Can Any Christian Here Explain Why Gnosticism Is Wrong With Evidence ?

[Ebionite]

Knowledge is mental… faith is spiritual - unless you can explain it better on how the two are connected.

The west perceives the mind be to separate from the heart, but in Hebrew idiom the heart is the seat of the intellect as well as the seat of the emotions. The heart is obviously something physical, not spiritual. Spirit isn't necessarily aligned with truth, eg the lying spirit of 1 Kings 22:22.

The ideal of faith in the Christian tradition draws from Genesis 15:
And [Abram] believed in YHWH; and he counted it to him for righteousness.
Genesis 15:6

This connects to the well-known chapter about the righteous servant, but the language is of gnosis (knowledge) rather than belief:

He shall see of the travail of his soul, [and] shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
Isaiah 53:11

The idea that faith is spiritual draws from doctrine from John, but this word "is" is an interpolation, making the doctrine unreliable.

God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.
John 4:24, KJV

 

[Kenny]

The west perceives the mind be to separate from the heart, but in Hebrew idiom the heart is the seat of the intellect as well as the seat of the emotions. The heart is obviously something physical, not spiritual. Spirit isn't necessarily aligned with truth, eg the lying spirit of 1 Kings 22:22.

The spirit and the soul (mind, intellect, emotions) are two individual parts but make up the heart.

The Holy Spirit is part of God and is always aligned with the truth. Man’s spirit must be born again to be aligned with God’s Spirit (John 3)

The ideal of faith in the Christian tradition draws from Genesis 15:
And [Abram] believed in YHWH; and he counted it to him for righteousness.
Genesis 15:6

Yes!

This connects to the well-known chapter about the righteous servant, but the language is of gnosis (knowledge) rather than belief:

No The righteous walk by faith and not by knowledge as Jesus said to the Pharisees… you have a lot of knowledge but you don’t know the Father

He shall see of the travail of his soul, [and] shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
Isaiah 53:11

Yes… Jesus bore our iniquities

The idea that faith is spiritual draws from doctrine from John, but this word "is" is an interpolation, making the doctrine unreliable.

Actually… no. John, the disciple that Jesus loved and was taught by, understood quite clearly the Gospel as it was the disciples brought His message

Habakkuk 2:4 nBehold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.

Genesis 15:6 And he believed in the Lord; and he counted it to him for righteousness. (faith is believing)

Numbers 14: The LORD said to Moses, "How long will this people spurn Me? And how long will they not believe in Me, despite all the signs which I have performed in their midst?

Faith is the spiritual force of man (given by God). Knowledge is the strength of the Soul. Muscles is the powerhouse of the body.

And now you see what Gnosticism and the message of Christ don’t mix.

God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.
John 4:24, KJV

Yes… and without faith it is impossible to please God. Worship in the spirit is a worship in faith. Yes, you can and should also employ your soul and body… knowledge, emotions, mind, will and bodily strength.

 

[Ebionite]

The spirit and the soul (mind, intellect, emotions) are two individual parts but make up the heart.

Can you reference any text that supports that?

 

[Kenny]

Can you reference any text that supports that?

Gen 2:7 - living soul - nephesh - some 750 times
Psalm 146:7 - spirit - ruach - some 350 time

Both are separate and distinct but make up man as one.

The word “heart” and what it means depends on the sentence structure. many applications

But certainly the position of material being evil (gnosticism) - is not biblical in either of the testaments - given evidence but ignored.

 

[Bthoth]

I always see Christians insulting Gnosticism like they do with the new age movement but I have yet to see any Christians give real evidence as to why Gnosticism or new ageism are wrong. I think Christians just simply hate and are afraid of Gnosticism and new ageism because they aren't Christianity.

Actually if chrisians read the book of thomas, many would evolve with the gnostic ideology. The spiritual angle by applying the concepts to practical application.

 

[Kenny]

Actually if chrisians read the book of thomas, many would evolve with the gnostic ideology. The spiritual angle by applying the concepts to practical application.

Yes.. the book of Thomas (not Thomas the disciple) - is a push towards Gnosticism and is why it isn’t accepted by standard Christian academia.

 

[Ebionite]

Gen 2:7 - living soul - nephesh - some 750 times

You said: "The spirit and the soul (mind, intellect, emotions) are two individual parts but make up the heart."

There's nothing about mind, intellect, emotions, or heart in your proof text.

And YHWH Elohim formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Genesis 2:7

 

[Ebionite]

Actually if chrisians read the book of thomas, many would evolve with the gnostic ideology. The spiritual angle by applying the concepts to practical application.

There's a lot valuabe material in the GoT. Even the introduction is useful, since it emphasises the twin.

Matthew 26​
31	Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad.

Zechariah 13​
7	Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man (גבך) [that is] my fellow, saith YHWH of armies: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.

https://dev.clonehost.net/torah-d1/pages/twin.html#s14

 

[Kenny]

You said: "The spirit and the soul (mind, intellect, emotions) are two individual parts but make up the heart."

There's nothing about mind, intellect, emotions, or heart in your proof text.

And YHWH Elohim formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Genesis 2:7

I know you want to talk about definitions and applications...

But I want to talk about

First, it espouses a dualism regarding spirit and matter. Gnostics assert that matter is inherently evil and spirit is good. As a result of this presupposition, Gnostics believe anything done in the body, even the grossest sin, has no meaning because real life exists in the spirit realm only.

In light of...

Can Any Christian Here Explain Why Gnosticism Is Wrong With Evidence ?​

Maybe start a different thread?

 

[Ebionite]

I know you want to talk about definitions and applications...

No, you've shown that your beliefs don't have any basis in the Tanak.

 

[Kenny]

No, you've shown that your beliefs don't have any basis in the Tanak.

Hmmm…. it was “Christianity” and not “Judaism”… Start another thread? Redo your title?

 

[Ebionite]

Hmmm…. it was “Christianity” and not “Judaism”… Start another thread? Redo your title?

You picked verses from the Tanak. You get to own your error.

 

[Bthoth]

Yes.. the book of Thomas (not Thomas the disciple) - is a push towards Gnosticism and is why it isn’t accepted by standard Christian academia.

Because it is designated as non cannon. But if people read the material, they can see for themselves. I am one that comprehends that people DO NOT need an authority to tell them what is true or good.

 

[Bthoth]

There's a lot valuabe material in the GoT. Even the introduction is useful, since it emphasises the twin.

Matthew 26​
31	Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad.

Zechariah 13​
7	Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man (גבך) [that is] my fellow, saith YHWH of armies: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.

https://dev.clonehost.net/torah-d1/pages/twin.html#s14

Yes, knowledge does have value. Helping people understand that they are capable is step one.

The sword is not the best answer. Be certain, if ww3 occurs, there will be a nasty discrimination for the religiously obtuse/ignorant.

 

[Ebionite]

Yes, knowledge does have value. Helping people understand that they are capable is step one.

The Gospel of Thomas seems to be pretty cryptic, but there are associations between the words that it uses and words that appear in the books of the prophets.

Hint: Psalm 35 and Isaiah 53 are both about the righteous servant.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

I always see Christians insulting Gnosticism like they do with the new age movement but I have yet to see any Christians give real evidence as to why Gnosticism or new ageism are wrong. I think Christians just simply hate and are afraid of Gnosticism and new ageism because they aren't Christianity.

Here's the way I understand it: modern Christianity doesn't accept Gnosticism because Gnosticism doesn't have the correct cosmology. That is, to Christians the Creator God is the only God, who dwells in the highest heaven and is maximally good and wise.

There are a number of Gnostic varieties, but the common theme seems to be that there is the one, true, pure, unknowable alien God that is true, and then there is the Creator God of this material realm, who is a flawed and imperfect lesser divinity. Humans all carry a divine spark that links them to the Unknowable True God, but those sparks have been caught up in the crass material of the physical universe.

In Christianity, Jesus came to free us from our sins. In Gnosticism, Jesus came to teach the path to returning to the True divine realm of the loving but Unknowable true God.

At least that's the way I understand it.

 

[Ebionite]

That is, to Christians the Creator God is the only God, who dwells in the highest heaven and is maximally good and wise.

There was a problem with that cosmology back in the day (verse 3).

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I always see Christians insulting Gnosticism like they do with the new age movement but I have yet to see any Christians give real evidence as to why Gnosticism or new ageism are wrong. I think Christians just simply hate and are afraid of Gnosticism and new ageism because they aren't Christianity.

My understanding is that Gnosticism has two main features. The first is the belief that matter is evil and only spirit is good. The second is that we are saved by having secret esoteric knowledge.

The burden is not on Christians to show that Gnosticism is wrong. Rather, the burden is on Gnostics to show they are right.

 

[Massimo2002]

My understanding is that Gnosticism has two main features. The first is the belief that matter is evil and only spirit is good. The second is that we are saved by having secret esoteric knowledge.

The burden is not on Christians to show that Gnosticism is wrong. Rather, the burden is on Gnostics to show they are right.

The physical world is evil that is my proof.

 

[Bthoth]

The Gospel of Thomas seems to be pretty cryptic, but there are associations between the words that it uses and words that appear in the books of the prophets.

Hint: Psalm 35 and Isaiah 53 are both about the righteous servant.

Of course, it is a part of the Judaic tree of religions. aka... abrahamic.

Much is about the unveiling.

Here is an example:

4. Jesus said, "The person old in days won't hesitate to ask a little child seven days old about the place of life, and that person will live.

For many of the first will be last, and will become a single one."

5. Jesus said, "Know what is in front of your face, and what is hidden from you will be disclosed to you.

For there is nothing hidden that will not be revealed. [And there is nothing buried that will not be raised.]"

6. His disciples asked him and said to him, "Do you want us to fast? How should we pray? Should we give to charity? What diet should we observe?"

Jesus said, "Don't lie, and don't do what you hate, because all things are disclosed before heaven. After all, there is nothing hidden that will not be revealed, and there is nothing covered up that will remain undisclosed."