Then Christianity in general? I have suggested as much in the past...
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Canadian Indigenous group says more graves found at new site
- Thread starter McBell
- Start date
McBell
mantra-chanting henotheistic snake handler
Do not know.
Of course, not all the schools have been checked yet.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
As it stands it's the Catholic Church as of now.
I've read a bit about this. The similar programs that were run in the US were more extensive, and there is at least some reason to believe whatever the issues in Canada, there are the same issues in the States, but on a wider scale. Perhaps not surprising.
I've tried to do some quick research here (Australia) on the same issue. Certainly there was the taking of children for education in white ways (including religion), referred to here as 'The Stolen Generation'. And the abusive practices around mental and physical punishment, not allowing native language and customs to be passed down, destruction of records, etc, seems every bit as bad here as anywhere else.
What I haven't been able to find is any reputable claims around mass graves or killings. The timing of this lines up almost exactly with US and Canadian programs.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Looks like the Pope is not at all prepared to formally apologize on behalf of the church, even when confronted with this latest evidence that is frankly, in their own backyard.
Pope comes up short of an apology for Canada mass grave | DW | 06.06.2021
How the Catholic Church stays solvent after all this .... what's next?
Pope comes up short of an apology for Canada mass grave | DW | 06.06.2021
How the Catholic Church stays solvent after all this .... what's next?
SOmething that is being left out is these schools were all state sanctioned by the Canadian Government, who is trying to get off scot free as if they have nothing to do with it, the Catholics didn't just go in and steal these kids from their land, the government did and ordered it
Then you have to remember that each school had thousands of thousands of students over about 100 years time, with the rate of death for children from disease being much greater 50 or 100 years ago, I haven't seen any evidence that these children were actually murdered as opposed to dying from disease that perhaps were not being treated very well, only time will tell, If the dead children were given marked graves does that make it less of a tragedy, maybe not.
Then you have to remember that each school had thousands of thousands of students over about 100 years time, with the rate of death for children from disease being much greater 50 or 100 years ago, I haven't seen any evidence that these children were actually murdered as opposed to dying from disease that perhaps were not being treated very well, only time will tell, If the dead children were given marked graves does that make it less of a tragedy, maybe not.
epronovost
Well-Known Member
Actually the Canadian government did present solemn apologies in 2015 for its role in those schools and also agreed to about 3.23 billions in settlement to about 25K claimants. While not all that much, it's not "scot free". The Catholic Church hasn't done half as much for equal responsibility. Plus, many congregation actually illegaly sold the land on which the parish and schools were built when they left. Not only did the Church helped rob Native children. They also robbed them of their land, most often through stupidity than callousness though.
Viker
Häxan
Turning this into an anti-Catholic issue is sort of shallow. Considering that both Canadian and US tax payer money went to fund these death camps. So many denominations were in on it. The only issue of now that can be drawn is the greater need for further separation of church and state. Defund religion!
Your average person was guilty as well, for the most part. It was systemic racism by most, if not all of the pioneers. That lasted for a long time. I remember going to Town and Country hockey tournaments in the 60s as a kid. There were usually several indigenous reserve teams there, and it was no problem to not server them at the canteen. Getting a hotel room was hard. My Dad, partly due to the war experience, was a bit of an exception, as I recall. He hired a young Metis lad from north of us. I remember him well, as after some long hours out on the tractor, he's play catch with me. I was a pitcher, and wanted anybody to catch. He'd come to the river and swim, and was a nice guy. But Dad took some heat from the community for hiring a _____ _______ too.
My brother, the local graveyard custodian (I told this before, but who cares) told of an unmarked grave just outside the cemetery boundary. The young man took sick while camped with his indigenous family and the local church board (United Church of Canada) refused to allow him to be buried inside the graveyard. This was in the 40s. But today's board decided to shift the fence over to include that grave, so it never gets dug up accidentally.
My brother, the local graveyard custodian (I told this before, but who cares) told of an unmarked grave just outside the cemetery boundary. The young man took sick while camped with his indigenous family and the local church board (United Church of Canada) refused to allow him to be buried inside the graveyard. This was in the 40s. But today's board decided to shift the fence over to include that grave, so it never gets dug up accidentally.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
That would be valid if other institutions produced the same causality rate and mass burials were commonplace then.
It appears too localized and unique at this point to think the Catholics at the time knew they were doing something heinous, covering it up and never mentioning to anybody aside from each other they had mass graves of dead children.
My mind immediately thinks of concentration camps.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I guess that would require additional evidences across the board. Like dating the bones to see if it was over time, or close together.
It's a possibility, but right now it's pretty damming for the Catholics. Especially since this was a shock on something that for all intents and porpoises, screams of a cover up, for which the Catholics would have never mentioned about this at all were it not discovered and reported.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
I fail to understand or comprehend how they can have anyone still left following it after all the molested and dead kids, in modern times, and the cover ups and downplaying and dismissing these crimes. And what's worse is the world does nothing and allows the Vatican to harbor and shield such people. Tradition is one thing, but this tradition is built on the bones, blood, and tears of countless men, women, and children for about 2,000 years now.
epronovost
Well-Known Member
@Twilight Hue
It's not exactly cover up. Abuse and excess deaths were already decried in those schools as early as 1904. A government sponsored commission in the 70's was also damning, talking about insalubrity, physical abuse, poor or even absent medical treatments. The reality is that the abuse perpetrated in those boarding schools were never a secret. It's just each time someone spoke about it and decried it, nothing was done but empty promises to "improve the situation" and that's when the reports were not simply shelved and the wider public didn't stay engaged to push for actual change. It's the result of the "cruelty of the mundane". It's a common theme in the oppression of minorities.
It's not exactly cover up. Abuse and excess deaths were already decried in those schools as early as 1904. A government sponsored commission in the 70's was also damning, talking about insalubrity, physical abuse, poor or even absent medical treatments. The reality is that the abuse perpetrated in those boarding schools were never a secret. It's just each time someone spoke about it and decried it, nothing was done but empty promises to "improve the situation" and that's when the reports were not simply shelved and the wider public didn't stay engaged to push for actual change. It's the result of the "cruelty of the mundane". It's a common theme in the oppression of minorities.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I never heard of mass graves of children at a religious school until now and at this massive scale.
Is there something that can be compared to this to show its not something that's irregular?
Are there non Catholic schools that harbor the same thing?
You have to admit, mass graves of hundreds of dead children in one's backyard is pretty damming no matter how you look at it.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
There's no question the History of the Catholic Church is paved with blood and death.
My zillion dollar questions are as to why Catholics don't disclose what historically happened, and why the Pope when, approached on the matter, is refusing to apologize on behalf of the church?
epronovost
Well-Known Member
It's very damning and the abuse and cruelty of those schools are unprecedented. Those lead by protestant, while much less numerous, were about as terrible. That you never heard of it until now is probably due to a personal lack of interest in Canadian history, especially, Native history. The public was generally not interested in those subjects. It's easy to ignore horror when its far away and unknown.
Beginning in 1819 and continuing through 1969, the U.S. government provided the resources and logistical support for the schools, and religious groups, including the Catholic Church, were among the willing recipients. According to the National Native American Boarding School Healing Coalition, by 1926 there were 357 schools in 30 states with more than 60,000 children. Catholic religious orders here in the United States administered 84 of the schools. The Society of Jesus managed four of them.
The Department of Interior is for the first time in U.S. history being led by a Native American. Secretary of the Interior Deb Haaland has ordered an investigation into the history of these schools and a search for graves of children who may have perished at them.
U.S. bishops respond to Interior Department investigation of Native American boarding schools | America Magazine
I recently watch a movie concerning this.
Indian Horse. 2017 | TV-MA | 1h 40m | Social Issue Dramas. Stripped of his heritage at a residential school, an indigenous student finds refuge on the rink when he discovers a passion for hockey. Starring: Sladen Peltier, Forrest Goodluck, Ajuawak Kapashesit. Its on Netflix
The Department of Interior is for the first time in U.S. history being led by a Native American. Secretary of the Interior Deb Haaland has ordered an investigation into the history of these schools and a search for graves of children who may have perished at them.
U.S. bishops respond to Interior Department investigation of Native American boarding schools | America Magazine
I recently watch a movie concerning this.
Indian Horse. 2017 | TV-MA | 1h 40m | Social Issue Dramas. Stripped of his heritage at a residential school, an indigenous student finds refuge on the rink when he discovers a passion for hockey. Starring: Sladen Peltier, Forrest Goodluck, Ajuawak Kapashesit. Its on Netflix
McBell
mantra-chanting henotheistic snake handler
Back when the PPP was hitting the headline pretty hard I read an opinion piece by someone who said, and I do not remember the exact words, something along the lines of:
A person gets attacked by a shark and no one will go into the water for months.
Which is interesting cause after it was revealed that a church allowed hundreds of priests over hundreds of years to molest young boys and even shuffled them around to provide them fresh meat and no one bats an eye.
Which is interesting cause after it was revealed that a church allowed hundreds of priests over hundreds of years to molest young boys and even shuffled them around to provide them fresh meat and no one bats an eye.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
The shark thing is interesting. People weren't scared of it like we today after the release of Jaws. And that's fake, with shark attacks being rare.
But after nearly 2000 years of torture, slaughter, rape, oppression and all manner of abuses the Catholic Church is still massively loved, defended, and followed amd it's acknowledged as sovereign by most nations.