sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
It supports Luke largely because the two share two common sources. I doubt you could say that about BOM writings. Max Lucado supports scripture, too. But his writings aren't scriptural.
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Christians: What in this Book do you Disagree With?
- Thread starter DeepShadow
- Start date
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
If it's such great teaching, why isn't it doctrine???
tomspug
Absorbant
Scott C. in regards to the passages you quoted, I think I'm just dropping the subject, because I don't think anyone gets what I'm talking about. All of the passages you quoted were completely doctrinal and had nothing to do with your personal spiritual journey. Not only that, but you quoted doctrines that conflict with my own personal beliefs, which was the exact opposite of what I asked for.
Scott C.
Just one guy
Sorry they were not what you were looking for. But, actually the teachings of 2 Ne 2 have deeply inspired my life, as I've considered the trials and challenges of life. The profound understanding I have from 2 Ne 2 concerning the reasons for the fall and the reasons for my existence in mortality, are very inspiring and uplifting to me. I thank God that he provided that chapter for me.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
On the contrary, I believe that the writings in The Book of Mormon come from the same ultimate source as those in the Bible. I realize you don't, but the fact that I do would explain why I believe both to be scripture.
No they're not, but then they don't claim to be.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
It's a lesson manual, actually. Its purpose is to explain LDS doctrine to new members of the Church.
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Let's be real clear about what we mean. First of all, I never said that the BOM wasn't "of God." I think that the sacred writings of other religions are "of God," too, but they're not part of my tradition. A map for one route won't work for a different route, even if both routes are headed for the same destination.
"Sources" means that the writings are not completely original -- that Luke uses Mark and Q as source material. That source material is common to Matthew, as well, which is why the two "support" each other (although for different reasons -- and the two have different agendas). The BOM has no such souce material in common with any Biblical scripture. LIke Max Lucado's stuff. While it may be interesting, informative, good for reflection, supportive of Biblical precept, it is not scripture, IMO.
tomspug
Absorbant
So... what you teach new members ISN'T doctrine? You fill them in on that later?
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Well, come to think of it, I never said you did.
Good analogy.
I see what you're saying. Actually, the Nephites had a special affinity for Isaiah and so they took copies of his writings with them when they left the Holy Land. With the exception of where the Book of Mormon refers to them, you are right. I don't really see how that factor would disqualify the Book of Mormon from being scripture, though.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Are you serious?
Francine
Well-Known Member
No choice. Sometimes doctrines are so new they weren't even doctrines when the new members first joined.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Obviously you have one in mind.
Francine
Well-Known Member
In the introduction to the Book of Mormon, before 2006 it said the Lamanites were the principal ancestors of the American Indians. After 2006 it said the Lamanites were among the ancestors of the American Indians.
dawny0826
Mother Heathen
I've read the first lesson. "Our Father in Heaven"
I do believe, for the most part that preachers, teachers, reverends, etc. are called by God to serve. I do not believe that it is necessary for one to be called by prophecy.
It's my belief that the believer is given the authority by Christ Jesus to preach the gospel and carry out the Great Commission.
"And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name, they will cast out demons: they will speak with new tongues..."
Who are THEY? Believers. Though Christ, in Mark 16:14-18 was addressing his disciples, He was telling them that WE would "take up serpents: and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."
It's my belief that Christians are disciples of Christ. Some of us are called to preach to masses and congregations but we are ALL responsible for preaching the gospel and carrying out the Great Commission.
Articles of Faith 1 - #9 "...He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the kingdom of God."
I don't have biblical justification to support my objection to this statement. I disagree with the notion that God has much more to reveal to Christians, collectively. I speak in tongues. I believe that there are true prophets but I don't believe that they will reveal anything that will change or expound upon what has already been established regarding our Salvation. We've been given what we need to find Christ.
I do however, believe that God reveals much to us personally, as we grow in Jesus Christ.
I do believe that God WAS flesh and bone...as Jesus Christ. I believe God, our Heavenly Father is spirit. Though we are made in his likeness, I believe this applies to the spiritual man, not the physical man. I believe God became one of us as Christ. He BECAME His own creation of flesh and bone.
I have a very hard time trusting Joseph Smith's account, within his history (History 1). I'm a Trinitarian, though, so this is probably just par for the course.
Has anyone ever seen God?
I do believe, for the most part that preachers, teachers, reverends, etc. are called by God to serve. I do not believe that it is necessary for one to be called by prophecy.
It's my belief that the believer is given the authority by Christ Jesus to preach the gospel and carry out the Great Commission.
"And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name, they will cast out demons: they will speak with new tongues..."
Who are THEY? Believers. Though Christ, in Mark 16:14-18 was addressing his disciples, He was telling them that WE would "take up serpents: and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."
It's my belief that Christians are disciples of Christ. Some of us are called to preach to masses and congregations but we are ALL responsible for preaching the gospel and carrying out the Great Commission.
Articles of Faith 1 - #9 "...He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the kingdom of God."
I don't have biblical justification to support my objection to this statement. I disagree with the notion that God has much more to reveal to Christians, collectively. I speak in tongues. I believe that there are true prophets but I don't believe that they will reveal anything that will change or expound upon what has already been established regarding our Salvation. We've been given what we need to find Christ.
I do however, believe that God reveals much to us personally, as we grow in Jesus Christ.
I do believe that God WAS flesh and bone...as Jesus Christ. I believe God, our Heavenly Father is spirit. Though we are made in his likeness, I believe this applies to the spiritual man, not the physical man. I believe God became one of us as Christ. He BECAME His own creation of flesh and bone.
I have a very hard time trusting Joseph Smith's account, within his history (History 1). I'm a Trinitarian, though, so this is probably just par for the course.
Has anyone ever seen God?
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
The introduction to the Book of Mormon was written to give the reader some background into the people whose history is recorded in the book. Regardless of whether the Lamanites were the principal ancestors of the American Indians or merely among the ancestors of the American Indians, the doctrines contained within the pages of the book are the same. That bone you're trying to pick is getting pretty dry.
DeepShadow
White Crow
I don't see how this would prevent us from teaching the rest of the doctrine, which we do.
Francine
Well-Known Member
Check. Those ever-elusive LDS doctrines I'm looking for are only found within the book, starting with 1 Nephi 1:1, and not the introduction. I will disregard the Title Page, which says, "The Book of Mormon is an account written by the hand of Mormon upon plates taken from the Plates of Nephi...To come forth by the gift and power of God unto the interpretation thereof..."
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
You hereby have my permission to disregard any portion of the book you wish. Happy now?
Scott C.
Just one guy
ot
The Gospel Principles book is a great reliable source for teaching LDS doctrine. That's why the Church published it. Of course, it's not scripture. It's a lesson manual. That means there might be something in there that is not correct and in a later edition could be corrected. Nevertheless, the Church asks the teachers of the Gospel Principles Sunday School class to use this manual and the scriptures to teach the class. The Church specifically asks these same teachers to not use sources that are not Church publications, such as the private writings of individual members, be they leaders or not.
I would rank LDS publications as follows, in order of certainty as to their correctness:
1. Scriptures
2. Official statements and proclamations of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve
3. Current General Conference addresses
4. Publications of the Church, such as the Gospel Principles Manual.
5. Personal writings (not church publications) of individual members of the Church, be they academics, leaders, or others.
6. Walking down the street with my missionary companion and he says "Hey Elder, did you hear that we believe ..."
9,482,113. Something I read on an anti-Mormon website.
Francine
Well-Known Member
You hereby have my permission to disregard any portion of the book you wish. Happy now?
I just threw the hard copy one in the trash. So much for this.