Christians: Parable of Sheep & Goats a mandate?

[unklebill]

I am reading the parable of the sheep and goats. Matthew 25:31

In this parable she says that the blessed are those that: feed the hungry, tend the thirsty, invite in the stranger, clothe the unclothed, look after the sick, and visit the prisoners. Cursed are they that do not do these things. (the goats)

This verse is very clear to me other than, who is his intended audience? Is Jesus saying that this is what we as individuals should do? (clearly I believe.) Is he also saying that societies should practice this? I realize that Jesus did not live in a democracy, so could not have envisioned the society we live in.

Do I have any responsibility to urge my soceity to push these policies?

Is the fact that my church advocates for these issues enough? Did Jesus even envision a church?

Crud, this question is getting bigger than I had hoped.

Caveat here: I am not asking a political question here!!!!! If Jesus DOES say that we or society should do these things THEN the "how" will be political. I am not asking "how" to do these things. I am asking what is Jesus saying here to our society?

 

[savagewind]

The scriptures are written for hearers of the Word. So they do not apply to politics at all.

It is good for humankind to take care of humankind by doing those things for others. The illustration of the sheep and the goats has a higher meaning than that I believe. Matthew 25:32 says "all nations will be gathered before him". "All nations" is not limited to a generation. Does it not mean everyone ever born?

The illustration is making known the fact that the will of God is accomplished through MANY people , even the least one. The least of any human being is always left behind. It is a warning not to do that.

It would be a sad state of affairs if the Word is a command to be kind to our neighbors. Are we not created in God's image? If we are , then why would we need The Good News to mean be nice to whoever has less than we do?

I have seen people who think they are believers teach this scripture to mean physically being of assistance to Christian leaders and teachers. We have one leader. We have one teacher helper. John 14:26 It has a spiritual meaning. Revelation 2:7

There are people who confess they are Jesus' brothers in the illustration but WHO is doing the separating? Can someone who is not on the throne (Matthew 25:31) with Christ tell who is a sheep or a goat? Or who are Christ's brothers? Of course not. A person confessing to be Christ's brother is going beyond the things written, isn't he?

There are not two classes of people in the illustration beyond sheep and goats. Someone I read once thinks there are more than two classes. One being Christ's brothers the other one being people separated into the sheep class or the goat class. That is making it much more confusing than it is. The whole world is/has/will be separated into those for life or those for destruction. Two classes, not three.

 

[savagewind]

Wow. It's not just here that I get nothing LOL

Another scripture to help to understand the concept of "let YOU"RE Will be one". It is what Jesus said about John. "there is not a greater one born of women, but the least one in the Kingdom of Heaven is greater than he".

That means John is greatest born of women in the Kingdom of Heaven BUT he is just one least member of it. Because it takes a mighty force to move a mountain. OMG

BUT but that's not what THEY want it to say. I'm pretty sure it's men that made satan, not satan who made man. I mean, you know, LIKE they are. Sorry, off topic.

 

[Super Universe]

I am reading the parable of the sheep and goats. Matthew 25:31

In this parable she says that the blessed are those that: feed the hungry, tend the thirsty, invite in the stranger, clothe the unclothed, look after the sick, and visit the prisoners. Cursed are they that do not do these things. (the goats)

This verse is very clear to me other than, who is his intended audience? Is Jesus saying that this is what we as individuals should do? (clearly I believe.) Is he also saying that societies should practice this? I realize that Jesus did not live in a democracy, so could not have envisioned the society we live in.

Do I have any responsibility to urge my soceity to push these policies?

Is the fact that my church advocates for these issues enough? Did Jesus even envision a church?

Crud, this question is getting bigger than I had hoped.

Caveat here: I am not asking a political question here!!!!! If Jesus DOES say that we or society should do these things THEN the "how" will be political. I am not asking "how" to do these things. I am asking what is Jesus saying here to our society?

The parable is meant for believers to care for others just as much as we worship Christ. Try to make the world a better place, not just for yourself. Jesus intended audience is you, and I, and everyone else who wants to hear the truth.

Jesus was born a human child with special gifts. As He grew He slowly awakened to who He really was. When He began to tour and teach He knew, not only what human society would become, but everything about the universe from beginning to end.
Do you have any responsibility to urge your society to push Jesus policies? To some degree, it really depends on your position. Are you the Mayor of your city? If so, then you do have this responsibility.

What I would say is this, get yourself right first, learn all you can about how the world works and study people as well, then you'll know better. Being an activist is good. Being a knowledgeable activist who also has a sense of what is realistic and what is unrealistic, is great.

 

[Rocky S]

I am reading the parable of the sheep and goats. Matthew 25:31

In this parable she says that the blessed are those that: feed the hungry, tend the thirsty, invite in the stranger, clothe the unclothed, look after the sick, and visit the prisoners. Cursed are they that do not do these things. (the goats)

This verse is very clear to me other than, who is his intended audience? Is Jesus saying that this is what we as individuals should do? (clearly I believe.) Is he also saying that societies should practice this? I realize that Jesus did not live in a democracy, so could not have envisioned the society we live in.

Do I have any responsibility to urge my soceity to push these policies?

Is the fact that my church advocates for these issues enough? Did Jesus even envision a church?

Crud, this question is getting bigger than I had hoped.

Caveat here: I am not asking a political question here!!!!! If Jesus DOES say that we or society should do these things THEN the "how" will be political. I am not asking "how" to do these things. I am asking what is Jesus saying here to our society?

Hi unklebill, This is a passage that is very much misunderstood especially within Christianity. First of all this is not just a parable, this is an actual event. Matt 25:31-46 is a prophecy concerning the judgment of the nations, and Jesus' second advent or coming. This is not a judgment for Christians this is a judgment on how the nations of the word treated Israel during the 7 year reign of the Anti-Christ. Basically the goat nation are those that fallowed the Antichrist during what is known in the bible as "Jacobs' Sorrow" or the great tribulation. The sheep and goat nations are judged on how the nations have treated Israel during this time. In short the sheep nations were good towards Israel because during the tribulation they fed clothed and visited those(the Jewish nation) in prison and took care of the sick etc, basically helped Israel. The goats are the nations that followed the Anti-Christ. Now there is a lot of deep circumstances going on here. One would have to study the book of Daniel and Revelations, as well as Ezekiel and other prophetic books to get the whole picture.

 

[savagewind]

Did Jesus say "My Kingdom is no part of this world"? If he did how is it there are "sheep nations"?

 

[Rocky S]

Did Jesus say "My Kingdom is no part of this world"? If he did how is it there are "sheep nations"?

I am sorry, not sure I understand your rhetorical questions. You may have to elaborate

 

[savagewind]

Hi unklebill, This is a passage that is very much misunderstood especially within Christianity. First of all this is not just a parable, this is an actual event. Matt 25:31-46 is a prophecy concerning the judgment of the nations, and Jesus' second advent or coming. This is not a judgment for Christians this is a judgment on how the nations of the word treated Israel during the 7 year reign of the Anti-Christ. Basically the goat nation are those that fallowed the Antichrist during what is known in the bible as "Jacobs' Sorrow" or the great tribulation. The sheep and goat nations are judged on how the nations have treated Israel during this time. In short the sheep nations were good towards Israel because during the tribulation they fed clothed and visited those(the Jewish nation) in prison and took care of the sick etc, basically helped Israel. The goats are the nations that followed the Anti-Christ. Now there is a lot of deep circumstances going on here. One would have to study the book of Daniel and Revelations, as well as Ezekiel and other prophetic books to get the whole picture.

One flock one shepherd. John 10:16 A great crowd out of ALL nations Revelation 7:9 There is no "nation of sheep". What are "sheep and goat nations"?

 

[unklebill]

Hi unklebill, This is a passage that is very much misunderstood especially within Christianity. First of all this is not just a parable, this is an actual event. Matt 25:31-46 is a prophecy concerning the judgment of the nations, and Jesus' second advent or coming. This is not a judgment for Christians this is a judgment on how the nations of the word treated Israel during the 7 year reign of the Anti-Christ. Basically the goat nation are those that fallowed the Antichrist during what is known in the bible as "Jacobs' Sorrow" or the great tribulation. The sheep and goat nations are judged on how the nations have treated Israel during this time. In short the sheep nations were good towards Israel because during the tribulation they fed clothed and visited those(the Jewish nation) in prison and took care of the sick etc, basically helped Israel. The goats are the nations that followed the Anti-Christ. Now there is a lot of deep circumstances going on here. One would have to study the book of Daniel and Revelations, as well as Ezekiel and other prophetic books to get the whole picture.

Are you saying this is about the end times? You can say that Jesus is speaking metaphorically, which I understand, but this does not strike me as a metaphorical passage. He goes on and on citing examples of the kinds of specific behaviors that he demands of us which are consistent with the specific behaviors that he was a propenent of.

If he had just said, "when I was hungry you did not feed me" I could take that a symbolic speech. However, he goes to great lengths to list many specific behaviors such as, hungry, thirsty, sick, imprissoned.

Seems pretty specific.

 

[savagewind]

I am sorry, not sure I understand your rhetorical questions. You may have to elaborate

What is a "nation" as in "sheep nations" or "goat nations"?

 

[savagewind]

How do I know the illustration is not about the practical help offered to humankind?

It says the sheep doing those things "go off into eternal life". But then WHY is it necessary as told in John 6:53 that one must "eat the flesh and drink the blood" for life?

Which way?

It is also very obvious that many people even atheists and even wicked men do good to others by "feeding, clothing, visiting"...their neighbors. How do those people NOT go "into eternal life?, or do they? If they do then why did Christ suffer?

 

[Rocky S]

Are you saying this is about the end times?

Yes

You can say that Jesus is speaking metaphorically, which I understand, but this does not strike me as a metaphorical passage. He goes on and on citing examples of the kinds of specific behaviors that he demands of us which are consistent with the specific behaviors that he was a propenent of.

The whole chapter is about His second coming: Matt 25:1-13 ,the parable of the 10 virgin's; 13-21, the parable of the talents, which some of this parable speaks of the judgment seat of Christ. Then it all culminates with the illustration of the judgment the nations 31-46. look also in the chapter prier to this one.

If he had just said, "when I was hungry you did not feed me" I could take that a symbolic speech. However, he goes to great lengths to list many specific behaviors such as, hungry, thirsty, sick, imprissoned.

Right, and I believe as christian were are to do these things if we are able, but theses acts don't save, unbelievers do this as well. There are multiple charity organizations that have nothing to do with Christianity. This illustration is after the 7 year tribulation or "Jacob's sorrow" or after Daniel's 70th week. All of this is found in the book of Daniel, Jemimah, Joel and other prophetic books in the old testament. The judgment of the nations takes place after the resurrection of the saints from Adam until when this occurs and the catching up of the church(rapture) see 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17. And after the judgment seat of Christ, and after the battle of Armageddon. This is not a judgment for Christian. I know this is deep as all bible prophecy is, and to be able to explain this is hard to do on a forum. But to be able to explain, I will try to put this in chronological order the best I can, here goes: There is going to be natural man that is going to be allowed to continue in the 1000 year reign of Christ (the sheep nations) those that treated Israel kindly during the 7 year tribulation when the anti Christ comes into power. and makes Israel his capital and proclaims himself to be their messiah. Oh yeah the purpose of the 7 year tribulation is to bring Israel to accepting Christ as messiah. Then after the judgment of the nations, Jesus sets up his kingdom on the earth and makes Jerusalem his capital so to speak, defeats the Antichrist and the nations that fallowed him. These natural man that are allowed to continue are able to because they treated Israel in the way that is explained in Matt 25:34-36 are not redeemed some of them may accept Christ in the 1,000 year kingdom, some will not. . During this time Satan is bound for a thousand years (Rev20:1-3). Then Satan is later loosed after the millennial reign of Christ to be able to deceive the natural man or the nations that were allowed to continue in the 1000 years. For what is known as the final battle of Gog and Magog were Satan gathers the people/nations against Christ (if you read in revelations Rev 20:7-10 this explains this. The latter part of that same chapter talks of the great white throne judgment, the last of the three judgement's in Scripture). The bible says these people will be killed instantly and Satan will be thrown into hell. The purpose of all of this is to finally put an end to all sin and the enemies of God, and to bring renovation to the earth. On a side note why is there natural man on the earth and why are they allowed to continue during the 1,000 years is clear in the bible. But this would be a lot to type and a bit off subject, like a lot of my reply is. But you have to explain some of these things to understand Matthew chapters 24-25.

 

[greentwiga]

When we try to force our morality on other, it is like washing a pig and dressing it in pearls. It returns to the mire. There are rules for Israel that I have heard people apply to USA. This is wrong. The Christians are the spiritual Israel. When another becomes a Christian, then God expects the new behavior.

There are other religions that have different moralities. 1 to 3 hundred years ago, people wrote about famines in India where people walked by babies crying next to their dead parents. They were not adopted because they might be different castes and contaminate them. Though I know many wonderful Indian people who would give like Jesus described, there is no connection between being religious and doing these things. The religion is internal. Similar sorts of stories come out of China where they would not rescue a drowning person.

Christianity demands this connection, even to the point where Jesus says if you look lustfully at a woman, you have committed adultery. Hold other Christians to this high standard, but don't force it on others.

 

[unklebill]

Greentwiga: Of course I'm not saying you should force this on people. One couldnt force this on people.

But should we advocate this behavior? When Jesus says "nations" isnt he admonishing some group to do these things?

 

[jtartar]

I am reading the parable of the sheep and goats. Matthew 25:31

In this parable she says that the blessed are those that: feed the hungry, tend the thirsty, invite in the stranger, clothe the unclothed, look after the sick, and visit the prisoners. Cursed are they that do not do these things. (the goats)

This verse is very clear to me other than, who is his intended audience? Is Jesus saying that this is what we as individuals should do? (clearly I believe.) Is he also saying that societies should practice this? I realize that Jesus did not live in a democracy, so could not have envisioned the society we live in.

Do I have any responsibility to urge my soceity to push these policies?

Is the fact that my church advocates for these issues enough? Did Jesus even envision a church?

Crud, this question is getting bigger than I had hoped.

Caveat here: I am not asking a political question here!!!!! If Jesus DOES say that we or society should do these things THEN the "how" will be political. I am not asking "how" to do these things. I am asking what is Jesus saying here to our society?

unklebill,
I don't know what you mean by a mandate here. These scriptures are speaking of the time when Jesus comes to earh with his angels to bring about judgement on all the earth. This actually seems to be Harmagedon, Rev 16:16, 19:11-21.
Notice verse Matt 25:40, where Jesus calls the ones that are treated good of bad. his BROTHERS. Jesus calls his disciples brothers in several places, John 20:17, Matt 12:47-50. Also in Hebrews they are called Jesus' brothers, Heb 2:11,12,17.
The ones Jesus calls his brothers are very different than all Christians today. These ones have been anointed by God, and adopted by God, making them Jesus brothers, Gal 4:5-7, Eph 1:3-5.
The Bible says that they receive the same resurrection as Jesus received, a spiritual one, Rom 6:3-5, 1Pet 3:18, 2Cor 5:16,17, John 3:5-8.
These ones are to be co-heirs with Jesus of the Heavenly Kingdom of God, 1Cor 15:50, Rom 8:14-17. This small group, that Jesus called a Little Flock, Luke 12:32 are to become Kings and Priests in heaven with Jesus for the thousand year Judgement Day, Rev 20:4-6. These seem to be mentioned also at 2Tim 2:12, Rev 5:9,10, 14:1-5.
This time period seems to be the same as is mentioned several other places, Matt 24:29-31, Matt 16:27, 1Thes 4:16,17, 2Thes 1:6-10, 2:1,2.
Even though at Matt 25:31-46, the people are judged on how they treat Jesus' brothers, it seems by what other scriptures say, we should treat all people good, Gal 6:10.

 

[Oak of Justice]

The important thing to find out is how to hear Gods word. What does scripture say? Who is the word revealed to? Here are a few verses that can help.

"If you continue in my teaching you are truly my disciple, then you shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free."

"The Lord God does nothing without revealing His secrets to His servants the prophets."

"The man who keeps the commandments he has from me is the man who loves me and the man who loves me will be loved by my Father, I too shall love him and reveal myself to him."

"The friendship of the Lord is with those who revere Him and He makes His covenant known to them."

"Those who trust in the Lord shall understand truth, and the faithful shall abide with him in love: Because grace and mercy are with his holy one’s, and his care is with the chosen."

"Who has stood in the counsel of the Lord to see Him and to hear His word? Who has heeded His word so as to announce it."

" Light dawns for the righteous, and joy for the upright of heart."

" The heavens proclaim the Lords righteousness; and all the people behold his glory."

"Teach me your way, O Lord, that I may walk in your truth; give me an undivided heart to revere your name."

"The meek shall inherit the land, and delight themselves in abundant peace."

"Blessed are the pure of heart, they will see God."

 

[james2ko]

I am reading the parable of the sheep and goats. Matthew 25:31

In this parable she says that the blessed are those that: feed the hungry, tend the thirsty, invite in the stranger, clothe the unclothed, look after the sick, and visit the prisoners. Cursed are they that do not do these things. (the goats)

This verse is very clear to me other than, who is his intended audience? Is Jesus saying that this is what we as individuals should do? (clearly I believe.) Is he also saying that societies should practice this? I realize that Jesus did not live in a democracy, so could not have envisioned the society we live in.

Do I have any responsibility to urge my soceity to push these policies?

Is the fact that my church advocates for these issues enough? Did Jesus even envision a church?

Crud, this question is getting bigger than I had hoped.

Caveat here: I am not asking a political question here!!!!! If Jesus DOES say that we or society should do these things THEN the "how" will be political. I am not asking "how" to do these things. I am asking what is Jesus saying here to our society?

If you'll notice there are three parables in Mat 25. They were given as a result of a question asked privately by His disciples (Mat 24:3). The first two specifically addressed His disciples in this age--wise and foolish virgins, faithful and lazy servants. It would seem plausible to conclude the sheep and goats would have to refer to Christ's final judgment on all who have received their fair opportunity for salvation, during and after Christ's millennial reign, but failed to fulfill their responsibilities (Rev 20:11-15)

 

[Oak of Justice]

If Jesus said His followers would know the meaning of the secrets of God why is it Christians don't understand? Stop fooling yourselves and do what is right and just. Only those who are worthy can understand.

The son of man says; "Anyone who is not willing to pick up his cross and follow after me is not worthy of me."

 

[RisingKnowledge]

What is a "nation" as in "sheep nations" or "goat nations"?

The word nations is also the word for Gentiles and can be rendered either way, depending on context. It will be Gentiles who are judged because the Jews finally will all have recognized and accepted Christ as Savior when they see him at his second coming. The nations (the Gentiles) will obviously be judged individually, not as national units.

 

[sojourner]

I am reading the parable of the sheep and goats. Matthew 25:31

In this parable she says that the blessed are those that: feed the hungry, tend the thirsty, invite in the stranger, clothe the unclothed, look after the sick, and visit the prisoners. Cursed are they that do not do these things. (the goats)

This verse is very clear to me other than, who is his intended audience? Is Jesus saying that this is what we as individuals should do? (clearly I believe.) Is he also saying that societies should practice this? I realize that Jesus did not live in a democracy, so could not have envisioned the society we live in.

Do I have any responsibility to urge my soceity to push these policies?

Is the fact that my church advocates for these issues enough? Did Jesus even envision a church?

Crud, this question is getting bigger than I had hoped.

Caveat here: I am not asking a political question here!!!!! If Jesus DOES say that we or society should do these things THEN the "how" will be political. I am not asking "how" to do these things. I am asking what is Jesus saying here to our society?

The ancient religious POV was far more communal than we give it credit for. Jesus was speaking to God's people -- especially those who followed him -- not individuals. His injunction here is reminiscent of the Judaic hospitality laws.

Matthew very much sees Jesus followers as the "true Israel."