Christians Shun

[Brickjectivity]

This confuses me a bit. If children and individual men do not have to be informed and can hang out with the person then what is shunning really?

I'm not sure there is practical way for Christians to implement cutting off in the same way that its presented in the Torah. We don't practice the Torah. We don't have the same lifestyle. (Everybody living in a village and never outside walking distance.) If I let you tell me who I may and may not take communion at my home then that is a problem. If on the other hand the elders (not kids but real elders) who are trustworthy proven people say that person X is not welcome at the assembly then that is another thing. That is their duty. It doesn't extend to my kitchen. My kitchen is in my home, and its my decision who is welcomed. Exclusion from the assembly, from the liturgy proper, that is enough of a rebuke. Its up to me in that case to either fellowship or not outside of the assembly. If that expelled person comes into my kitchen and tries to argue against their expulsion then its up to me to kick them out of my kitchen, but its not automatic.

 

[Samael_Khan]

I had a serious Mental Breakdown because of PTSD, and our Government's actions aggravated it. The church said I had fallen deep into sin, and started very painful meetings. I left, but then years later they said their actions were inappropriate.

Clearly very inappropriate! Instead of understanding and helping you they condemned you.

 

[Samael_Khan]

I'm not sure there is practical way for Christians to implement cutting off in the same way that its presented in the Torah. We don't practice the Torah. We don't have the same lifestyle. (Everybody living in a village and never outside walking distance.) If I let you tell me who I may and may not take communion at my home then that is a problem. If on the other hand the elders (not kids but real elders) who are trustworthy proven people say that person X is not welcome at the assembly then that is another thing. That is their duty. It doesn't extend to my kitchen. My kitchen is in my home, and its my decision who is welcomed. Exclusion from the assembly, from the liturgy proper, that is enough of a rebuke. Its up to me in that case to either fellowship or not outside of the assembly. If that expelled person comes into my kitchen and tries to argue against their expulsion then its up to me to kick them out of my kitchen, but its not automatic.

Thanks very much for that response. That clears it up.

 

[Uncommon Sense]

Hi Guys,

In a few threads I have brought up the issue of shunning.

Therefore I would like to get others opinion on the bibles view of the issue:

What scriptures say that Christians should shun/excommunicate/disfellowship ex-Christians?

Do you understand excommunicating and disfellowshipping members or ex members of Christianity to mean that one mustn't even talk to them even it is a family member?

And do the scriptures the pro-shunning Christians use as their foundation for the practice have other alternative interpretations by other groups?

Thanks in advance!

The most comical irony is that most of them shun the “Christ” within them.

 

[Samael_Khan]

The most comical irony is that most of them shun the “Christ” within them.

Thats true!

 

[Muffled]

Apparently the Catholic used to have a form of excommunication called excommunication Vitandi in which members that to shun certain excommunicated members. It was hardly ever used.

Jehovah's Witnesses shun all ex-JWs who are either disfellowshipped because they "unrepentedly" did something wrong (unrepentent as decided by the elders in charge), left because they were disillusioned or speak out against the group and become apostate.

There are many other smaller groups which also shun. But they are fringe groups.

I believe the local JW meeting shunned my brother-in-law. I invited him to come to church with me but he was so brainwashed that any other group wouldn't do.

 

[Muffled]

I was shunned in 2004. In 2016 the church apologized. My forgiveness was hard coming but there is no choice is there?

I don't think I could ever view the people the same way even if they apologized. Forgiveness of course but you can't repair what was broken. It is like a vase you glue back together,;the cracks still show.

 

[Samael_Khan]

I believe the local JW meeting shunned my brother-in-law. I invited him to come to church with me but he was so brainwashed that any other group wouldn't do.

If he was disfellowshipped then that makes sense as leaving wasn't his choice. So it seems like he still believes.

 

[Muffled]

IMHO, that is a very dangerous passage and it has been used often to hurt folk unjustly. It is one of the reasons that I question the existence of part of the NT. Matthew, Mark, Luke and John feel genuine, but from Acts on I view them with a jaundiced eye. The killing of Ananias and Sapphira seem out of character to me. Then the way that most Christians completely ignore the admonishment in 1 Cor 11, and the idea of "Praying constantly" in 1 Thes. 5. It seems that Christians pick and choose...

I believe anyone familiar with the whole gospel should go by this verse also:
Gal 6:1 Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted.

 

[Muffled]

If he was disfellowshipped then that makes sense as leaving wasn't his choice. So it seems like he still believes.

I thought the issue was absurd and I believe I wouldn't have treated a brother Christian in such a shabby manner.

 

[Ellen Brown]

Thats true!

Actually, it seems like everyone "Shuns". Sociologically, we seem to avoid people who are different than us. Perhaps the races on Earth are here to teach us not to do that because when we get space travel, we'll encounter beings vastly different than us?

 

[Samael_Khan]

I thought the issue was absurd and I believe I wouldn't have treated a brother Christian in such a shabby manner.

You should check out their interpretations of the verses they use to justify shunning. It would be cool if you could give me your interpretation of those verse.

 

[Samael_Khan]

Actually, it seems like everyone "Shuns". Sociologically, we seem to avoid people who are different than us. Perhaps the races on Earth are here to teach us not to do that because when we get space travel, we'll encounter beings vastly different than us?

Yeah. I noticed that shunning is sociological. It is one thing to do it on a personal level but its another to institutionalize it though.

I think that shunning also depends on how much knowledge of the world one has. I find that the less exposed a person is to multiple different viewpoints and history then the more likely they are to shun things that are foreign to them. For me studying history of everything I can shows me how everything is connected and the folly of not trying to understand others.

Regarding meeting aliens, I don't even think the teachings are limited to the different races. Even people of the same race shun each other because of different viewpoints.

 

[Ellen Brown]

Yeah. I noticed that shunning is sociological. It is one thing to do it on a personal level but its another to institutionalize it though.

I think that shunning also depends on how much knowledge of the world one has. I find that the less exposed a person is to multiple different viewpoints and history then the more likely they are to shun things that are foreign to them. For me studying history of everything I can shows me how everything is connected and the folly of not trying to understand others.

Regarding meeting aliens, I don't even think the teachings are limited to the different races. Even people of the same race shun each other because of different viewpoints.

AND!!! Our differences can be used against us so easily. When I was young, in the 1950s, going to school I remember hearing that the Native Americans were a Godless race, so He gave North America from them. The murder of millions of the indigenous population was pawned off as God's will. Thankfully, the church is not in Public schools any longer.

Life that we know of here on Earth is Carbon based. What will we do when we encounter life based on something else? James White, a Science Fiction writer wrote several books on the subject in his "Hospital" series.

 

[Samael_Khan]

AND!!! Our differences can be used against us so easily. When I was young, in the 1950s, going to school I remember hearing that the Native Americans were a Godless race, so He gave North America from them. The murder of millions of the indigenous population was pawned off as God's will. Thankfully, the church is not in Public schools any longer.

Life that we know of here on Earth is Carbon based. What will we do when we encounter life based on something else? James White, a Science Fiction writer wrote several books on the subject in his "Hospital" series.

Definitely agree with you there. That idea about spreading Christianity by Europeans to "Godless lands" has been used many times on different continents and islands.

I think that humans will pretty much discriminate against aliens like in District 9.

Ironically, James White is also a name of a famous Christian apologist.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Hi Guys,

In a few threads I have brought up the issue of shunning.

Therefore I would like to get others opinion on the bibles view of the issue:

What scriptures say that Christians should shun/excommunicate/disfellowship ex-Christians?

Do you understand excommunicating and disfellowshipping members or ex members of Christianity to mean that one mustn't even talk to them even it is a family member?

And do the scriptures the pro-shunning Christians use as their foundation for the practice have other alternative interpretations by other groups?

Thanks in advance!

I figure if you were with a group that shunned you, they were never really good to begin with.

I always have religion pegged as a personal thing, not a group thing anyways although I understand social intermingling with people who have like minds.

 

[Ellen Brown]

Definitely agree with you there. That idea about spreading Christianity by Europeans to "Godless lands" has been used many times on different continents and islands.

I think that humans will pretty much discriminate against aliens like in District 9.

Ironically, James White is also a name of a famous Christian apologist.

Here in Americastan, almost all Alien Sci Fi stories pose the poor Aliens as the evil aggressors. Thankfully "Arrival" is much different, and it is Humans that are seen as Adolescent minded fools.

There is another Sci Fi Movie that may be more difficult for you to find. It is loosely called "Attraction" Attraction is a 2017 Russian science-fiction drama film directed by Fyodor Bondarchuk. The plot tells about an extraterrestrial spaceship that crash-lands in the Chertanovo district of Moscow. The Russian government immediately introduces martial law, as the locals grow increasingly angry at the unwelcome guest.

I really liked it a lot.

I saw "District 9" and thought it was very good.

 

[Samael_Khan]

Here in Americastan, almost all Alien Sci Fi stories pose the poor Aliens as the evil aggressors. Thankfully "Arrival" is much different, and it is Humans that are seen as Adolescent minded fools.

There is another Sci Fi Movie that may be more difficult for you to find. It is loosely called "Attraction" Attraction is a 2017 Russian science-fiction drama film directed by Fyodor Bondarchuk. The plot tells about an extraterrestrial spaceship that crash-lands in the Chertanovo district of Moscow. The Russian government immediately introduces martial law, as the locals grow increasingly angry at the unwelcome guest.

I really liked it a lot.

I saw "District 9" and thought it was very good.

I like my sci fi movies. I have seen arrival and it is pretty awesome.

I havent seen attraction though.

Comicbooks actually deal with the idea of ostracism a lot. Especially with the Xmen. They are "alien" in a sense. In fact the Xmen concept was conjured up to address that point.

I think that if we cant get along with each other then we will have a difficult time with aliens

 

[pearl]

I think it was Hawking that believed aliens would not be friendly.

 

[Samael_Khan]

I think it was Hawking that believed aliens would not be friendly.

We actually don't know whether they will be friendly or not. Its all guess work.