love him to death, but he's a real jellyfish when it comes to his parents. I don't blame him, since they are very intimidating (they have the typical rich intellectual snob attitude). It's kind of funny when I think about it - his father is the smartest man I know, and pulled a business out from the gutter and made it into a huge empire, all without a college degree. His mother on the other hand went to college and got a degree in phys ed, and what does she do with herself? She plays golf in the spring, skiis in the winter, and cooks. Oh, and thumbs her nose at people who don't have as much money as she does. I suppose that's my argument right there. That, and pointing out that sending me to college would be a waste of her money. XD

 

[robtex]

I don't have time (cause of work) to articulate a detailed opinion right now but I do need some clairifcation if that is possilbe. What are you planning to do in life? What degree are you planning to pursue and how do you link it to that career? What is your deadline for having kids and what is your deadline, should you proceed, with college for getting a degree? Are the two goals compatable?


footnote:
Lastly just a fact you may be interested in. Only 15-16 % of the US population (roughly ) has a 4 year degree. The numbers are climbing slowly but it is the norm not to have a degree as opposed to have one. http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2002-06-05-education-census.htm

 

[MaddLlama]

I don't have time (cause of work) to articulate a detailed opinion right now but I do need some clairifcation if that is possilbe. What are you planning to do in life? What degree are you planning to pursue and how do you link it to that career? What is your deadline for having kids and what is your deadline, should you proceed, with college for getting a degree? Are the two goals compatable?

Umm...well really I don't know. I know a few things for sure: I want to have children, I want to learn to speak Japanese, I like making crafty things, and I love running my little business. If I were to get a degree, it would be in Sociology (because it apparently is a better degree for busniess than a business degree, and I would use it to help the business I already have), and in Asian Studies to learn Japanese. If I can speak Japanese, I would do translation for magazines/newspapers and other anime related endeavors. My issue with actually doing these things is that I can work my business and read Newtype Japan without either of those degrees.
Right now we don't have the means to start having children, nor am I mentally prepared for it yet. The plan right now is to stay where we are for 2 or 3 years and then get an actual house. Once we settle into said house, I want to start a family. So, figure about 4 years. If I do get a degree, I would want to finish before then.

And, I'm not sure what you mean by compatible.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

A_E: I have a pre-nep, unfortunately. Luckily though, it works in my favor (most of the time). =)

My advice then:

Do want you want to and take no prisoners! :fork: :verymad:

Love him with all your heart, have kid-o's, and go to college if you want to.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Everyone has given such great advice, especially Booko, but my tiny bit of advice is this:




Right now, it seems like you feel that your life has little direction. I highly encourage you to pick up a book called "Wishcraft" by Barbara something-or-other . She does a very good job at helping the reader find some direction and goal-making. Then she gives the reader the "how-to" of tackling these goals one by one. Remember that at 24, you aren't the only person in the entire world who isn't sure what she wants to do with her life that is considered worthwhile. There are people at 60 who feel that way, too. Many times, it is major transitions in life that put a shock in us and we then need to adapt. Marriage, children, divorce, moving to a new location, career change, death of a spouse or child..............all of these are major causes of stress because of their abrupt change in lifestyle.



Just take it easy. You're being awfully hard on yourself, and that is allowing other people's opinions on your life influence your attitude.




Peace,
Mystic

 

[robtex]

Umm...well really I don't know. I know a few things for sure: I want to have children, I want to learn to speak Japanese, Sociology (because it apparently is a better degree for busniess than a business degree,

I have a business degree and switched from a sociology degree because the accounting, finance and marketing classes were more useful (which turned out to be true) in a business envirorment than having knowledge of postulations and theories on society structure. However, by contrast, in case you make it a quasi-career to post here sociology will arm you with the right kind of information to make you annoying yet informatable in a debate.

Seriously though....you don't a business degree to run a small business in a community. You need a basic of accounting (aka bookkeeping), and networking skills. The reality is that a business degree doesn't help you in a sales envirorment (which is what being a business person generally translates into) unless you get a license that is congruent to things gained from a degree, like a CPA, loan officer's license, insurance license, ect ect. I have been where you want to go and can tell you that from experience.

I also took one semester of Japanese in college though I retained very little of it. I speak German (though less and less every year) and found the major difference in the idea or sentence structure. In German you can translate words for words but in Japanese the whole language is differntly structured than english that you have to conceptualize entire ideas instead of learning the word for this or that. I learned a bit but was unable to retain much of it due to non-use.

One of my classmates who went on to be a businessman in Japan (lives there today), was more successful due to being in a japanese speaking envirorment. The same thing is happening with my German. It gets rustier and rustier every year due to non-use. My spanish, which I only took one course for in high school, (and the class turned out to be a joke) by contrast, is getting stronger and stronger month by month due to constant practice.

You don't need a college degree to learn Japanese. You could actually just take a college class on the language with no intention of getting a degree in anything. However, unless you practice years after taking the classes on a regular basis don't expect to retain it into your 30's. That isn't a very realistic goal.

For what you listed wanting your degree for I am not confident it will enhance your career in anyway. If you had said you wanted to be an engineer, or a biologists than you have to have the school. If you wanted to be a financial planner, than it would, but for what you are saying you want to do, a few language courses and accouting 1 and 2 will likely help you alot without getting any degree. Sociology, and I say this from experince of being a sociogoy major for two years, will do nada to enhance any business plans you wish to pursue. Really an amazing interesting major but not applications to business.

I have landed jobs where my degree applied and I have landed jobs where the employer only wanted those who were degreed but, if you have your thing going maybe that doesnt' apply to you? The time you would be spending in college maybe would be better applied to networking within your target market and building market share.

Feel it out though..You don't have to go for broke and say college degree or nuttin. Enroll in Japanese speaking 1 and accounting 1. Or just one or the the other and feel it out. I can tell you right now, having taken both those courses down here in Texas you are in for one hell of ride when you do. Those are both very intense courses no matter where you take them.

And, I'm not sure what you mean by compatible.

compatible means can you be a mom and a college student. I can't answer that as a guy but I can tell you I never met a college mom who had an infant, not even once in a college with a student population of 20k plus however, I did meet women who got pregnant and dropped out for that reason. As a matter of fact teenage pregnancy has an adverse drop out rate on high school students. College by contrast is much much more difficult in intensity and amount of material.

 

[Booko]

I have a shelf full of dictionaries and workbooks that I can read and do on my own and then I can take the board certification test whenever I want.

Hey....being board certified in anything is an accomplishment.

I guess what it really comes down to is not wanting to upset my family and myself. I feel like a failure, and they probably will too.

Then you need to deal with this first, before you can really proceed much further. When you can understand why you feel like a failure, and why that may or may not be accurate, other things will look very different.

Also, if you feel like a failure, people will treat you like you are. Maybe that's why you're getting some of this static?

Also, bear in mind that your family now is you and your husband -- not your parents.

Oh, and on the subject of my mil.....just to put it into perspective, she has a degree in phys ed. Yeah, physical health is good, but someone's really got to drill it into my head that she's in no position to be chiding me about intellectual persuits. Now...if I could only say that to her...

That's your husband's job!

I have to kinda laff about this one, because my good friend is in exactly the same thing with her mil. She complained because my friend had no college degree. My friend's husband replied, "She has 1.5 years of community college, just like you mom." :faint:

My mother never finished college before I was born, and I think she was really unhappy about it. She only just finished last year and now she's teaching. She doesn't want me to "end up like her", but at the same time if I get a degree in something now and have kids before I can use it, what guarantee do I have that 15 years from then, I'm going to want to get a job in that field? That's a lot of time to change my mind, which I do a lot.

IOW, she's projecting her fears on you, though your situation is not hers. It would be really worth it to have a tete-a-tete with Mom on this one. If she understands that she's acting out of her own fears and disappointments, and that you are not her, she may be able to shift away from pushing you in this direction.

Ask her why she fears you may end up like her. And ask her why "ending up like her" is such a problem. Does your mom feel like a failure? Why? Is it just to say she failed? It seems she succeeded at raising a child very well...not much of a failure there I'd say.

Success <> money

Booko: (yeah sorry I'm too lazy to make seperate posts today... XD )

Sheesh...it takes more work to combine them.

This is part of the problem - I don't actually know what I want to do. This unfortunately doesn't make things any easier to explain to anyone.

Ah, but you DO know what you want to do. You said it yourself -- you want to have children.

You're working at the business. You're being a productive member of the family and society. What else can anyone ask of you? What else should you be doing?

I do think though, if you can understand why you feel a failure, a path will open up for you. To try and find that path before you remove the fog in your life is not always the best. Don't rush it.

I love him to death, but he's a real jellyfish when it comes to his parents. I don't blame him, since they are very intimidating (they have the typical rich intellectual snob attitude). It's kind of funny when I think about it - his father is the smartest man I know, and pulled a business out from the gutter and made it into a huge empire, all without a college degree. His mother on the other hand went to college and got a degree in phys ed, and what does she do with herself? She plays golf in the spring, skiis in the winter, and cooks. Oh, and thumbs her nose at people who don't have as much money as she does. I suppose that's my argument right there. That, and pointing out that sending me to college would be a waste of her money. XD

This is the perennial problem with husbands, ML. I had this with mine, as did every close girlfriend I've had. Heck, even in ladie's rooms complete strangers comment on this facet of life.

Your husband is a man now. He has his own family. It's time to grow up now and be his own daddy, and stop letting the parents run him.

He needs to grow a spine. He will need help and encouragement from you to do this, and of course, always clear communication. Very clear communication. Men don't do hints, and don't explain too much. If he wants details, he'll ask.

Explain to him, gently, but very clearly, that he is now the man of his family and needs to act like it, and that his job is to protect his wife. Old-fashioned, I know, but human dynamics have not changed in many ways, even though we women are now supposedly "liberated." Ask for his help and explain that it's his job to run interference for his parents, as it's your job to run interference for yours. You have to stand together as a unit, and this is not something you can or should tackle alone.

And for the sake of both of you -- be firm.

It's very hard to stay married to a man you can't respect.

 

[Booko]

Right now, it seems like you feel that your life has little direction. I highly encourage you to pick up a book called "Wishcraft" by Barbara something-or-other .

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345465180/sr=8-1/qid=1155953415/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-0288949-2408618?ie=UTF8

Amazon is a miracle from God.

There are people at 60 who feel that way, too.

Hey, I'm sitting here wondering what I do next, when I get healthy again. I have no clue where to start, other than digging my house out of the wreck it's become after 4 years of pseudo-invalidcy (ooh! A neologism!)

Many times, it is major transitions in life that put a shock in us and we then need to adapt.

Those are also the greatest times of opportunity for growth.

My calamity is My providence, outwardly it is fire and vengeance, but inwardly it is light and mercy.

Just take it easy. You're being awfully hard on yourself, and that is allowing other people's opinions on your life influence your attitude.

:yes:

 

[dannisayz]

You know my feelings on this dear. I love you dearly and so does Chad. I support you and so do the rest of us no matter what you do. I'm here if you need me and I'll drive to you if necessary. I don't care if it's a work night.