Christians vow to break smacking law !!!

[TashaN]

Here is the link about the breaking smacking law issue:
http://www.storesonline.com/site/846699/page/846125


And here are proofs from the bible jusifying this act "according to the website" for why they wants to do so:
http://www.storesonline.com/site/846699/page/590391

What do you think, as a parent or as a son/daughter of this?

Is it permissible to punish children physically?

 

[Doktormartini]

I'm a little confused! Are these people saying that they have the right to physically abuse their children because the Bible says to do so?

 

[MaddLlama]

I'm a little confused! Are these people saying that they have the right to physically abuse their children because the Bible says to do so?

Yes, that's exactly what they are saying.

 

[Quiddity]

I would come to no conclusion without getting clarification of:
.....the reasonable use of force to discipline children.

This isn't necessarily child abuse.

 

[TashaN]

Do you think the bible agree with them in this issue or they are just using it as an excuse to prsuade the other devoted christians?

 

[Quiddity]

Do you think the bible agree with them in this issue or they are just using it as an excuse to prsuade the other devoted christians?

I don't even know what their conclusion is without further clarification.

 

[CaptainXeroid]

I don't have a problem with parents giving unruly children a swift smack on the bum or the back of the hand, but striking the child any where else on the body, particularly the head, is child abuse.

I found 2 things mildy amusing about the article. It mentioned that 55 people spoke about the pending bill, and that only 22 did so in support. I guess that means the other 33 opposed it.

Second, it mentioned people in counseling related to childhood traumas. The acts they described are already against the law, and none of them claimed that their parents' discipline was limited to a smack on the bum.

I am 36 and most people my age were spanked as children, and the vast majority have grown up to know right from wrong and stay out of trouble with the law. Sure, none of us liked getting it, but we quickly learned not to do the 'bad thing' that got us spanked again.

The way I see it, the answer is not more laws but more rigorous enforcement of existing laws. Perhaps community organizations could hold group discussions in which expecting parents could talk with experienced parents about the challenges they face. Child abuse is a crime and does cause long term physical and emotional damage to the child, but reasonable corporal punishment is not child abuse.

 

[Booko]

I'm a little confused! Are these people saying that they have the right to physically abuse their children because the Bible says to do so?

Oh, that's hardly unique. We had quite a case of it here in Atlanta a few years back.

The usual quote is "Spare the rod -- spoil the child."

It never occurs to such people that that "rod" is a shepherd's crook, and it is used to tap a sheep who has gone astray to guide him back to the right path. It is NOT used to beat the snot out of the sheep.

 

[CaptainXeroid]

Oh, that's hardly unique. We had quite a case of it here in Atlanta a few years back.

Yes, I remember that one. The reverend of The House of Prayer and other adults were convicted and served jail time for "systematically" abusing children in church.

The usual quote is "Spare the rod -- spoil the child."...

I had a another post ready to submit, but you said it better than I did.:clap So, I'll just add the complimentaryBible version.

Proverbs 13:24 He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him.

 

[Doktormartini]

Yes, that's exactly what they are saying.

Ok well the Bible says to give your first born son to God, stone your children if they disobey, and all this other crazy stuff that I don't see them doing.


This is just stupid and no they shouldn't be able to do it.

 

[TashaN]

I would come to no conclusion without getting clarification of:
.....the reasonable use of force to discipline children.

This isn't necessarily child abuse.

Child abuse is a crime and does cause long term physical and emotional damage to the child, but reasonable corporal punishment is not child abuse.

I agree ..

 

[michel]

Oh, that's hardly unique. We had quite a case of it here in Atlanta a few years back.

The usual quote is "Spare the rod -- spoil the child."

It never occurs to such people that that "rod" is a shepherd's crook, and it is used to tap a sheep who has gone astray to guide him back to the right path. It is NOT used to beat the snot out of the sheep.

Too true.......and 'spoiling' (taken litterally, as in 'giving in to every demand) only makes for more problems in the future.

 

[TashaN]

Oh, that's hardly unique. We had quite a case of it here in Atlanta a few years back.

The usual quote is "Spare the rod -- spoil the child."

It never occurs to such people that that "rod" is a shepherd's crook, and it is used to tap a sheep who has gone astray to guide him back to the right path. It is NOT used to beat the snot out of the sheep.

Frubals ..

 

[TashaN]

Ok well the Bible says to give your first born son to God, stone your children if they disobey, and all this other crazy stuff that I don't see them doing.

Where in the bible does it say so?

 

[Doktormartini]

Where in the bible does it say so?

KJV

Deuteronomy 18: If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chasened him, will not hearken unto them:
19: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;
20: And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
21: And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die; so shalt thou put evil aawy from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.
22: And if a man ihave commited a sin worthy of death, and he be to be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree:
23: His body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged is accursed of God that thy land be not defiled, which the Lord thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.

 

[TashaN]

I guess there is somthing missing in here within the text. Maybe our Christians friends in here might help to make it clear for us.

 

[Fluffy]

I guess there is somthing missing in here within the text. Maybe our Christians friends in here might help to make it clear for us.

Surely Doktormartini has given you the scripture you are looking for?

I think hitting a child equates to child abuse (by hit I mean hit not tap... keep in mind that a child is far more sensitive to pain that an adult, however) and I do not agree with it regardless what the Bible says on the matter.

 

[CaptainXeroid]

I guess there is somthing missing in here within the text. Maybe our Christians friends in here might help to make it clear for us.

I wish I could help, but the passage Doktormartini quoted does not speak to discipline of a child and therefore is not applicable to this thread. Children living at home under their parent's care are highly unlikely to be refered to as gluttons or drunkards, so it is more likely this passage speaks to parents of a grown son who has strayed from what his parents taught him.

BTW, he left off the chapter, so what he cited is Deut 21:18-23.

 

[kateyes]

A swat on the rear or a slap on the hand--if a far cry from child abuse and never did a child any harm. Clearly I do not believe in beating a child--that is child abuse. But frankly I got a few swats as a child--and generally that is exactly what was needed to get my attention. I was never struck with anything other than an open hand--and would never strike a child with anything other than that myself. I have seen and known a good number of children who would have benefited from a swat now and again--vs a "time out". I do not think ANYONE including children and animals should be struck on the head, or anywhere other than the rear end or hand.

 

[Scuba Pete]

I don't buy the theory that corporal punishment by the parent is automatically child abuse. Spankings were a part of the Murray household and my kids seem to have turned out fine. In fact, I would imagine that they feel that they "earned" their stripes.

To that, I would add the caveat, that abusive parents are rarely only physically so. Mental abuse as well as physical abuse that leaves scars or injuries should be expressly forbidden. As someone recently pointed out, we require a license to operate a motor vehicle, but there is NO SUCH requirement for being a parent. Which is really harder to do?