1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Cain in the bible

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by tiano, Apr 14, 2006.

  1. tiano

    tiano Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2006
    Messages:
    37
    Ratings:
    +2
    I watched a program on the bible a few months back and was left perplexed.
    The bible says God created Adam and Eve and they have two children in Cain and Abel. Cain later murders Abel and then he goes to found a city.

    If Adam and Eve were the only humans made by god and they only had two sons at the time Cain kills Abel, how can Cain go to found a city with merely him being the only soul on earth bar his mum and dad?

    Where and how do all these people appear for there to be cities?

    Incest is a sin and we all know instictively by nature its not right but there must of been incest for the population to grow if there was only one mother and one father in the history of the human race.
    Homosexuality is frowned upon and classed as sin in the bible,so surely God also
    believed the incest too was a sin and wrong?

    These were just something that struck me instantly when I saw the program and surely others must of asked these questions?

    I've actually asked some probing questions like these to christians and the only answer I got was I'm looking too deep into it.....
    If christians do feel they have the right to tell people they are living life wrong and unless they believe in Jesus they are doomed to hell, I think they should be able to explain some of the things in the bible that don't seem to add up.

    Can any christians explain the above question(s) please?

    Thanks all,
     
  2. evearael

    evearael Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2006
    Messages:
    6,106
    Ratings:
    +744
    Well, first off Adam and Eve did have more children:
    Genesis 4:25 - Adam and Eve also begot Seth...
    Genesis 5:4 - Adam and Eve begat other sons and daughters...

    Edit: Oops. I guess I shouldn't have replied as I am not Christian. My apologies.
     
  3. tiano

    tiano Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2006
    Messages:
    37
    Ratings:
    +2
    Hey you don't have to be a christian to reply, I'm just curious about this. I know adam and eve had more children but I thought that, 'at that time' ,they only had the two. Even seth would hardly help in the creation of a city with just cain being the only other man there, unless of course cain had an immaculate conception of his very own!

    Hey I'm not knocking the virgin birth belief either as I've heard that there has indeed been other reported and proven cases for virgin pregnancies in more recent times.
     
  4. evearael

    evearael Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2006
    Messages:
    6,106
    Ratings:
    +744
    One interpretation I've heard is that the incest prohibition wasn't in effect in the early part of Genesis.
     
  5. joeboonda

    joeboonda Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2005
    Messages:
    2,780
    Ratings:
    +200
    Google it you will find the answers from Christian apologists. Here is mine. Adam and Eve lived some 900 yrs, and begat sons and daughters. How long Cain and Abel lived before the murder is not said, in this time thousands of people could have been born of Adam and Eve's children. Cain and Abel are mentioned because, they were the first ones, but also because they were the first murder. What about incest? Where there is no law there is no sin, the Bible says. Abraham even married his half-sister Sarah. Not until Moses was the law made about incest. There are good reasons, mainly, after the fall with sin and death, the creation changed, declined, sickness, disesease, damage and decline of DNA, chromosomes, etc. where at first everything was 'very good', and pure and perfect. So, reproduction was safe. Later, as our condition deteriorated, the law was needed, to protect from birth defects, etc. Interestingly, on Dr. Phil this week, a man and woman fell in love who were 2nd cousins. Dr. Phil went to some genetic researchers, and guess what, the 2nd cousins had no worse chance of producing 'Deliverance' type offspring, than anyone else. Not 1st Cousins though, their chances were higher for making bad offspring. Okay, well, if you really want to know more, and how it works, I suggest looking at some good Christian Apologetic, or Answers sites, that may help, if you are really interested.
     
  6. tiano

    tiano Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2006
    Messages:
    37
    Ratings:
    +2
    hey thanks for the prompt response, I'll try and check some of the theories on those sites.
    It does seem abit contradictive that a god of such intellect would ever make mistakes or not forsee future problems. This is 'someone' who made the whole universe and its working and lets face it, you can't get much more complex than that.
    God could of made some more people to help the human population along and you'd of thought that all the way he'd of had an idea on how he wanted his people to live.

    I can't understand how things were allowed to get so bad that laws needed introducing.
    If you are going to give man freedom, you give him freedom. If you are going to want to keep man in line so to speak, God could of influenced man through man's thoughts alone, to help man steer clear of trouble. Evil spirits can influence peoples thoughts and so God, as the highest of sources ,could easily of done the same.

    I've also seen programs that God wrote on the wall of a Babylonian temple in front of a huge crowd at some gathering/event/celebration and rightfully predicted the downfall of the Babylonian empire for all its wrong doings etc.
    Considering the nigh on unimaginable sufferings of man through out the ages, especially the last century and the two world wars, there have been many many times when the feat of God at that Babylonian temple would of served well to be repeated.
    Could you imagine the impact of such a feat on in front of the TV cameras?

    With the anglo-american and friends mafia that are persecuting the world right now, it would be a wonderful time for god to reassure his people that there is indeed a place of sanctuary awaiting them, if their beliefs are correctly placed of course.

    This to me would be great proof to man that a higher being in God was real.

    Thanks all
     
  7. jaareshiah

    jaareshiah Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2006
    Messages:
    137
    Ratings:
    +4
    After Adam and Eve were put out of the Garden of Eden, these then had children, with Cain as the firstborn, followed by Abel. After the murder of his brother Abel, Cain went into banishment in "the land of Fugitiveness to the east of Eden," taking with him his wife. So likely Cain married his sister or perhaps one of his nieces.Why was brother-and-sister marriage not inappropriate at the beginning of mankind’s history? God created Adam and Eve perfect and purposed that all humankind descend from them. (Gen. 1:28; 3:20) Obviously some marrying of close relatives, especially within the first few generations, would occur. Even after sin made its appearance, there was relatively little danger of marked deformities in the children during early generations, because the human race was much closer to the perfection that had been enjoyed by Adam and Eve. This is attested to by the longevity of people then. (Genesis 5:3-8; 25:7.) But about 2,500 years after Adam had sinned, God prohibited incestuous marriage. This served to safeguard the offspring and it elevated the sexual morality of God's servants above that of people around them who were then engaging in all manner of depraved practices.(Leviticus 18:2-18). Since mankind was then so close to human perfection, such a marriage evidently did not pose the health risks that may imperil the offspring of such a union today, nor did God look down upon it. (Ge 4:16, 17) Even much later we have the example of Abraham’s marriage to his half sister Sarah. (Ge 20:12.)
    Following the birth of his son Enoch, Cain "engaged in building a city," naming it for his son. Such city may have been but a fortified village by present standards, and the record does not state when it was completed.
     
  8. tiano

    tiano Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2006
    Messages:
    37
    Ratings:
    +2
    Thanks for your reply which is very explanatory, I just think that the bible could of gone into far greater depth to explain all these things. A book that is going to be such an important part of mans history and indeed future, should of been much deeper to explain and leave less to interpretation. Having parts, especially from such a crucial period in the story/history, which could be left open to interpretation was in itself, always going to leave open the chance of people being mislead or not fully understanding the tale, or indeed, not trusting the bibles honour.

    Why hasn't God made sure that these men whom he inspired to write his books, were very thorough in there descriptions, as after all, it was these books that were to be left to save all his children and lead them to heaven and eternal life?
     
  9. MdmSzdWhtGuy

    MdmSzdWhtGuy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2005
    Messages:
    1,373
    Ratings:
    +289
    Or we could look at the most likely story, of course. That is the story in Genesis is just that, a story. Trying to prove the Bible to be literally true is just short of impossible. Take moral lessons from it if you wish, but a Noahic Flood, a Young Earth, Virgin Birth, etc. . . . well, if you buy that, I got this bridge you are gonna LOVE!!!!

    B.
     
  10. joeboonda

    joeboonda Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2005
    Messages:
    2,780
    Ratings:
    +200
    Thing is, many famous people of the Bible, including Abraham, David, and Jesus traced their lineage to Adam. Also, in Romans it says by one man, Adam sin came into the world and was passed down to all men, and by one man, Jesus sin was dealt with. Jesus also mentioned Adam when He spoke of God's institution of marriage between a man and a woman. Adam was a real man, so was Noah. And, Jesus was born of a virgin as prophecy foretold.
     
  11. jonny

    jonny Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2005
    Messages:
    6,260
    Ratings:
    +639
    Who knows if Adam and Eve were the only souls on earth when they were place here. Maybe there is something to that whole evolution thing. :D
     
  12. tiano

    tiano Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2006
    Messages:
    37
    Ratings:
    +2
    Does anyone ever consider the possibility that life may have started here from people from another planet?

    To me its just as plausible if not more plausible than any other theory. I mean, the universe is beyond huge and with millions of planets or galaxies even, its a fair bet that life is going on elsewhere. Considering the technological breakthroughs we have seen in the last 50-100 years alone it would also be predictable to think that if indeed another race has a start of 100,000 years on us they'd be capable of travelling through space too.

    And to those who'd say where are they now, why don't they appear? Maybe they saw enough of our vain, self obsessive, over inflated sense of intelligence and all round destructive nature, to think sod the lot of em, lets leave these misguided fools to sow the seeds of there inevitable calamitous downfall. ( I almost felt I may of been a little harsh on us humans here, then the few seconds of thought on our recent history and current world wide plight merely confirmed my observations promptly)

    They could also be appearing already, amongst the many claims and recorded footage of UFOs and other strange anomalies.


    Some people ridicule these kind of ideas and even laugh and call you mad...... and then preach to you about one god that made the EVERYTHING, looked like us and gave us his only son, who in fact was actually him having an experience on earth, as well as being a god of love, who then went on to commit mass genocide, made a whole human being from another humans RIB, gave us the freedom of choice but then contradicted himself by saying that if we actually didnt live in the belief of his one and only son, we'd then go to hell for eternity. Quite a bloke I'm sure you'll agree!
    ( If not a being of many contradictions, downright hypocrisy , with an ability to fail at times as much as his creation and all this despite him being able to masterfully create everything in all its working glory throughout the entire universe, something the human mind couldn't even understand let alone invent).

    Considering everything that God has supposed to of achieved and the magnificence and splendour of his intellectual ability, don't you actually think its a little bit cheeky of us to preach that he also made mistakes back in the day? I do.

    Thanks all
     
  13. joeboonda

    joeboonda Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2005
    Messages:
    2,780
    Ratings:
    +200
    God does not make mistakes, he made humans with free choice, they choose to become unspeakably evil, and it grieved God so, that he destroyed all but 8. It may well have been an act of compassion on those who were being wickedly done to, it was a time of great violence, we have no idea of, but it must have been pretty awful. I will not question God's judgement. And the Bible is much more easy to believe for me at least than life starting on another planet and coming here. Its hard enough to believe, which I don't, that life just 'happenned' here, even more so that it 'just happenned' far far away and somehow made it here, preposterous in my opinion.
     
  14. tiano

    tiano Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2006
    Messages:
    37
    Ratings:
    +2
    preposterous? So the knowledge that Mars had water and also biological life of some form at least still makes you think that its preposterous? ( They say that rocks from mars had fossils of biological lifeforms )

    I've heard scientists say that where there is water there could be life and there's also the possiblilty of water being on other planets or moons in OUR solar system, one of saturns moons is thought to have frozen water that could well be running water deep underneath, like our arctic regions.

    Also what strikes me is how the Sumerians had such a massive knowledge of the workings of our solar system and why they would lie about where they received the knowledge. My guess is that they meant what they said and either it was alien life forms or the only other possibility is it being some form of demon etc that told them this knowledge to distance them from God, if indeed the bible was correct.

    Sure, everyone's entitled to their opinions and thats what makes the world such an interesting place but I honestly think that if someone can be open to the possibility of the bible being right, (since God has never shown himself to the masses and the elements of that bible that seem to leave itself open to interpretation), then they'd have to accept that any other theory which is lacking any solid evidence is just as credible as too. I haven't read the bible but after I get the book of Enoch I think I will.
    God could do many many things to help his children know he IS there and REALLY help them save their souls. Christianity is a religion based on faith purely for the reason that the large parts of the bible are impossible to proof. God could and indeed should ( if he really loves us all ), of made it so much easier to believe.
    So any othere theory thats devoid of solid evidence is just as preposterous as that old alien theory which does at least have credible eye witnesses around the world today. ( as well as the mixed up witnesses that undoubtably participate in over indulgence of certain mind liberating chemicals )
     
  15. gnomon

    gnomon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2005
    Messages:
    9,062
    Ratings:
    +1,556
    Religion:
    atheist
    Genesis does contain two creation stories. Considering the Cain was marked so that any who find him should not kill him. Who? Adam and Eve. Or the people of Nod east of Eden?

    I'm sure there are a few threads on this site already discussing the issue of two different creation stories in the book of Genesis.
     
Loading...