Can a religion be said to be 'true' if only 1 out of a million can do it?

[74x12]

I'm talking about the NT. It seems to me that being saved is almost impossible.
First, there's the 'hard' statements by Jesus that counsel plucking out eyes and cutting off things if one even looks or thinks wrong. Then there's the eye of the needle-type statements. Then there's the kind of statements outside the Gospels such as, “If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,” (Hebrews 10:26).
You may say the holy spirit will change your heart. Fine. I've heard this answer. Tell it to your Christian neighbors and see if they don't crucify you because I highly doubt that one out of a million have been changed enough to the point where they cease doing things mentioned by Jesus as things they shouldn't be doing ('sinning').
If you can somehow 'save' this religion from being just for the very very very few, I would like to know how you can do it.

But in context Hebrews 10:26 is about judgment day. See verse 25 where you see "that day approaching". That is basically the day one dies or is judged. So it's saying if you die in sins then there will be no more sacrifice for you. It's not saying that you can never sin once after being saved. In other words it is to correct people who believe they're "once saved always saved".
While you're alive there is hope you may repent and be forgiven. Just see Jesus' parable of the prodigal son.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

Very provocative. I know about that chapter in Ephesians. I don't think there's anything like that in the Tora. I think there's only one verse in the rest of the OT, and that's in Jeremiah about being known before he was born. So that one verse in Jeremiah is dwarfed by many many more that explicitly talk about choice/free will.
(Jews hold that the Tora is much more important than the rest of the OT)
Anyway, the Ephesians predestination stuff seems to me to fit well with the 'hard' sayings I cited in my opening post. Both seem to me to be outrageous (Paul's 'foolishness'?), but I have to respect the boldness of them. It feels like going all in with only an Ace high.
You say you are 'smart' because you understand this. I'd like to hear more of your 'smartness' on this predestination subject. I'd like to be smart too (or is it, I'd like to be foolish?)
I know the basic 'God is omniscient' argument. Is that what you mean?
If that's what you mean, I try not to think about it, although I can't refute it.
I guess one big problem for me (one big reason I can never be a Christian) is that the NT says that it's all predestined AND it talks about hell a lot-- two things the OT is almost silent on. I 'can't' worship a God who predestines one to hell and heaven (if that's what Ephesians is doing). But I'm willing to hear anything you can say in defense of it- although how can you defend 'foolishness' as Paul says it is, although you imply that it's for "people who are smart enough"

God said it's not his will that any should perish, but that all should come to the knowledge of the truth. He said it was for whosoever will.
It is the plan of God that is predestined. The choice is up to us what we do. Whether we choose to obey his plan or not.

 

[Nova2216]

I'm talking about the NT. It seems to me that being saved is almost impossible.
First, there's the 'hard' statements by Jesus that counsel plucking out eyes and cutting off things if one even looks or thinks wrong. Then there's the eye of the needle-type statements. Then there's the kind of statements outside the Gospels such as, “If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,” (Hebrews 10:26).
You may say the holy spirit will change your heart. Fine. I've heard this answer. Tell it to your Christian neighbors and see if they don't crucify you because I highly doubt that one out of a million have been changed enough to the point where they cease doing things mentioned by Jesus as things they shouldn't be doing ('sinning').
If you can somehow 'save' this religion from being just for the very very very few, I would like to know how you can do it.

#1. Exaggerated language is used in the bible to impress the importance of doing something.

#2. God requires holiness. "Holiness is not legalism". John Wesley wrote an article with this title and it is very good.

#3. Salvation is attainable and one can know how to be saved. All one need to do is read with an open heart the NT (Eph.3:3,4). - 4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ).

If one will read (Acts Chapters 1-10) over and over the plan of salvation will clearly be seen. (Jn 8:31,32) - If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; 32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Sadly God knew only a few would accept truth and obey it.

13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. (Mt.7:13,14).


Neither force nor numbers are what energizes religion. Rather it is truth and belief of that truth (Jn 17:17). - 17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

Thanks

 

[Brian2]

I'm talking about the NT. It seems to me that being saved is almost impossible.
First, there's the 'hard' statements by Jesus that counsel plucking out eyes and cutting off things if one even looks or thinks wrong. Then there's the eye of the needle-type statements. Then there's the kind of statements outside the Gospels such as, “If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,” (Hebrews 10:26).

Jesus did use hyperbole which should not be taken literally. We get the point, but don't start chopping off body parts.
A real follower of Jesus does not deliberately keep on sinning even if it may seem that way at times when we want to stop the sinning we are doing but end up keeping on sinning anyway. Probably 'deliberately' refers to people who wants to just keep on sinning and then in the end say that they believe and so are saved. Something like the Jews in the Tanakh who did all sorts of things against the Law but thought they were OK because they were Jews who had the Temple etc.
But the thing is that the salvation offered is a gift and is not dependant on how good we are or how good we become through the keeping of laws. Jesus knows the ones who are His followers, and many of those people may seem to us to be the worst sinners. However they are doing what they can to do the right thing.

 

[moorea944]

I'm talking about the NT. It seems to me that being saved is almost impossible.
First, there's the 'hard' statements by Jesus that counsel plucking out eyes and cutting off things if one even looks or thinks wrong. Then there's the eye of the needle-type statements. Then there's the kind of statements outside the Gospels such as, “If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,” (Hebrews 10:26).
You may say the holy spirit will change your heart. Fine. I've heard this answer. Tell it to your Christian neighbors and see if they don't crucify you because I highly doubt that one out of a million have been changed enough to the point where they cease doing things mentioned by Jesus as things they shouldn't be doing ('sinning').
If you can somehow 'save' this religion from being just for the very very very few, I would like to know how you can do it.

What does being "saved" mean to you? Are we saved into something, out of something, or saved in a way of being set apart for something to come?...........

 

[Nova2216]

God said it's not his will that any should perish, but that all should come to the knowledge of the truth. He said it was for whosoever will.
It is the plan of God that is predestined. The choice is up to us what we do. Whether we choose to obey his plan or not.

Good post!.

Before the universe was ever created the Lord decided to build His church according to (Eph.1:8-11 ; 3:8-11).

The church was established in (Acts 2:1-4) (Acts 2: 36-47)).

The saved includes those who decide to obey the Lords commands (Heb,5:9) (1Peter 1:22,23) (Jn.14:15,21) (1Jn 2:3-6).



God gave the plan

Man decides to obey or not (Acts 28:24).

If man is lost ultimately it will be his fault.


God made it possible for all to be saved (1Tim.2:4).

4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

We learn the importance of knowing and obeying the truth in (1Tim.2:4) (2Thess.1:7-9).

8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;


Thanks

 

[LAGoff]

What does being "saved" mean to you? Are we saved into something, out of something, or saved in a way of being set apart for something to come?...........

I'm a Jew. That word ('salvation') is not a 'biggie' in the DAILY life of a Jew who is mainly concerned with performing the next mitsva. Sure, we hope to be 'saved' from our enemies and our exile, but we have our mitsvas to be concerned with. On a humorous note, it seems Christians -- and Paul especially -- wanted to be 'saved' from the 'commandments' / mitsvas. But not everybody has Paul's psychology. I don't. I just try to do the mitsvas as best I can and let myself off the hook when I can't or don't.

 

[Hawkins]

I'm talking about the NT. It seems to me that being saved is almost impossible.
First, there's the 'hard' statements by Jesus that counsel plucking out eyes and cutting off things if one even looks or thinks wrong. Then there's the eye of the needle-type statements. Then there's the kind of statements outside the Gospels such as, “If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,” (Hebrews 10:26).
You may say the holy spirit will change your heart. Fine. I've heard this answer. Tell it to your Christian neighbors and see if they don't crucify you because I highly doubt that one out of a million have been changed enough to the point where they cease doing things mentioned by Jesus as things they shouldn't be doing ('sinning').
If you can somehow 'save' this religion from being just for the very very very few, I would like to know how you can do it.

"Stumble" can have multi-fold meanings to different humans grouped under different covenants. To the Jews who are under Law, "stumble" thus means a violation of the Jewish Law.
To Christians, "stumble" means failed to follow Jesus Christ as He commands.

Matthew 5:22 (NIV2011)
But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’ is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.


Under the New Covenant, if you keep mistreating a brother or a sister, you are risking your own life as loving each other is an explicit command from Jesus.

In the end, the New Covenant means a judgment is to be carried out by God Himself, instead of a judgment by Law. It will thus be an extremely fair judgment, if you don't trust so then you are risking yourself being thrown back to the judgment of Law itself.

 

[Muffled]

I'm talking about the NT. It seems to me that being saved is almost impossible.
First, there's the 'hard' statements by Jesus that counsel plucking out eyes and cutting off things if one even looks or thinks wrong. Then there's the eye of the needle-type statements. Then there's the kind of statements outside the Gospels such as, “If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,” (Hebrews 10:26).
You may say the holy spirit will change your heart. Fine. I've heard this answer. Tell it to your Christian neighbors and see if they don't crucify you because I highly doubt that one out of a million have been changed enough to the point where they cease doing things mentioned by Jesus as things they shouldn't be doing ('sinning').
If you can somehow 'save' this religion from being just for the very very very few, I would like to know how you can do it.

I believe that was exactly the point Jesus was making. No man could do it so you have to have Jesus as Lord and Savior to do it for you. So the bottom line is that without Jesus you would have that one hope in a million but with Jesus the odds get a lot better.

 

[Muffled]

1 John 5:3b.

A big part of pleasing the Christian God (who is also the Hebrew God, i.e., Jehovah), is being kind and loving to others. People of all nations.

The only things making that difficult is our own selfishness, and the pressures of this divided world.

I believe in order for Jesus to be Lord one must give up self. A person can't have two masters.

 

[Muffled]

Saved from what ?

I believe that would be sin as in looking at a girl with lust.

 

[Muffled]

I believe you are accustomed to the idea that laws have to be obeyed by the strength of a persons will. That would be Islam and Judaism, Hinduism and Buddhism. In Christianity accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior puts Jesus in control of our wills. Anyone can do this. The only question is whether they are willing to do it.

 

[Rise]

I'm talking about the NT. It seems to me that being saved is almost impossible.
First, there's the 'hard' statements by Jesus that counsel plucking out eyes and cutting off things if one even looks or thinks wrong. Then there's the eye of the needle-type statements. Then there's the kind of statements outside the Gospels such as, “If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,” (Hebrews 10:26).
You may say the holy spirit will change your heart. Fine. I've heard this answer. Tell it to your Christian neighbors and see if they don't crucify you because I highly doubt that one out of a million have been changed enough to the point where they cease doing things mentioned by Jesus as things they shouldn't be doing ('sinning').
If you can somehow 'save' this religion from being just for the very very very few, I would like to know how you can do it.

Your premise would be false to begin with. Who says you have to "save" Christianity so that it's not just for the very few?

Jesus disagreed with you that such a thing was necessary or even desirable.

And if Jesus disagreed with you, and you want to advocate something different than what Jesus did, then by definition you're not talking about Christianity anymore. Which by definition is a follower of Jesus (Meaning, one who is like Christ. Which is where the ancient term "Christain" comes from in the first place).


Examples where Jesus explicitly tells us to expect that this won't be an easy thing for people to do, and not everyone will make it:

But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
Matthew 7:14

Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?'
Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'
Matthew 7:22-23

Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God."
Matthew 19:24


But the important thing to remember is that Jesus never said it was impossible. He said it was possible. And He put no qualifications on who it was possible for. It's possible for everyone.

When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, "Who then can be saved?"
Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."
Matthew 19:25-26


The only qualification is that it must be done with the help of God. Then anyone can do it, because all things are possible with God.

The answer to your question, therefore, is to seek God for the transformation you want. Although, we see elsewhere in Scripture you must seek Him in faith if you expect to get what you're seeking. So make sure you actually have faith in God that He's capable and willing of doing such a thing if you intend to seek Him for such a thing.


Further, I should point out, in response to your title question: The answer is absolutely yes from a pure logic perspective. Logically, the difficulty of doing something has no bearing on whether or not the requirement of you doing that thing is true. That would seem to be a variant of the fallacy of appeal to popularity.

To use an analogy to illustrate; We could say that it's very difficult for most people in the USA to eat healthy and take care of themselves in order to maximize their lifespan and health. But the fact that most people struggle to do this doesn't prevent it from being true to say that if they don't do it they will die younger than they should have and you'll develop illnesses you otherwise wouldn't have.

Likewise, there's logically nothing contradictory with saying it's true that you must do what Jesus said in order to experience salvation, but also say it's true that most people won't be willing or able to do that. The difficulty of a task does not necessarily have any connection to proving whether or not said task is necessary. If logic worked that way, then eating perfectly healthy and taking care of your body in other ways would be completely unnecessary and have no benefit to you because most people aren't willing to do it.