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Christianity and the Ten Commandments

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true blood

Active Member
jewscout said:
true blood...i'd like to know which part of the Tanach ("old testament") you get the idea that mitzvot are a "curse"...where does G-d say "i will curse you with My laws"? or even allude to that?
Well most times the tribes of Israel received laws were during their "turning away" from their Lord. Many times God was on the brink of completely destroying them utterly, ready to choose a new different nation but Moses persuaded him not to. But obviously they did not go unpunished. They were put under the bondage of the law with very serious consequences. If the "Jews" were still under those laws, they would still be subject to the dire consequences. Either God has forgotten to punish them or they (the laws) are not in effect, or they are living perfectly.
 

jewscout

Religious Zionist
true blood said:
Funny thing is that they are not decendants, therefore not real "Jews".
true blood your knowledge of jewish practices is lacking...
once one is converted into the jewish faith they are as much a jew as anyone....
if we were to go by your standard then the entire concept of monotheism would be null and void, because the first monotheist, Abraham, was a convert, as was Sarah, Rebecca, Rachel and Leah, so was Ruth, which would make David's "jewishness" null and void for he is her Decendant...which would make the very concept of the Moshaich ben David, which nearly every chrisian sect claims jesus to be, a farce...
 

jewscout

Religious Zionist
true blood said:
Well most times the tribes of Israel received laws were during their "turning away" from their Lord. Many times God was on the brink of completely destroying them utterly, ready to choose a new different nation but Moses persuaded him not to. But obviously they did not go unpunished. They were put under the bondage of the law with very serious consequences. If the "Jews" were still under those laws, they would still be subject to the dire consequences. Either God has forgotten to punish them or they (the laws) are not in effect, or they are living perfectly.
quote me verse that says that HaShem has punished the Bnei Yisrael with mitzvot
 

jewscout

Religious Zionist
true blood if we are to take your interpretation of Deut. 28:15-61 to be a "curse" then why do men have laws to begin with?
is prison a "curse"?
are fines a "curse"?

i see that passage as the punishment for breaking the laws, just like we have in our society. If i steal a car, i get arrested, i go to jail. And just like in our society i can pay my debt back...in our society i do my time i get out...in Judaism i pray and do good deeds to make up for my mistakes
and HaShem says that these Laws are an eternal covenant...they are in place from the beginning when He made the covenant w/ Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and will be for all time
 

true blood

Active Member
jewscout said:
true blood your knowledge of jewish practices is lacking...
once one is converted into the jewish faith they are as much a jew as anyone....
if we were to go by your standard then the entire concept of monotheism would be null and void, because the first monotheist, Abraham, was a convert, as was Sarah, Rebecca, Rachel and Leah, so was Ruth, which would make David's "jewishness" null and void for he is her Decendant...which would make the very concept of the Moshaich ben David, which nearly every chrisian sect claims jesus to be, a farce...
I have a solid knowledge of the term Jew and a solid knowledge of the Biblical Tribes. I'd disagree that Abraham was the first monotheist, what about Adam, or Noah? As for decendants, they trace back through male blood lines. In normal cases, when the sperm is implanted, no blood passes through from the mother and the child growing inside.

We have laws because we do not follow the path of the Truth. Do you think we'll have laws after the resurrection?
 

EnhancedSpirit

High Priestess
The first 5 mosaic laws are associated to the devotion,honor,reverence and obedience to God
The remaining 5 MOSIAC laws are associated and directed to fellow man.
Therfore Jesus came to fulfill the law by stating two new laws that hinged on the original mosaic law
Love your God with all your heart,soul,mind and strength = the 5 mosiac laws
And love your neighbor as yourself = the latter 5 mosiac laws
Mathew 5:19
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
 

EnhancedSpirit

High Priestess
I found a very interesting translation of the Bible. Jesus and the Commandments, that's the topic, right?


The Message said:
Matthew 5:13 "Let me tell you why you are here. You're here to be salt-seasoning that brings out the God-flavors of this earth. If you lose your saltiness, how will people taste godliness? You've lost your usefulness and will end up in the garbage. 14 "Here's another way to put it: You're here to be light, bringing out the God-colors in the world. God is not a secret to be kept. We're going public with this, as public as a city on a hill. 15 If I make you light-bearers, you don't think I'm going to hide you under a bucket, do you? I'm putting you on a light stand. 16 Now that I've put you there on a hilltop, on a light stand - shine! Keep open house; be generous with your lives. By opening up to others, you'll prompt people to open up with God, this generous Father in heaven.



17 "Don't suppose for a minute that I have come to demolish the Scriptures - either God's Law or the Prophets. I'm not here to demolish but to complete. I am going to put it all together, pull it all together in a vast panorama. 18 God's Law is more real and lasting than the stars in the sky and the ground at your feet. Long after stars burn out and earth wears out, God's Law will be alive and working. 19 "Trivialize even the smallest item in God's Law and you will only have trivialized yourself. But take it seriously, show the way for others, and you will find honor in the kingdom. 20 Unless you do far better than the Pharisees in the matters of right living, you won't know the first thing about entering the kingdom.



21 "You're familiar with the command to the ancients, 'Do not murder.' 22 I'm telling you that anyone who is so much as angry with a brother or sister is guilty of murder. Carelessly call a brother 'idiot!' and you just might find yourself hauled into court. Thoughtlessly yell 'stupid!' at a sister and you are on the brink of hellfire. The simple moral fact is that words kill. 23 "This is how I want you to conduct yourself in these matters. If you enter your place of worship and, about to make an offering, you suddenly remember a grudge a friend has against you, 24 abandon your offering, leave immediately, go to this friend and make things right. Then and only then, come back and work things out with God. 25 "Or say you're out on the street and an old enemy accosts you. Don't lose a minute. Make the first move; make things right with him. After all, if you leave the first move to him, knowing his track record, you're likely to end up in court, maybe even jail. 26 If that happens, you won't get out without a stiff fine.



27 "You know the next commandment pretty well, too: 'Don't go to bed with another's spouse.' 28 But don't think you've preserved your virtue simply by staying out of bed. Your heart can be corrupted by lust even quicker than your body. Those leering looks you think nobody notices - they also corrupt. 29 "Let's not pretend this is easier than it really is. If you want to live a morally pure life, here's what you have to do: You have to blind your right eye the moment you catch it in a lustful leer. You have to choose to live one-eyed or else be dumped on a moral trash pile. 30 And you have to chop off your right hand the moment you notice it raised threateningly. Better a bloody stump than your entire being discarded for good in the dump. 31 "Remember the Scripture that says, 'Whoever divorces his wife, let him do it legally, giving her divorce papers and her legal rights'? 32 Too many of you are using that as a cover for selfishness and whim, pretending to be righteous just because you are 'legal.' Please, no more pretending. If you divorce your wife, you're responsible for making her an adulteress (unless she has already made herself that by sexual promiscuity). And if you marry such a divorced adulteress, you're automatically an adulterer yourself. You can't use legal cover to mask a moral failure.



33 "And don't say anything you don't mean. This counsel is embedded deep in our traditions. 34 You only make things worse when you lay down a smoke screen of pious talk, saying, 'I'll pray for you,' and never doing it, or saying, 'God be with you,' and not meaning it. You don't make your words true by embellishing them with religious lace. In making your speech sound more religious, it becomes less true. 35 36 37 Just say 'yes' and 'no.' When you manipulate words to get your own way, you go wrong.

38 "Here's another old saying that deserves a second look: 'Eye for eye, tooth for tooth.' 39 Is that going to get us anywhere? Here's what I propose: 'Don't hit back at all.' If someone strikes you, stand there and take it. 40 If someone drags you into court and sues for the shirt off your back, giftwrap your best coat and make a present of it. 41 And if someone takes unfair advantage of you, use the occasion to practice the servant life. 42 No more tit-for-tat stuff. Live generously.
 

Pah

Uber all member
true blood said:
pah said:
Now I'm going to ask that the topic return to the one in the OP

Your link explains that "Jewish" law had been influenced by Roman law regarding citizenship and nationality. Basicly Jewish law was degraded further by Gentile influences.
You quoted a post where I asked to return to the topic of the OP. I'l not ask again.
 

jewscout

Religious Zionist
ok taking EnhancedSpirit's quote from matthew it would appear that Jesus did not do away w/ any of the mitzvot, there is no ending of the Laws or some kind of curse...so there's your answer folks...even based upon El Savior himself, mitzvot are alive and well!

So put down the ham sandwich!:tsk: :D
 

roli

Born Again,Spirit Filled
The purpose for the lawis not to save people but to condemn,bring guilt,convict

Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster(tutor)[to bring us] unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Romans 3:19 now we know that what so ever the Law says,it says to those under the law,that every mouth may be stopped and all the world may become guilty before God ,
Rom3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the Law no flesh shall be justified ,for by the Law is the knowledge of sin (Law's purpose,to know what sin is)

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Christ fulfills the law
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Rom 10:4 For Christ [is] the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster



Conclude, we are all under sin and need Christ
Rom 3:9 What then? are we better [than they]? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.


The laws were written on our hearts and consciences as far back as Gen 4:7 where God tells Cain that sin lies at your door and it(sin) desires you)but you should rule over it,
The conscious awareness,choice and will were activated since the beginning AND God must have felt he would give them the benefit of the doubt,but they failed and God insituted the commandments or convenant at Mt Sinai,

Regardless of our personal views regarding the law and commandments,there is always a cause and effect from violating any law present in the universe,how much more God's Holy Law,
The question remains ,what will happen when we violate God's law,despite whether we believe in and or adhere to thses laws ,they are permantly written on our hearts, AND WE WILL GIVE AN ACCOUNT
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
There is zero reason, beyond faith alone, to accept Paul or the author of Matthew as an authority on much of anything.
 
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