SavedByTheLord
Well-Known Member
Well they got cut after for not believing in Christ.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Challenge for those that believe in billions of years for the age of things. Give anything that is more than 6000 years old. NO ASSUMPTIONS ALLOWED.
- Thread starter SavedByTheLord
- Start date
You say "There is nothing of that in the King James Bible" Nothing of what friend .. and who is the one trying out a ruse ?
What on earth are you talking about and why would you bother posting such nonsense .. crying out "Nothing of that is in there" but not telling us what you are claiming is not in there from my post ? What kind of ruse is this sans the one of self deception. I gave you an example of the Pious Fraud in the gospel of Matt .. = From the Gospel of Matt .. Does the King James Bible that you have not have the Gospel of Matthew ?
What kind of ruse is this .. and why should it not be dismissed ?
SavedByTheLord
Well-Known Member
There are 4 gospel accounts, there is nothing of a prior gospel that they all borrowed from,
What fraud are you taking about?
I said nothing about a prior gospel that all borrowed from .. you clearly got something I said confused or did not understand what was being said.
The term used was "pious fraud" .. which is kind of like fraud light .. something perfectly acceptable in the first century AD. and I explained to you what this was .. it is called "The sin of omission" if you wish a more technical term.
It is not some secret that Matt the Gospel of Mark as a source document -omitting a few passages derogatory to Jesus and/or the disciples ..
This is straight out of the "Catholic Encyclopedia"
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Gospel of St. Matthew
Detailed article about the first Gospel
I would not classify these as "Lies" outright fraud .. that you can find in other places in your King James Bible .... this is "Pious Fraud - "Artistic License" the author of Matt wanting to soften the image of Jesus
Can tell you one thing it is not .. and that is "Inspired" .. Plenty of "uninspired" all over the Bible friend .. how have you not figured this out .. and be a Student of the Bible ?
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Oh noes!!! Not the anti-ChristI said nothing about a prior gospel that all borrowed from .. you clearly got something I said confused or did not understand what was being said.
The term used was "pious fraud" .. which is kind of like fraud light .. something perfectly acceptable in the first century AD. and I explained to you what this was .. it is called "The sin of omission" if you wish a more technical term.
It is not some secret that Matt the Gospel of Mark as a source document -omitting a few passages derogatory to Jesus and/or the disciples ..
This is straight out of the "Catholic Encyclopedia"
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Gospel of St. Matthew
Detailed article about the first Gospelwww.newadvent.org
If you do not understand, just wait for his response.
This means what? It sounds suspiciously National Socialist.
You aren’t explaining how some Christians hijack the Tanakh and interpret in a different way and it makes better sense. Obviously your interpretation isn’t consistent with facts and knowledge. You offer no evidence why you assume your interpretation is true when facts say otherwise. If you have nothing just admit it. You ignoring my question only shows fear.
SavedByTheLord
Well-Known Member
Bizarre false accusations again. Do you any answers to any question at all besides a song and a dance?
Oh noes!!! Not the anti-Christ
If you do not understand, just wait for his response.
Oh I understand .. no idea how many times I have seen the "Thought Stopping" reaction triggered ... but, consider this
"Anti-Christ" -- -- >> let us presume .. as Fundi's will claim .. that the Tester .. the most cunning of decievers with God like powers .. is running around trying to trick and deceive humans. ... kind of like the Gov't has done with Covid
har har har .. couldn't resist .. my apologies. also .. this God .. a "Son of God" according to Job and other places. .. or call the entity an Angel .. doesn't matter .. still a God .. having God-like powers .. has power over the whole earth .. and in fact offers this to Jesus ... but he can not trick Jesus.
Lowly humans however --- quite a different story .. no ?! Do these Moron's think the big bad Sataniel is going to show up with Horns - Red Cape and a Tail ? .. would not be a very good deceiver now would he ?
and what do you think he might do to the 100% God Breathed version of Scripture ?
I keep a close eye on Christian fundamentalists who don't respect Jews, given the history of anti-Semitism. Feel free to show us in the Bible where the Jews are to be "cut". Make sure you explain what being "cut" means to the Jews. I haven't heard any of them acknowledge Christianity as valid and applicable to them.
Well your platform of asking questions is invalid, and I am pointing it out. If you had the truth then you would be able to show us. You can't. And otehrs have been answering your questions and you just dismiss them, which is a bad debate habit and bad manners. So I am challenging your weakness: your assumption that your interpretation of the Bible is absolute (it isn't).
Last edited:
And you respond by only posting Bible text? Oh the irony. The Bible text has no authority. Where is your explanation that your interpretation os correct? Only facts and data, no assumed interpretation.So there is no science or logic in your post
From Romans 11
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear
9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.
11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
What you neglected to provide was any authority any New Testament text has over Jews. They don't recognize it. What Christians believe is irrelevant to them. You can't force it on them. You haven't demonstrated your version of God exists, nor that it had anything to do with these texts, so Jews remain true to their beliefs, and their interpretation of the Tanakh remains valid, and your interpretation dismissed as self-serving.I was asked about
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear
9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.
11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee
i was asked about the Jews being cut off during the time since Christ, so of course I posted scripture
Sgt. Pepper
All you need is love.
I know that many Christians believe the Bible is authoritative, if not the final authority. However, it has no bearing on people who don't believe in it. In my opinion, Christians using the Bible to prove something they believe is true is analogous to someone using a tabloid magazine to prove Bigfoot is real.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
I am unsure if you know this but the extreme fundamentalists that produce YEC's also tend to believe that the Catholic Church is the Anti-Christ of Revelation. So when you used a Catholic source I can just imagine the response.Oh I understand .. no idea how many times I have seen the "Thought Stopping" reaction triggered ... but, consider this
"Anti-Christ" -- -- >> let us presume .. as Fundi's will claim .. that the Tester .. the most cunning of decievers with God like powers .. is running around trying to trick and deceive humans. ... kind of like the Gov't has done with Covid
also .. this God .. a "Son of God" according to Job and other places. .. or call the entity an Angel .. doesn't matter .. still a God .. having God-like powers .. has power over the whole earth .. and in fact offers this to Jesus ... but he can not trick Jesus.
Lowly humans however --- quite a different story .. no ?! Do these Moron's think the big bad Sataniel is going to show up with Horns - Red Cape and a Tail ? .. would not be a very good deceiver now would he ?
and what do you think he might do to the 100% God Breathed version of Scripture ?
This is my primary gripe with fundamentalist Christians. They assume an authority they don't actually have. Their beliefs are disrespectful, arrogant, and immoral. How many times have they assumed their beliefs apply to us, and without our approval? It's toxic religion.
Likely the Pot calling Kettle Black .. a case of a need to take log out of own eye ... but lest we not speculate further What of the "Uninspired" artistic license on the part of the Author of Matt that you are avoiding .. would you like some more lies to ponder ? how about from the OT - seems our friend Sataniel has been messing around .. you do believe that Satan messed with the Bible do you not ? did you think he would leave the 100% God Breathed version alone ? come now .. any good student of the Bible would have figured this one out.
the author of Matt wanting to soften the image of Jesus is nothing -- how about the lies ... the parts that are not 100% God Breathed .. how will you be able to sort out which is from God .. and which is not without the use of logic and reason and science and with plenty of denial.
For example ! Should we kill the child for the sin of the parents .. relatives .. or towns people ? What is the 100% God's word verdict on the issue ? As it turns out .. it depends what page of the Bible you turn to .. what mood God is in that day as in one place the Child not to be killed for the sin's of the Parents - A good rule .. part of the Rule of Law in fact --- one person not to be punished for the actions of another.
but then .. YHWH also commands that Children be put to death for the sins of the Parents .. the unborn as well .. fetuses to be killed.
Logic .. remember ? .. only two possibilities .. 1) one of these passages is a lie -- and is not Gods word. by direct contradiction .. only one can be true or 2) God YHWH Changed his mind from one page to the next .. being a flip flopping trickster God
Sgt. Pepper
All you need is love.
In my opinion, the God of the Bible is analogous to Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde.
The biblical God as Dr. Jekyll (calm, civilized, and wise):
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16
The biblical God as Mr. Hyde (sadistic, psychopathic, and bloodthirsty):
"Do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell." Matthew 10:28
Or maybe seize some infants and smash their heads against the rocks (Psalm 137:9), or how about killing some witches (Exodus 22:18) in a public witch burning? I hear Salem, Massachusetts, is nice this time of year. If we're going to follow the "Good Book" in regards to punishing people for their "sins" by killing them, then we will need to kill all the men, women, children, infants, cattle and sheep, camels, and donkeys (1 Samuel 15:2–3). Major massacre.
OK . First .. although I used a Catholic Source .. theProtestant and Orthodox Theologians say the same thing (sans the fundies and who knows or cares what they say .. can't really classify the Fundies as theologians) ,, and come to think of it .. most of the fundie theologians don't deny that the author of Matt used Mark as a source document .. they would however deny the "Pious Fraud" part .. somehow figuring that this God's will that the author of Matt or some such nonsense.-- that God and not the author is resonsible for the Pious Fraud / Artistic Licence
Now the "Anti Christ" this is something the Fudie's got right .. albeit mostly by accident .. and in a different sense what what is correct.
Revelations not-withstanding -- Jesus -- The Christ -expoused principles .. such as the Golden Rule --- "do unto others" "Log out of own eye" -"he without sin cast first rock" - "Love Neighbor" "Forgiveness .. and so on. One claiming to be a follower of Christ .. should try to follow.
The anti-Christ does the opposite -- like the awfull horror that was the Universal Church back in the Good old Days. On this the fundies will often cry no no no... The Spanish inquisition only killed so many .. and so on with the apology for atrocity .. like the apologizing for actions of Israel against the Pals ..
but let us not have any delusions .. that the Catholic Church was "Anti -Christ" usurping the positon of the Logos -- declaring "Pontifex Maximus" aka "The Awfull Horror" - "Abomination of Desolation" as spoken of by Christ.
King Phenomenon
Well-Known Member
These are the only kind of threads that get comments. When someone new comes along who is a yec. Sad
there were early christian groups that believe in such a duality .. YHWH was a demiurge .. it is not hard to see where they got such ideas from .. The God of Jesus is much the polar opposite of that YHWH fellow..
What is sad?