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Cognitive Fixation When Thinking About God

Ellen Brown

Well-Known Member
It is sad and frustrating when people become fixated with seeing God in one way only. Using one model, I could see why some would decide that God and all his aspects are one Deity. Using another, more literal model one could see that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are three beings, though I have not settled on a model for the Holy Spirit. Then humans form various factions, and losing emotional control become all shouty about it.


Perhaps we are innately fearful of uncertainty, so we attempt to rigidly define things like the identity of the Creator. I am sad that humans think they have progressed as they gave up the personal relationship with the Creator or his representatives, like Abraham, the friend of God, had in favor of someone that levels ridiculous things like Original Sin, the need for Atonement, and attempts to over define the purpose of Jesus the Christ at us.


How can we then begin to build a relationship pleasing to our Creator when we so readily show our disdain for the thoughts of others. How can we be deceitful about our own beliefs, yet insist that our own thoughts are superior, and those who think differently are less than or even evil?


In my own experience, I have actually seen, some Muslims referring to non-Muslims as Kafir and worthy only of death by beheading. Then there were the Baptists and others who insist that the Catholics are evil. Then there are those who take pot shots at Mormons. It is especially angering and distasteful to me when people of another belief lie to me about what they believe.


Myself, I entertain many of the ideas that Muslims have, with the exception of how they view Jesus the Christ. I loved the modesty and concealment of a Muslim woman. Yet, I sit in a Christian Church that is Pentecostal on Sunday, where they get a lot right, yet do things that feel silly to me too. I go there to worship the Creator, and to receive the sacrament, the rest just passes by. And yes, my view of the Creator is fluid, and to me is as it should be.
 
It is human nature for humans to form groups of similar behavior and beliefs. Then you have the fact that human's hate to admit when their wrong so the other groups have to be wrong so they can be right. Conflict is in our nature even in our peaceful nations that we have now.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
It is sad and frustrating when people become fixated with seeing God in one way only. Using one model, I could see why some would decide that God and all his aspects are one Deity. Using another, more literal model one could see that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are three beings, though I have not settled on a model for the Holy Spirit. Then humans form various factions, and losing emotional control become all shouty about it.


Perhaps we are innately fearful of uncertainty, so we attempt to rigidly define things like the identity of the Creator. I am sad that humans think they have progressed as they gave up the personal relationship with the Creator or his representatives, like Abraham, the friend of God, had in favor of someone that levels ridiculous things like Original Sin, the need for Atonement, and attempts to over define the purpose of Jesus the Christ at us.


How can we then begin to build a relationship pleasing to our Creator when we so readily show our disdain for the thoughts of others. How can we be deceitful about our own beliefs, yet insist that our own thoughts are superior, and those who think differently are less than or even evil?


In my own experience, I have actually seen, some Muslims referring to non-Muslims as Kafir and worthy only of death by beheading. Then there were the Baptists and others who insist that the Catholics are evil. Then there are those who take pot shots at Mormons. It is especially angering and distasteful to me when people of another belief lie to me about what they believe.


Myself, I entertain many of the ideas that Muslims have, with the exception of how they view Jesus the Christ. I loved the modesty and concealment of a Muslim woman. Yet, I sit in a Christian Church that is Pentecostal on Sunday, where they get a lot right, yet do things that feel silly to me too. I go there to worship the Creator, and to receive the sacrament, the rest just passes by. And yes, my view of the Creator is fluid, and to me is as it should be.

Part of why I'm an atheist is because I make no assumption about God. I mean what does man really know? Some have claimed this knowledge, can we trust them. Can we trust anyone that we don't really know.

I don't know where one begins and ends to question man's knowledge about God. Which prophets of which religion does one find trustworthy and why? Do we trust ourselves or some charismatic religious leader? I tried to trust many, I tried to trust myself where it comes to knowing about God. I found man not to be trustworthy. So what really is there to base belief on?
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
My basic belief from the OP perspective is that there are "many rivers which lead to the sea". I part company with fanatics but otherwise any path is fine with me. I also find my own enhanced by seeing others.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Part of why I'm an atheist is because I make no assumption about God. I mean what does man really know? Some have claimed this knowledge, can we trust them. Can we trust anyone that we don't really know.
Yeah, but you have made an assumption and that is that God doesn't exist. If you truly don't make any assumptions, wouldn't that make you more of an agnostic.

I don't personally feel comfortable around people who claim knowledge either -- which might be a big part of the reason why I am not comfortable around members of my own Church. Claiming knowledge is a big deal in Mormonism and I've been uncomfortable with the concept ever since I was a small child.

I don't know where one begins and ends to question man's knowledge about God. Which prophets of which religion does one find trustworthy and why? Do we trust ourselves or some charismatic religious leader? I tried to trust many, I tried to trust myself where it comes to knowing about God. I found man not to be trustworthy. So what really is there to base belief on?
You know what I base most of my belief on? Myself. I strongly believe in God, and have even tried convincing myself that He doesn't exist; I simply can't do it. I basically determine what I'm going to believe based upon what makes sense to me. And what makes sense to me is not debatable. Since it's not, I don't feel compelled to defend myself against those who dismiss my beliefs as nonsense and I don't feel driven to make anybody else believe as I do.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
Which prophets of which religion does one find trustworthy and why? Do we trust ourselves or some charismatic religious leader? I tried to trust many, I tried to trust myself where it comes to knowing about God. I found man not to be trustworthy. So what really is there to base belief on?

That to me is not about being an atheist or a theist but questioning how to conduct a search for truth. And I agree it's a very tricky question.

My personal sense is that believers agree that there is something beyond the purely material. I found myself agreeing with that basic statement years ago.

Then to me it became not about answers but about the journey to find answers. And it became very individual. For some trusting that one has found a good teacher is vital. For others, deciding what is helpful for an individual without a guide is essential.

So rather than ask who is really trustworthy, how about asking yourself about what might be useful for you to explore today?
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
I don't personally feel comfortable around people who claim knowledge either

There are very very very few that I to me know God. Those are figures like Jesus, Buddha, Krishna as well as those like St. Francis of Assisi, Moses, Baal Shem Tov, Rumi and some others.

Others who make that claim can be totally sincere but mistaken or pretending to something that they aren't. Hence I'm extremely reluctant to give credence to anyone who claims Divine Knowledge.
 

Ellen Brown

Well-Known Member
Part of why I'm an atheist is because I make no assumption about God. I mean what does man really know? Some have claimed this knowledge, can we trust them. Can we trust anyone that we don't really know.

I don't know where one begins and ends to question man's knowledge about God. Which prophets of which religion does one find trustworthy and why? Do we trust ourselves or some charismatic religious leader? I tried to trust many, I tried to trust myself where it comes to knowing about God. I found man not to be trustworthy. So what really is there to base belief on?


I believed in a Creator, or Defining Force in the universe when I was 12, and well remember the day, and where I was. It was NOT church, but in a huge Green House, shoveling dirt to go into flower beds to grow Carnations. The idea that someone had to "author" what I could see around me just seemed logical. In the following years, there was often great emotional and physical abuse, and I finally understood that I was unsuitable, and the pain and punishment was sent by this Creator. When I approached the "God People", they brusquely admonished to depart from my ways of sin, no love there. In my own mind, I was just trying to survive emotionally and physically. In my mid teens I was used to things, but growing more angry every day, and finally understood that swearing a blue streak was one way to act out that bore relatively little physical threat. By then anyone who approached me about God, I had words for ...

It was not until my late 20's, when I had survived a stint in the military, and gotten married, that we had two innocent little children running around that I became fearful of damaging them as I had been. One night at sunset, I stood on the porch watching the sun sink, and listening to a song by Peggy Lee, "Is that all there is"? It was then that I wondered if there was any help for a very damaged woman trying to raise those children, hoping not to inflict upon them, what had happened to me. In the next weeks "things happened", and I began life as a Christian as defined by someone who'd had the sense and compassion to say "Jesus loves you" and not insist that I depart from my life of sin and debauchery.

I will not insist that you believe as I do because each person's path is unique. A life believing in a Creator is full of pain and suffering, and also joy and healing. I can not say what the Godly path for everyone is.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
Yeah, but you have made an assumption and that is that God doesn't exist. If you truly don't make any assumptions, wouldn't that make you more of an agnostic.

I'm one of those atheist that see the term as meaning lacking a theistic belief. Since I'm not making assumption, I've nothing to base a theistic belief on.

I don't personally feel comfortable around people who claim knowledge either -- which might be a big part of the reason why I am not comfortable around members of my own Church. Claiming knowledge is a big deal in Mormonism and I've been uncomfortable with the concept ever since I was a small child.

The few Mormons of come across are really nice folks. Though I had a few friends who were ex-mormon who left because of issues they had with the Church.

You know what I base most of my belief on? Myself. I strongly believe in God, and have even tried convincing myself that He doesn't exist; I simply can't do it. I basically determine what I'm going to believe based upon what makes sense to me. And what makes sense to me is not debatable. Since it's not, I don't feel compelled to defend myself against those who dismiss my beliefs as nonsense and I don't feel driven to make anybody else believe as I do.

I don't feel compelled to get others to believe as I do but I suppose I do feel compelled to get people to question what they accept as knowledge.

I've no problem finding anecdotal reason to believe in God. The problem is, it didn't matter what belief I found myself involved with. Pagan, New Age, Eastern. So either it doesn't matter what you believe as long as you believe you'll experience/find a relationship with God. Or, belief is simply a catalyst which allows the subconscious mind to create the experience of divine presence.

Although I now think not everyone is mentally wired for a religion experience. I've known some who have tried really really hard and have found nothing.

People have good reason not to trust what they've experienced IMO. Voices, visions, dreams, feelings. People hear God telling them to kill their children for example. I'm sure they found their experience with God trustworthy.

I found it safer to not trust the personal religious experience.
 

David T

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Part of why I'm an atheist is because I make no assumption about God. I mean what does man really know? Some have claimed this knowledge, can we trust them. Can we trust anyone that we don't really know.

I don't know where one begins and ends to question man's knowledge about God. Which prophets of which religion does one find trustworthy and why? Do we trust ourselves or some charismatic religious leader? I tried to trust many, I tried to trust myself where it comes to knowing about God. I found man not to be trustworthy. So what really is there to base belief on?
Bad ideas about experiences they have no clue about..
Dont need science
Dont need religion
A simple walk in the forest reveals that to anyone paying attention.

too much science is bad religion, to much religion is bad science.. In that case they both are nutty and are kindred spirits.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Although I now think not everyone is mentally wired for a religion experience. I've known some who have tried really really hard and have found nothing.
I couldn't agree more. I genuinely believe that some of us are wired for belief in God and some of us are wired for non-belief.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
In my 45 years as a Hindu, I can't honestly remember a single time when I talked with anyone besides my better half about God. It's all been about worshiping, or being with others together in God's presence. What is there to say?
 
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