Christians and Bible believers Only. The Real Jesus (Son of David According to the Flesh)

[mayacrisol]

Can you show some scriptural evidence to show that Heli, father of Mary, was a priest? There was a Heli in the OT who was, but as you pointed out, that Heli is not the same Heli mentioned by Luke. The OT Heli only having two sons and no daughters is beside the point; as he’s not the one mentioned in Luke.[/COL]

I have shown from Scripture, that Heli is a priest in Shiloh.

Now can you cite some scriptural evidence that Mary's father is a man named Heli from the tribe of Judah, blood descendant of David?

 

[mayacrisol]

Luke’s account is also consistent with Kings and Chronicles (as well as a few other books, in fact, it’s more complete.)

Really have you made a research on it in the Bible?

Try this:
(let's have a little study on where Matthew is consistent and where Luke is not)

Matthew 1

Abraham
Isaac
Jacob
Judas
Phares
Esrom
Aram
Aminadab
Naasson
Salmon
Booz
Rachab
Obed
Jesse
David
Solomon
(fulfills the prophecy concerning the Messiah!)
1 Chron 28:5-7 And of all my sons, (for the LORD hath given me many sons,) he hath chosen Solomon my son to sit upon the throne of the kingdom of the LORD over Israel.
And he said unto me, Solomon thy son, he shall build my house and my courts: for I have chosen him to be my son, and I will be his father.
Moreover I will establish his(Solomon's) kingdom for ever, if he be constant to do my commandments and my judgments, as at this day.
1Ki 11:36 And unto his son will I give one tribe, that David my servant may have a light alway before me in Jerusalem, the city which I have chosen me to put my name there.

(Solomon's Son Rehoboam reigned after Solomon)
Rehoboam
(Correct! Rehoboam is son of Solomon, a valid vehicle to produce The True Messiah!)
1Ki 11:36 And unto his son will I give one tribe, that David my servant may have a light alway before me in Jerusalem, the city which I have chosen me to put my name there.
2Ch 13:15 Then the men of Judah gave a shout: and as the men of Judah shouted, it came to pass, that God smote Jeroboam and all Israel before Abijah and Judah.
2Ch 13:16 And the children of Israel fled before Judah: and God delivered them into their hand.
2Ch 13:4 And Abijah stood up upon mount Zemaraim, which is in mount Ephraim, and said, Hear me, thou Jeroboam, and all Israel;
2Ch 13:5 Ought ye not to know that the LORD God of Israel gave the kingdom over Israel to David for ever, even to him and to his sons by a covenant of salt?
2Ch 13:6 Yet Jeroboam the son of Nebat, the servant of Solomon the son of David, is risen up, and hath rebelled against his lord.
2Ch 13:7 And there are gathered unto him vain men, the children of Belial, and have strengthened themselves against Rehoboam the son of Solomon, when Rehoboam was young and tenderhearted, and could not withstand them.
1Ki 11:43 And Solomon slept with his fathers, and was buried in the city of David his father: and Rehoboam his son reigned in his stead.
Abijah (Abijam)
1Ki 14:31 And Rehoboam slept with his fathers, and was buried with his fathers in the city of David. And his mother's name was Naamah an Ammonitess. And Abijam his son reigned in his stead.
Asa
1Ki 15:8 And Abijam slept with his fathers; and they buried him in the city of David: and Asa his son reigned in his stead.
Jehoshaphat
1Ki 15:24 And Asa slept with his fathers, and was buried with his fathers in the city of David his father:and Jehoshaphat his son reigned in his stead.
Jehoram
1Ki 22:50 And Jehoshaphat slept with his fathers, and was buried with his fathers in the city of David his father: and Jehoram his son reigned in his stead.
Uzziah
2Ki 15:32 In the second year of Pekah the son of Remaliah king of Israel began Jotham the son of Uzziah king of Judah to reign.
Jotham
2Ch 26:23 So Uzziah slept with his fathers, and they buried him with his fathers in the field of the burial which belonged to the kings; for they said, He is a leper: and Jotham his son reigned in his stead.
Ahaz
2Ki 15:38 And Jotham slept with his fathers, and was buried with his fathers in the city of David his father: and Ahaz his son reigned in his stead.
Hezekiah
2Ki 16:20 And Ahaz slept with his fathers, and was buried with his fathers in the city of David: andHezekiah his son reigned in his stead.
Manasseh
1Ch 3:10 And Solomon's son was Rehoboam, Abia his son, Asa his son, Jehoshaphat his son,
1Ch 3:11 Joram his son, Ahaziah his son, Joash his son,
1Ch 3:12 Amaziah his son, Azariah his son, Jotham his son,
1Ch 3:13 Ahaz his son, Hezekiah his son, Manasseh his son,
Amon
1Ch 3:14 Amon his son, Josiah his son.
Josiah
1Ch 3:14 Amon his son, Josiah his son.
Jeconiah
1Ch 3:15 And the sons of Josiah were, the firstborn Johanan, the second Jehoiakim, the third Zedekiah, the fourth Shallum.
1Ch 3:16 And the sons of Jehoiakim: Jeconiah his son, Zedekiah his son.
Jer 28:4 And I will bring again to this place Jeconiah the son of Jehoiakim king of Judah, with all the captives of Judah, that went into Babylon, saith the LORD: for I will break the yoke of the king of Babylon.
Jer 28:5 Then the prophet Jeremiah said unto the prophet Hananiah in the presence of the priests, and in the presence of all the people that stood in the house of the LORD,
Jer 28:6 Even the prophet Jeremiah said, Amen: the LORD do so: the LORD perform thy words which thou hast prophesied, to bring again the vessels of the LORD'S house, and all that is carried away captive, from Babylon into this place.
Sealthiel
(Correct!)1Ch 3:17 And the sons of Jeconiah; Assir, Sealthiel his son,
Zerubbabel
Mat 1:12 And after they were brought to Babylon, Jechonias begat Salathiel; and Salathiel begat Zorobabel;

1Ch 3:17 And the sons of Jeconiah; Assir, Sealthiel his son,
1Ch 3:18 Malchiram also, and Pedaiah, and Shenazar, Jecamiah, Hoshama, and Nedabiah.
1Ch 3:19 And the sons of Pedaiah were, Zerubbabel
(Zerubbabel is grandson of Jecohiah, son of Sealthiel, nephew of Pedaiah)

Hag 2:23 In that day, saith the LORD of hosts, will I take thee, O Zerubbabel, my servant, the son of Shealtiel, saith the LORD, and will make thee as a signet: for I have chosen thee, saith the LORD of hosts.)

Abiud
Eliakim
Azor
Sadoc
Achim
Eliud
Eleazar
Matthan
Jacob
Joseph
Jesus, who is called Christ
(JESUS WHO IS CALLED THE CHRIST)
(Mat 1:16)

 

[mayacrisol]

Luke3

Adam
Seth
Enos
Cainan
Maleleel
Jared
Enoch
Mathusala
Lamech
Noe
Sem
Arphaxad
Cainan
Sala
Heber
Phalec
Ragau
Saruch
Nachor
Thara
Abraham
Isaac
Jacob
Juda
Phares
Esrom
Aram
Aminadab
Naasson
Salmon
Booz
Obed
Jesse
David
Nathan
(is an invalid vehicle to produce a valid Massiah!),
Mattatha
Menna
Melea
Eliakim
Jonam
Joseph
Judah
Simeon
Levi
Matthat
Jorin
Eliezer
Joshua
Er
(can only be found here:
1Ch 4:21 The sons of Shelah the son of Judah were, Er the father of Lecah, and Laadah the father of Mareshah, and the families of the house of them that wrought fine linen, of the house of Ashbea,
1Ch 2:3 The sons of Judah; Er, and Onan, and Shelah: which three were born unto him of the daughter of Shua the Canaanitess. And Er, the firstborn of Judah, was evil in the sight of the LORD; and he slew him. )

Elmodam
(only in Luke3)
Cosam
(only in Luke3)
Addi
(only in Luke3)
Melchi
(only in Luke3)
Neri
(only in Luke3)
(Wrong! Neri is not descendant of Sealthiel! There is no Neri in the Scripture other than here! only a certain Neriah and His Father is Maaseiah! his son is Baruch -Jeremiah 32:12; Maaseiah is from the children of Perez, They only serve King Solomon!-1 Chro 27:1-3 )
Sealthiel
Wrong!(Sealthiel is not son of Neri!! Sealthiel is son of Jeconiah!)
1Ch 3:17 And the sons of Jeconiah; Assir, Sealthiel his son,
1Ch 3:18 Malchiram also, and Pedaiah, and Shenazar, Jecamiah, Hoshama, and Nedabiah.

Zerubbabel
1Ch 3:18 Malchiram also, and Pedaiah, and Shenazar, Jecamiah, Hoshama, and Nedabiah.
1Ch 3:19 And the sons of Pedaiah were, Zerubbabel, and Shimei:
(Zerubbabel is grandson of Jecohiah, son of Sealthiel, nephew of Pedaiah)

Rhesa
(a name that can only be found here in Luke 3 genealogy)
Joanna
(a name only found in Luke: Luk 8:3 And Joanna the wife of Chuza Herod's steward, and Susanna, and many others, which ministered unto him of their substance.
Luk 24:10 It was Mary Magdalene, and Joanna, and Mary the mother of James, and other women that were with them, which told these things unto the apostles. )
Juda
(a name only found in Luke3 genealogy)
Joseph
Semei
Mattathias
Maath
Nagai
Esli
Nahum
Amos
Mattathias
Joseph
Jannai
Melki
Levi
Matthat
Heli
Joseph
Jesus, being (as was supposed)
(JESUS AS KNOWN)
Luk 3:23

The only Heli in the Scripture has only two sons: Hophni and Phinehas! No (Mary) Daughter as catholics claim!!!
1Sa 1:3 And this man went up out of his city yearly to worship and to sacrifice unto the LORD of hosts in Shiloh. And the two sons of Eli, Hophni and Phinehas, the priests of the LORD, were there.
And The only Heli in the Scripture is a Priest!
1 Samuel 14:3 And Achias the son of Achitob brother to Ichabod the son of Phinees, the son of Heli the priest of the Lord in Silo, wore the ephod. And the people knew not whither Jonathan was gone.
Heli is also an invalid vehicle to produce a TRUE MESSIAH!
Heb 7:14
(KJV) For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

Notice another disturbing point about the genealogy of Luke3,it was written in Luke 3:38 that lineage passed through Seth.
Luk 3:38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.
Now, Read the prophecy of Balaam regarding the Coming Messiah:
Num 24:17 I shall see him, but not now: I shall behold him, but not nigh: there shall come a Star out of Jacob, and a Sceptre shall rise out of Israel, and shall smite the corners of Moab, and destroy all the children of Sheth.

(Sheth is also Seth, 1Ch 1:1 Adam, Sheth, Enosh, )

And even if it's true that Balaam later on adviced Balak on how to entice Israelites to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication. We cannot deny that all the prophecies and blessings of Balaam for Israel in Numbers 22-24 are from God, three times God ruled his utterances, so, instead of curses, there were blessings and magnificent prophecies, reaching forward until they told of "a star" rising "out of Jacob" (Numbers 24:17). This ruler of Israel shall smite the people of Moab, and destroy the sons of Seth. Israel will possess Edom and Seir; and shall overcome their enemies. Jacob shall rise in power and destroy many cities (Numbers 24:18-9 TB).

This is a fact confirmed in:
Mic 6:5 O my people, remember now what Balak king of Moab consulted, and what Balaam the son of Beor answered him from ****tim unto Gilgal; that ye may know the righteousness of the LORD.
Jos 24:10 But I would not hearken unto Balaam; therefore he blessed you still: so I delivered you out of his hand.
Neh 13:2 Because they met not the children of Israel with bread and with water, but hired Balaam against them, that he should curse them: howbeit our God turned the curse into a blessing.

There i posted a few of what I believe are important facts to know from these 2 genealogies. I hope you consider and study them. I am in no way discrediting Luke even though he was not an apostle like Matthew, I came to an understanding that Luke's genealogy was written as it is for a purpose. And only those who are interested enough to study and search the Scripture shall find it and be at peace with it.

Isaiah 34:16 Seek from the book of the LORD, and read: Not one of these will be missing; None will lack its mate. For His mouth has commanded, And His Spirit has gathered them.

 

[wordmagnifiedabovenames]

You haven't answered any of the questions I've asked, but I do have some responses to what you've said. So as to not make this thread overly messy, I'll reply to what you've said via PMs.
If anyone else wants to know my thoughts on the matter feel free to let me know and I can PM you my responses and keep the thread tidy.

 

[mayacrisol]

I didn’t say the seed of the woman was Mary, I said that in regard to the seed of the woman, the seed is Jesus (as shown in John 8) and the woman is Eve.

Galatians 4 doesn’t mention the “seed of the woman” at all. It mentions (before the bit you started quoting) that Jesus was made of a woman (referring to Mary) “under the law.” (Jesus was born a Jew and Mary was under the law.) Eve wasn’t under the law (as it wasn’t made for another few thousand years,) thus being made of a woman does not refer to Eve, but to Mary. The two are different. Galatians does mentions the New Jerusalem, but in no way does it tie the New Jerusalem to the seed of the woman, thus the seed of the woman is not the New Jerusalem (nor is it shown anywhere else in the Bible the seed of the woman (Jesus) = New Jersualem.)

No one said the seed of the woman was Mary. LOL.
You said in Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.the Woman was Mary and the seed was Jesus.
I said the Woman was the Church of God (or Jerusalem which is above)and the seed were the Christians.

I showed you how Paul refers to Jerusalem which is above as the Woman (Free woman) and her children are the Christians.
You won't believe it.
I give you another one:

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

You know that the dragon is also the Old serpent, right?
Read:
Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

Then the remnant of her (the woman's) seed which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ are The Christians and the Woman is the Church of God (or Jerusalem which is above or the Free Woman)....Not Mary.


Now, do you see? also,
In Jesus' parable (Matthew 13:38..although it talks about another kind of seed...from gathering these verses i'm posting I hope you will understand what I'm showing here) he says the good seeds represent the children of the Kingdom and the sons of the evil one are the weeds and the devil sowed them. It's always about the seed (collective noun) of the woman which is the children of the kingdom (Christians, children of the New Covenant, Children of the free woman, children of Jerusalem which is above) VS the sons/children/seed of the old serpent (the serpent, the dragon/satan/evil one/wicked one)

Read Hebrews 7:5 more closely. You’ll see that it is not just men that come out of the loins of Abraham, but the people (which include women.) Mary being in the loins of David (as Luke’s gospel shows) is completely legit. Thus Mary being of the line of David, Judah and Abraham fulfils a lot of prophecy.

When I used the word Men, ofcourse i meant all men (men and women/ male and female/humans/seed/flesh/sperm/sperma meaning "seed" ).
And when I explained about how Scripture shows that men (men and women/ male and female/ seed) comes from the loins of Men (Male), I was referring to Jesus' flesh...how that the seed (sperm) must come (without sexual contact between Mary and Joseph--through the divine intervention of the Holy Spirit by the power of the Highest) from the loins of Joseph who was the son of David, from the fruit of the body of David, from house, lineage and tribe of David (which is Judah)....all these happened so that the prophecy concerning the Messiah's blood lineage according to the prophets might be fulfilled in Jesus.

 

[mayacrisol]

You haven't answered any of the questions I've asked, but I do have some responses to what you've said. So as to not make this thread overly messy, I'll reply to what you've said via PMs.
If anyone else wants to know my thoughts on the matter feel free to let me know and I can PM you my responses and keep the thread tidy.

As far as I'm concerned i have responded to your questions. If I missed anything then I'm sorry for they were many but I believe I have responded to the most relevant ones.

I don't think your posts are littering this thread. In fact this thread needs comments and thoughts like yours,
besides, what will your comments and thoughts be good for if they just sit and hide in my PM box?

Luke 11:33 "No one lights a lamp and puts it in a place where it will be hidden, or under a bowl. Instead he puts it on its stand, so that those who come in may see the light.

 

[weirdpuckett]

Sealthiel
(Correct!)1Ch 3:17 And the sons of Jeconiah; Assir, Sealthiel his son,
Zerubbabel

With regard to this , does it not register with you what God said concerning Jeconiah(coniah) in Jeremiah 22:28 thru Jer 23 ? Sure Zerubbabel became a Govenor later but consider the dire state of that rebuilding-they had to wear weapons as they built for fear of attack etc. Zerubbabel was not a King !

 

[4given]

Jesus Christ is not God or God in human form..

Jesus said in John 8:40 "I am a man who told you the truth that I heared from God"

Jesus Christ said to marry magdalene after his ressurection in john 20:17 " Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”

Jesus Christ recognized only one God the Father in heaven. John 17:3 "Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent."

GOD did not recognized any other god in Isaiah 46:5-9
5 “With whom will you compare me or count me equal?
To whom will you liken me that we may be compared?
6 Some pour out gold from their bags
and weigh out silver on the scales;
they hire a goldsmith to make it into a god,
and they bow down and worship it.
7 They lift it to their shoulders and carry it;
they set it up in its place, and there it stands.
From that spot it cannot move.
Even though someone cries out to it, it cannot answer;
it cannot save them from their troubles.

8 “Remember this, keep it in mind,
take it to heart, you rebels.
9 Remember the former things, those of long ago;
I am God, and there is no other;
I am God, and there is none like me.

Jesus Christ have flesh and bones but the Spirit no flesh and bones in Luke 24:38-39
"He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.”

God is spirit John 4:23-24 "Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”


Jesus Christ did not change in form or shape in Acts 1:10-11

They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. “Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”

Jesus Christ created by God in Colossians 1:15

The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

Jesus christ is a MAN

Mark 15:34; MT. 27:19; luke 4:4; romans 5:15; hebrew 3:14; acts 2:22; acts 13:37-38; rev 1:17-20; 1 tim 2:5; rev. 3:11-13 rev 3:21

What's the argument here?

Oh I see.... so, what makes you think that the God of of Old Testament is not the Son himself, the Christ.... who took the FORM of a man (flesh)... so that he can save us from our dead sins?

Do you really believe that the God of the Old Testament (YHWH) is not the same God (the Son) that we have in the New Testament?

Thanks