City of Enoch question.

[madhatter85]

I think I am missing something or may not understand something fully.

The inhabitants of the City of Enoch were transfigured and taken into God's presence. This happened before the Atonement and Resurrection took place. So does that mean God granted them something similar to eternal life on a provisional basis as he knew the atonement would take effect int he future? I know there is a difference between transfiguration and resurrection, But are they just two means to the same end, but transfiguration merely requires extreme righteousness? Were they merely allowed to tarry in paradise in their physical bodies until the resurrection came? I know it is reconciled somehow but I think I am missing something somewhere.

 

[Sola'lor]

Well there must be a place in God's presence that is not the Celestial Kingdom. Since none of us can enter into the Celestial Kingdom until after the Final Judgement. This would be the same place that resurrected beings live. I think the Bible dictionary calls this place Heaven.

But seeing as how the Pre-mortal life and the Celestial Kingdom are the same place. Then this third location could be the same place. What would seperate them is the different states of the beings there.

Pre-mortal Life - Spirits
"Heaven" - Transfigured, Resurrected
Celestial Kingdom - Exalted

 

[SoyLeche]

But seeing as how the Pre-mortal life and the Celestial Kingdom are the same place.

Hadn't heard that one before

 

[SoyLeche]

I think I am missing something or may not understand something fully.

The inhabitants of the City of Enoch were transfigured and taken into God's presence. This happened before the Atonement and Resurrection took place. So does that mean God granted them something similar to eternal life on a provisional basis as he knew the atonement would take effect int he future? I know there is a difference between transfiguration and resurrection, But are they just two means to the same end, but transfiguration merely requires extreme righteousness? Were they merely allowed to tarry in paradise in their physical bodies until the resurrection came? I know it is reconciled somehow but I think I am missing something somewhere.

Probably a similar thing as happened to the 3 Nephites. See 3 Nephi 28:13ish to the end, particularly 39 and 40.

An additional change (Resurrection) will need to be made (probalby has been made by now).

 

[Sola'lor]

Hadn't heard that one before

You haven't? Hmm.

Pre-mortal life was/is where God dwells.
The Celetsial Kingdom is where God dwells.

The only real difference is that state of the beings living there.

 

[madhatter85]

[FONT=&quot]So we figured it out in the temple today! We were on a veil assignment for our stake today and we were discussing this in between sessions.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]God transfigured The City of Enoch because if they had been allowed to flourish and stay on the earth the plan of salvation would have been frustrated as there would be nobody wicked enough to crucify our savior.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Transfiguration accomplishes the same effect as the resurrection. Except for the fact that transfiguration comes by way of extreme righteousness as the Lord sees fit for his purposes.[/FONT]

 

[SoyLeche]

[FONT=&quot]So we figured it out in the temple today! We were on a veil assignment for our stake today and we were discussing this in between sessions.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]God transfigured The City of Enoch because if they had been allowed to flourish and stay on the earth the plan of salvation would have been frustrated as there would be nobody wicked enough to crucify our savior.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Transfiguration accomplishes the same effect as the resurrection. Except for the fact that transfiguration comes by way of extreme righteousness as the Lord sees fit for his purposes.[/FONT]

Transfigured beings still require a ressurection, so it they obviously don't accomplish the same effect.

 

[madhatter85]

Transfigured beings still require a ressurection, so it they obviously don't accomplish the same effect.

But there are those that will be changed in the "twinkling of an eye"
Word Search: twinkling of an eye
if you read in the D&C there will be the saints who are caught up in heaven to meet God who will be changed in the twinkling of an eye "and blessed in the kingdom of [the] Father."

This suggests that those who are transfigured to not require resurrection as God has changed them to a post-resurrected state. However, this can only come of extreme righteousness. Everyone else falls under the power of the resurrection.

 

[Sola'lor]

I finally remembered the word. Translated!

Transfiguring is a temporary change in state. Joseph Smith was transfigured to be able withstand the glory of God.

The City of Enoch was translated. Meaning permenantly changed to an immortal state. Usually associated with being taken into heaven.

Transfigured beings need a ressurection. Translated beings do not.

 

[madhatter85]

I finally remembered teh word. Translated!

Transfiguring is a temporary change in state. Joseph Smith was transfigured to be able withstand the glory of God.

The City of Enoch was translated. Meaning permenantly changed to an immortal state. Usually associated with being taken into heaven.

Transfigured beings need a ressurection. Translated beings do not.

That's what i mean. I forgot about translated. yeah that makes more sense.

 

[Sola'lor]

Yeah I knew there were two "trans" words that were had those definintions. I just couldn't remember translated.

 

[SoyLeche]

Transfigured beings need a ressurection. Translated beings do not.

Guide to the Scriptures: Translated Beings

Persons who are changed so that they do not experience pain or death until their resurrection to immortality

 

[Sola'lor]

So how can you not experience death until your resurrection when you must die first in order to be resurrected?

 

[SoyLeche]

So how can you not experience death until your resurrection when you must die first in order to be resurrected?

Who says you have to die first in order to be resurrected?

 

[Sola'lor]

Resurrection:

–noun
1.the act of rising from the dead.
2.(initial capital letter

) the rising of Christ after His death and burial.
3.(initial capital letter

) the rising of the dead on Judgment Day.
4.the state of those risen from the dead.
5.a rising again, as from decay, disuse, etc.; revival.
6.Christian Science. a rising above mortality through the understanding of spiritual life as demonstrated by Jesus Christ.

 

[SoyLeche]

I'm not sure why we are even still arguing about this, but...

Translated Beings (Note: this is from the Encyclopedia of Mormonism, so while not doctrinally binding in and of itself, it's a bit moreso than Websters is)

Translated beings are not resurrected beings, though all translated beings either have since been or yet will be resurrected or "changed in the twinkling of an eye" to a resurrected state (3 Ne. 28:8). In effect, this last change is their death, and they therefore receive what amounts to an instantaneous death and resurrection. Resurrection is a step beyond translation, and persons translated prior to the resurrection of Christ were resurrected with him (cf. D&C 133:54-55); it is expected that those translated since Christ's resurrection will be resurrected at his second coming.

Also:

the Prophet Joseph Smith explained the role of translated beings thus: "Many have supposed that the doctrine of translation was a doctrine whereby men were taken immediately into the presence of God, and into an eternal fullness, but this is a mistaken idea. Their place of habitation is that of the terrestrial order, and a place prepared for such characters He held in reserve to be ministering angels unto many planets, and who as yet have not entered into so great a fullness as those who are resurrected from the dead" (TPJS, p. 170).

 

[DavyCrocket2003]

I finally remembered the word. Translated!

Transfiguring is a temporary change in state. Joseph Smith was transfigured to be able withstand the glory of God.

The City of Enoch was translated. Meaning permenantly changed to an immortal state. Usually associated with being taken into heaven.

Transfigured beings need a ressurection. Translated beings do not.

I am pretty sure that translated beings still need to be resurrected. I think the three Nephites were translated. This is Moroni's description of what happens to them:

36 And now behold, as I spake concerning those whom the Lord hath chosen, yea, even three who were caught up into the heavens, that I knew not whether they were acleansed from bmortality to immortality—
37 But behold, since I wrote, I have inquired of the Lord, and he hath made it manifest unto me that there must needs be a change wrought upon their bodies, or else it needs be that they must taste of death;
38 Therefore, that they might not taste of death there was a change wrought upon their bodies, that they might not suffer pain nor sorrow save it were for the sins of the world.
39 Now this change was not equal to that which shall take place at the last day; but there was a change wrought upon them, insomuch that Satan could have no power over them, that he could not tempt them; and they were sanctified in the flesh, that they were holy, and that the powers of the earth could not hold them.
40 And in this state they were to remain until the judgment day of Christ; and at that day they were to receive a greater change, and to be received into the kingdom of the Father to go no more out, but to dwell with God eternally in the heavens.

So it seems that a change takes place, permanently, but it's not resurrection.

 

[Sola'lor]

Ok well whatever the word is.

Next question. What do you think about the theory that the gulf of mexico was where the City of Enoch used to be?