james bond
Well-Known Member
Of course not. I just want GMO to be labeled just like irradiated and pasteurized foods.
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Can Randomness and Chance cause the Evolution of life?
- Thread starter shunyadragon
- Start date
Of course not. I just want GMO to be labeled just like irradiated and pasteurized foods.
james bond
Well-Known Member
Here's a question: If GMO modied foods are safe, then can we release GMO salmon to feed orcas?
Orcas are an endangered species
Critically endangered orcas have governor’s, tribe’s attention
Orcas are an endangered species
Critically endangered orcas have governor’s, tribe’s attention
Audie
Veteran Member
Ok, I'm with you on that.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Audie
Veteran Member
Good God woman! Don't you know what that does to ants?!?
Then too, Godzilla, and actually Frankenstein as well, after they sent his
heart in a Nazi submarine, keeping it alive in methyl salicylate.
Ionizing radiation can be good, it made F grow a giant new body, but he also
became a good guy, battled Codzilla. I heard about that.
james bond
Well-Known Member
Good God woman! Don't you know what that does to ants?!?
Using DNA methylation, some scientists did make ants grow larger.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Possible, but by how much?
james bond
Well-Known Member
Knock yourself out.
Epigenetic variation in the <i>Egfr</i> gene generates quantitative variation in a complex trait in ants
DNA methylation
james bond
Well-Known Member
Ionizing radiation aside, these gen mod scientists are doing those kind of weird experiments and more. They're already using humans and the environment for testing.
Audie
Veteran Member
Oh?
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
So not large enough to ride.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
"Weird" appears to be experiments beyond your understanding. Though human use is currently not used due to scientists wanting to avoid the ethical problems of human experimentation it does appear that some in China did not follow that proscription:
"
Human germline modification[edit]
On Jan 21, 2018, The Wall Street Journal reported that 86 people in China have had their genes edited using CRISPR.[217][218]
At least four labs in the US, labs in China and the UK, and a US biotechnology company called Ovascience announced plans for ongoing research to apply CRISPR to human embryos.[219] Scientists, including a CRISPR co-inventor, urged a worldwide moratorium on applying CRISPR to the human germline, especially for clinical use. They said "scientists should avoid even attempting, in lax jurisdictions, germline genome modification for clinical application in humans" until the full implications "are discussed among scientific and governmental organizations".[51][220] These scientists support basic research on CRISPR and do not see CRISPR as developed enough for any clinical use in making heritable changes to humans.[221]
In April 2015, Chinese scientists reported results of an attempt to alter the DNA of non-viable human embryos using CRISPR to correct a mutation that causes beta thalassemia, a lethal heritable disorder.[222][223] The study had previously been rejected by both Nature and Science in part because of ethical concerns.[224] The experiments resulted in changing only some genes, and had off-target effects on other genes. The researchers stated that CRISPR is not ready for clinical application in reproductive medicine.[224] In April 2016 Chinese scientists were reported to have made a second unsuccessful attempt to alter the DNA of non-viable human embryos using CRISPR - this time to alter the CCR5 gene to make the embryo HIV resistant.[225]
In December 2015, an International Summit on Human Gene Editing took place in Washington under the guidance of David Baltimore. Members of national scientific academies of America, Britain and China discussed the ethics of germline modification. They agreed to support basic and clinical research under appropriate legal and ethical guidelines. A specific distinction was made between somatic cells, where the effects of edits are limited to a single individual, versus germline cells, where genome changes could be inherited by future generations. Heritable modifications could have unintended and far-reaching consequences for human evolution, genetically (e.g. gene/environment interactions) and culturally (e.g. Social Darwinism). Altering of gametocytes and embryos to generate inheritable changes in humans was defined to be irresponsible. The group agreed to initiate an international forum to address such concerns and harmonize regulations across countries.[226]"
CRISPR - Wikipedia
New technology can be frightening. Scientists are being rather cautious for the most part (the Chinese weren't, but it appears to have saved some lives).
I can sympathize with how the unknown may strike fear in your heart. But this video should help to allay those fears. Please note, it is all a capella:
james bond
Well-Known Member
GMO foods are supposedly safe according to food scientists, but it includes eating low levels of pesticides that have been placed into the food itself. These toxins kill insects, but are safe for humans. Also, they have engineered the plants to be resistant to Monsanto's Roundup and other herbicides. Subsequent plantings need to use more and more Roundup spraying because the weeds develop a resistance. This excessive Roundup spraying ends up putting more toxins in the GMO food since the excess Roundup gets absorbed by the plant and the excess is also released into its environment. People living near the excess spraying of Roundup report genetic disorders of the farm animals and an increase in human health problems and cancer. There have been also complaints of excess Roundup in the environment killing necessary insects such as honeybees, butterflies, small mammals, birds, fish, invertebrates (including earthworms), soil microbes and more. GMO food critics want GMO labeling, so they know what GMO foods or ingredients they are eating. Thus, they could monitor it if any problems or discrepancies show up to humans or to the environment. Even if one chooses to eat just non-GMO or organic foods, there is no guarantee that they won't eat GMO crops because the GMO could be part of the ingredient going into it or the nutrition and warning labeling is not always provided such as eating in a restaurant.
Here's a good neutral video explaining more of the issues.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Yes, a good video. Please note the only possible problem that it brings up is the abuse of Roundup. You have yet to substantiate any of your medical claims about Roundup. What is more worrisome is that weeds will develop a resistance to the chemical, life always does.
james bond
Well-Known Member
One "weird" experiment is Monsanto buying up a company that genetically modifies honey bees when the complaints of honey bees dying and CCD from beekeepers came in from around the world. They were ready to GM the bees so they would be resistant to Roundup and pesticides. Here are some more "weird" experiments and its results.
7 GMO Foods That Will Blow Your Mind
7 GMO Foods That Will Blow Your Mind
james bond
Well-Known Member
Weeds have already become superweeds and more Roundup and herbicides are needed to fight it. It's in our food and environment and we are human guinea pigs. I don't want to eat excess Roundup and be a human guinea pig, so am avoiding GMO foods as best as I can. Also, GMO corn and soybeans (about 85% used around world) are in the feed of meat producers, so already it's in our meats and other foods.
There's also complaints against fish farming coming in from around the world. The fish farms use chemicals and genetic modification to fight against bacteria, viruses and disease that kill their fish. The genetic modification done to protect their fish contain these chemicals that help fight the invaders and excess use of antibiotics leads the invaders developing resistance. This leads to a more powerful bacteria, viruses and diseases and more chemicals and antibiotics required to treat the ill fish. Sound familiar? Furthermore, the farmed fish isn't always labeled, so it's difficult to know the fish you are buying or eating has been farmed and has excess chemicals and antibiotics. These fish are shipped thousands of miles around the world like our GMO foods and have already damaged the ecosystems around these farms.
james bond
Well-Known Member
Hey @Subduction Zone @ChristineM, my evolution site has major complaints about GMO foods due to evolutionary changes and reactions it causes. It's genetic engineering vs evolution. They're taking the cautious approach. The second link discusses Monsanto.
Genetic engineering vs. evolution
The evolution behind an agricultural showdown in Arkansas
GMOs struggle to stay one step ahead of evolution
"Superweed" discovered in Britain?
Refuges of genetic variation: controlling crop pest evolution
Genetic engineering vs. evolution
The evolution behind an agricultural showdown in Arkansas
GMOs struggle to stay one step ahead of evolution
"Superweed" discovered in Britain?
Refuges of genetic variation: controlling crop pest evolution
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
What "major complaints"? They only point out the obvious. That life evolves to overcome obstacles.
Evolution happens, sorry you dont like it
Audie
Veteran Member
A couple of thoughts-
The "superweeds" your refer to are, I think, misnamed,
and to call them that is misleading.
I was not around for it, but I am told that in DDT days,
files became resistant to DDT. They were referred to then as, yes, "superfiles".
As a biology prof explained it though, the housefiy is about as close to perfect, as is, as any organism can be.
Thus, the metabolic compromises necessary for them
to be able to process DDT did enable them to survive
in that hostile environment, but, at some cost.
When DDT stopped being used, the files quickly reverted to non-immune.
I think the weeds you speak of would do the same.
Environmental damage associated with fish farms
includes such things as disrupting the sex ratio of central american crocodiles. In the event, they do a lot of harm, everywhere. The genetic modification of the fish raised may well be the least of the harm or potential harm.
One who reads about the history or radium and how
recklessly it was used might wonder how it applies to
GM,
In general, I agree with you that it is risky shyt, and
that the big corporations / fellow travelloer politicians
are no more to be trusted implicitly than, say, big tobacco with its pet politicans and researcher-minions.
Your pal subz kind of just likes to argue.