Christianity and Christian Scriptures.

[ChristineES]

I am not sure how to explain this. I read what I used to call the "New Testament" but now call Christian Scriptures and became a follower of Jesus (Yeshua) long before I ever went to Church (Edit: I should mention to those who don't know this that I was raised without any kind of religion, as my mother was an atheist in my early childhood and most of my teen years).

When I decided to go to a Church, I was quite surprised on how much different what I read was from what I was taught in said Church. It seemed almost like a whole different faith than the one I read about in the four gospels and even in Paul's and the other's epistles.

I always wondering if I am the only person who has noticed this. I have been pretty sure in these past 31 years since I first became a Christian that had to be others, like me, who read the Bible first and then became a Christian (I also read a good share of the Tanach (Old Testament) before I went to Church), who also read it before and noticed this kind of thing.

Is there any Christian here at the RF who has noticed this kind of thing? (I am sure their is, but...). If it is true, then what can we do about it?

 

[Quiddity]

I lost interest years ago on how I personally would read the Bible because you are most certainly going to read it differently then someone else or some other group.

Personally, I think that is the wrong approach to take and the cause of much of the division within Christianity.

Reading early church history and how early Christians wrote about matters of faith will completely alter the way you read the Bible.

Lastly, the question of authority is of up most importance in this as well. Unless you solve these two issues (interpretation and authority), you aren't going anywhere except to create more fragments within Christianity.

 

[Pegg]

I am not sure how to explain this. I read what I used to call the "New Testament" but now call Christian Scriptures and became a follower of Jesus (Yeshua) long before I ever went to Church (Edit: I should mention to those who don't know this that I was raised without any kind of religion, as my mother was an atheist in my early childhood and most of my teen years).

When I decided to go to a Church, I was quite surprised on how much different what I read was from what I was taught in said Church. It seemed almost like a whole different faith than the one I read about in the four gospels and even in Paul's and the other's epistles.

I always wondering if I am the only person who has noticed this. I have been pretty sure in these past 31 years since I first became a Christian that had to be others, like me, who read the Bible first and then became a Christian (I also read a good share of the Tanach (Old Testament) before I went to Church), who also read it before and noticed this kind of thing.

Is there any Christian here at the RF who has noticed this kind of thing? (I am sure their is, but...). If it is true, then what can we do about it?

Ah.... yeah!

The watchtower magazines have been pointing out these differences for over 100 years.

And the christians who started the JW movement were from all different denomination who inadvertently discovered these things through their own personal reading of the bible. When they found things that were not what they had been taught, you can imagine how upsetting it was for them to learn that they had been lied to for so long.

So they fought against the misinformation by publishing what the bible actually teaches.

 

[Quiddity]

Ah.... yeah!

The watchtower magazines have been pointing out these differences for over 100 years.

And the christians who started the JW movement were from all different denomination who inadvertently discovered these things through their own personal reading of the bible. When they found things that were not what they had been taught, you can imagine how upsetting it was for them to learn that they had been lied to for so long.

So they fought against the misinformation by publishing what the bible actually teaches.

People can misinterpret things innocently and without malice. Having a new group of people read it again, only opens up an opportunity for it to occur again.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

If I tried to read the entire Bible by myself with no outside interpretation to help me, I would be completely lost.

 

[Pegg]

People can misinterpret things innocently and without malice. Having a new group of people read it again, only opens up an opportunity for it to occur again.

the problem over the past 2,000 years has been 'control'

The church authorities have been in control of bible teaching...that teaching could not be challenged and anyone who did challenge it put their life in danger because the church authority would come down heavy on anyone who did so.

So the average christian did not read the bible. The bible continues to be read aloud 'in latin' in the catholic church services even to this day.

How can the average christian even hope to know what the bible says when they dont understand the language its being read to them in?

Anyway, the good thing is that christians dont need to be 'spoon fed' anymore because everyone has access to a bible and they can read it themselves. And when you do, you see that the churches are not teaching from it.

 

[Pegg]

If I tried to read the entire Bible by myself with no outside interpretation to help me, I would be completely lost.

When you read the bible, you are hearing it from the horses mouth.

Do you want to know what Jesus taught? Then hear him yourself from the gospels? Do you want to know what the Apostles taught? Then listen to them by reading their words.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

When you read the bible, you are hearing it from the horses mouth.

Do you want to know what Jesus taught? Then hear him yourself from the gospels? Do you want to know what the Apostles taught? Then listen to them by reading their words.

Um, yeah. I do all that. But there's a right way to interpret things and a wrong way. On my own, I'd just be giving my interpretation and I may be completely off.

 

[Quiddity]

the problem over the past 2,000 years has been 'control'

The church authorities have been in control of bible teaching...that teaching could not be challenged and anyone who did challenge it put their life in danger because the church authority would come down heavy on anyone who did so.

So the average christian did not read the bible. The bible continues to be read aloud 'in latin' in the catholic church services even to this day.

How can the average christian even hope to know what the bible says when they dont understand the language its being read to them in?

Anyway, the good thing is that christians dont need to be 'spoon fed' anymore because everyone has access to a bible and they can read it themselves. And when you do, you see that the churches are not teaching from it.

I will ignore the numerous errors you've exposed forum readings too since this isn't the place for it. But given that I'm in a chippy mood and it's Friday, let's assume everything you said is correct; you've done nothing to actually solve the problem but to say "they are wrong because of control and lack of not sharing the Bible......." and then proceed to say that these unbias and kind souls actually read the Bible and walla! They understood it........Do you realize how condescending that might come across to the thousands or millions who are sincerely trying to understand......WITHOUT control.........WITHOUT Latin....blah blah blah.......If anything, it's caused more confusion.

 

[Pegg]

Um, yeah. I do all that. But there's a right way to interpret things and a wrong way. On my own, I'd just be giving my interpretation and I may be completely off.

thats possible.

But if you read a clear statement in the bible, why does it need interpreting?

for example, if you read:

The righteous will possess the earth, And they will live forever on it
'
What does that tell you?

 

[Quiddity]

BTW, no one is saying that we mere mortals are incapable or too stupid to get the proper interpretation........just saying we can get it wrong and there would be no way of fixing the chaos that ensues when you get millions of others who think they are right as well.

 

[Quiddity]

thats possible.

But if you read a clear statement in the bible, why does it need interpreting?

for example, if you read:

The righteous will possess the earth, And they will live forever on it
'
What does that tell you?

In the real world, the 9 Supreme Justices reach a point when they can no longer go to the one thing that is being debated....THE WRITTEN LAW. So to it is with the Bible. Quoting it isn't going to get you anywhere because we'll just talk past each other. You have your wrong verses and we have ours.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

So the average christian did not read the bible.

After the collapse of the Roman Empire, most people couldn't read in the first place. Most of the population was not educated.

By the way, the traditional English Catholic Bible, the Douay-Rheims, is older than the KJV.

The bible continues to be read aloud 'in latin' in the catholic church services even to this day.

Is this the '50s? No. All parts of the Catholic Mass are in the vernacular, unless you specifically choose to to a church that is allowed to celebrate the Tridentine Mass.

Mass is not Bible study. It is the celebration of the Eucharist. It is a solemn celebration that connects us with the Divine.

 

[Pegg]

BTW, no one is saying that we mere mortals are incapable or too stupid to get the proper interpretation........just saying we can get it wrong and there would be no way of fixing the chaos that ensues when you get millions of others who think they are right as well.

its like say any book you pick up to read must be interpreted for you.

The author tells us the story hence they are already giving us the interpretation.

"peter went for a long walk because he was feeling lonely"

Why did Peter go for a long walk?


The writer has already provided the interpretation. You shoulnt need someone else to give you their interpretation....and that is unfortunately what church people do. They give you their own interpretation rather then what the author actually said.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

thats possible.

But if you read a clear statement in the bible, why does it need interpreting?

for example, if you read:

The righteous will possess the earth, And they will live forever on it
'
What does that tell you?

Has to be interpreted in context. You can't just strip verses of their context and go "oh, yeah - that's what it means".

 

[Quiddity]

its like say any book you pick up to read must be interpreted for you.

Actually, yes. Especially if it's part of school curriculum. Unless it's in the arts, most times we get guidance from others and although there is some fluidity, there is a meaning that the author intends to convey.

 

[Quiddity]

its like say any book you pick up to read must be interpreted for you.

The author tells us the story hence they are already giving us the interpretation.

"peter went for a long walk because he was feeling lonely"

Why did Peter go for a long walk?


The writer has already provided the interpretation. You shoulnt need someone else to give you their interpretation....and that is unfortunately what church people do. They give you their own interpretation rather then what the author actually said.

Because individual people interpret better?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Pegg, you are being a complete hypocrite because you interpret the Bible by what the Watchtower says it means and you are not allowed to disagree (whereas Catholics have varying opinions on various things and we're not going to get excommunicated for it; we have nothing like disfellowship).

Don't forget to have this on hand when you're reading your sectarian New World Translation:

 

[Desert Snake]

its like say any book you pick up to read must be interpreted for you.

The author tells us the story hence they are already giving us the interpretation.

"peter went for a long walk because he was feeling lonely"

Why did Peter go for a long walk?


The writer has already provided the interpretation. You shoulnt need someone else to give you their interpretation....and that is unfortunately what church people do. They give you their own interpretation rather then what the author actually said.

Uh, yeah, but it isn't like your interpretations are 'better' than others, in fact I find myself constantly disagreeing with you, so I don't think so, apparently.

 

[Pegg]

In the real world, the 9 Supreme Justices reach a point when they can no longer go to the one thing that is being debated....THE WRITTEN LAW. So to it is with the Bible. Quoting it isn't going to get you anywhere because we'll just talk past each other. You have your wrong verses and we have ours.

you have your 'teachings' and the bible has its 'teachings'


I prefer the bibles teachings.