Can we move the DIR to the "Other Religious Movements" section?

[1137]

Like Thelema, I think it is short sited to label Luciferianism as "LHP". I can only imagine that it is here because of the incorrect associations with Satanism, especially considering there was no overview until more recent members arrived. If we look into the topic we find that it varies very greatly, often times straying quite far from the stereotypical " LHP" image. The open nature of it and of its archetypes also leave it open to great interpretation. A Christian could be a Luciferian while using Jesus as their main archetype if they interpret his word as preaching internal power and such, as many Christians do. Buddha could be one, and he was clearly not "LHP".

I think that since this is primarily an educational forum we should do our best to help educate interested individuals. Just being in the LHP DIR is damaging to the education on what Luciferianism is, it gives a false idea. I liked that Thelema was put in the other DIR rather than here because it can be taken many ways. I think the Luciferian DIR should follow suit.

 

[LuciaStar]

Like Thelema, I think it is short sited to label Luciferianism as "LHP". I can only imagine that it is here because of the incorrect associations with Satanism, especially considering there was no overview until more recent members arrived. If we look into the topic we find that it varies very greatly, often times straying quite far from the stereotypical " LHP" image. The open nature of it and of its archetypes also leave it open to great interpretation. A Christian could be a Luciferian while using Jesus as their main archetype if they interpret his word as preaching internal power and such, as many Christians do. Buddha could be one, and he was clearly not "LHP".

I think that since this is primarily an educational forum we should do our best to help educate interested individuals. Just being in the LHP DIR is damaging to the education on what Luciferianism is, it gives a false idea. I liked that Thelema was put in the other DIR rather than here because it can be taken many ways. I think the Luciferian DIR should follow suit.

I have to agree with you. While my beliefs and values are influenced by the LHP (can't be helped with how much I studied it the past 6 years...), it doesn't mean it's strictly LHP either. Heck, I see Jesus as a Luciferian figure too! Just the things he preaches and does screams a Luciferian figure to me. It's not very LHP of me, is it? But it does show that if a being/person shows the values of Luciferianism, then they're also a Luciferian figure and/or archetype.

So while some Luciferians might be LHP, not all Luciferians are LHP and I think... LHP is kind of a flimsy thing to use for Luciferians since we're not exactly the face you would see in the LHP paths. Can be, and we may have some LHP in us, but not always.

Sorry if it's incoherent or repeating phrases, it's 7AM and I got woken up by a Thunderstorm about 6AM. :x Just calming my nerves right now.

 

[1137]

Actually, one of the main reasons I always question the Luciferian path was because of this very topic. It seemed that it was neither left nor right, and I once saw the association with only the LHP as a failing of the path, not the people. Of course, in reality, it's the people.

 

[LuciaStar]

Actually, one of the main reasons I always question the Luciferian path was because of this very topic. It seemed that it was neither left nor right

I think that's a good way of putting it, actually. Lucifer isn't strictly good nor evil, left or right and Luciferianism [should] reflects that. A Luciferian can do "good" or "evil", can be deemed as "left" or "right" or both of them but to varying degrees, kind of like the Light Bringer the path bears the name of.

It's a grey area with the LHP and rather categorized when on it's own. You can't claim it to be a right hand path as it doesn't share the same components of such a path, but it can lean there. In the same light, you can't call it a left hand path since it may share same components at times but not always. I think it's deemed as a LHP path because most see it as a path related to Satanism. That or they're just trying to stuff it in a category and LHP is close enough haha.

 

[1137]

I think that's a good way of putting it, actually. Lucifer isn't strictly good nor evil, left or right and Luciferianism [should] reflects that. A Luciferian can do "good" or "evil", can be deemed as "left" or "right" or both of them but to varying degrees, kind of like the Light Bringer the path bears the name of.

It's a grey area with the LHP and rather categorized when on it's own. You can't claim it to be a right hand path as it doesn't share the same components of such a path, but it can lean there. In the same light, you can't call it a left hand path since it may share same components at times but not always. I think it's deemed as a LHP path because most see it as a path related to Satanism. That or they're just trying to stuff it in a category and LHP is close enough haha.

Exactly.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

To be honest, I think Luciferianism DIR has already damaged education on what it is. I remember a while ago there was a huge disagreement on what Luciferianism actually was, and it went from being debates in the DIR to a DIR Civil War. So much nonsense was spoken, so much "I'm right, you're wrong" and "That isn't true Luciferianism" and I think most, if not all, participants can be blamed for it, I had part in it as well quite honestly. In retrospect, it was that war that damaged the truth about Luciferianism. Everyone had different understandings of it, and it wasn't those various understandings that wasn't true to Luciferianism, but rather it was the comments made to each other.

This DIR is pretty much a totaled vehicle, the only way it'd ever be fixed is to pretty much start from scratch, build a new one. That just seems like a waste of time to me, and probably not a good idea.

My opinion is that we should leave it as it is.

And besides; I don't see how Luciferianism could be anything but a left hand path. It is commonly associated with Occultism, it has open dogma... It may have a humanistic hum to it, but not enough to view it as a right hand path. It still focuses highly on an individual's potential. It doesn't rely on outer forces to determine a set moral code.

Arcadic Luciferianism seems very close to falling out of being a LHP, but many aspects of Luciferianism in general seem to point their finger to the left.

 

[1137]

It doesn't have to be strictly LHP because of ideals such as spreading knowledge, creating a better world, RHP light bearers (Jesus, Buddha, Moses, and the like), and other such reasons. Especially considering a close tie Luciferianism and gnosticism, which is pretty much strictly RHP. The more important point being Luciferianism often doesn't even hold to the primitive L/RHP distinction.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

It doesn't have to be strictly LHP because of ideals such as spreading knowledge, creating a better world, RHP light bearers (Jesus, Buddha, Moses, and the like), and other such reasons. Especially considering a close tie Luciferianism and gnosticism, which is pretty much strictly RHP. The more important point being Luciferianism often doesn't even hold to the primitive L/RHP distinction.

Yeah and I never said those ideals made it strictly LHP, I'm talking about the ideals such as apotheosis or tenets relating to that. It seems to be more about a philosophy for the self, even if its goal is for humanity.

 

[1137]

Yeah and I never said those ideals made it strictly LHP, I'm talking about the ideals such as apotheosis or tenets relating to that. It seems to be more about a philosophy for the self, even if its goal is for humanity.

No Luciferian archetype ever "became God". Where's apotheosis come from?

 

[LuciaStar]

Yeah and I never said those ideals made it strictly LHP, I'm talking about the ideals such as apotheosis or tenets relating to that. It seems to be more about a philosophy for the self, even if its goal is for humanity.

Apotheosis doesn't appeal to me and for that reason I've pulled away from labeling as Luciferian. Now, I find the concept interesting but it doesn't hold merit in the path I am walking on.

However, I do hold the value of enlightenment and with that also seeking knowledge and self-development and can be related to apotheosis but... since apotheosis doesn't have much merit or value to me, I don't apply them in that fashion.

So the real question here -- if I don't hold the ideals of apotheosis but still hold the ideals of enlightenment, am I someone who is influenced by Luciferianism or someone who is Luciferian?

I think such a question can show the fluidity of Luciferianism. If not that, then take a look at the varying beliefs of Luciferianism. It can certainly be an LHP path but the individual Luciferian might hold values that aren't exactly LHP. Some could very well be on the middle ground of RHP and LHP.

Or maybe I don't have a clear understanding of Luciferianism, which is likely with how individual the path can be. What would the common tenets be then that connects individual Luciferians?

Not trying to debate or anything, I'm literally just rambling and placing my thoughts down hah.

 

[Iti oj]

look at what happened to Prometheus look what happened to Jesus. All Lucifers walk against the grain I say its LHP. but i don't think its really ether though.

 

[Iti oj]

Perhaps Luciferian can be come a major section with sub sections for lhp ad rhp and none sided path luciferians.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Perhaps Luciferian can be come a major section with sub sections for lhp ad rhp and none sided path luciferians.

That's a good idea. This could DIR could certainly be moved because the "RHP vs. LHP" dichotomy isn't very meaningful to me and I'm sick of the fighting over the terms. It just creates another form of groupthink. Personally, I feel more "at home" in the Paganism DIRs at this time.