Buddhism and chronic pain

[Jaymes]

How does Buddhism (or Buddhists) deal with chronic physical pain, like arthritis? Is this a type of suffering that arises from desire/attatchment? Is it possible to be in pain without suffering?

If it strikes you guys that I'm working on an assumption here that's way off base, please give me a good kick upside the head.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

How does Buddhism (or Buddhists) deal with chronic physical pain, like arthritis?

I don't know if I can speak for all Buddhists, but our school concerns itself quite a bit with the healing arts and the roots of pain and illness. Let's see if I can represent well enough.


Any form of suffering is the result of karmic seeds planted from either this lifetime or from previous lifetimes. It's understood that because we are born, we carry these imprints with us, and that they will ripen into some form of misfortune, pain, illness, or untimely death (or really anything rather nasty). In the case of chronic pain, therefore, it's understood to be karmic seeds that are ripening into this kind of experience. How you cope with it and deal with it is entirely up to you, and will result in karmic purification (good thing), or in more negative seeds being planted (bad thing - more suffering in the future).

Is this a type of suffering that arises from desire/attatchment?

That is an answer I do not have, for it might vary in different individuals and their karmic history. But, the root defilement of ALL suffering is ignorance. This forms the base of other defilements that include desire/attachment as well as fear/aversion.

Is it possible to be in pain without suffering?

Pain varies from one individual to the next. What I might find incredibly painful might be tolerated highly in the next. Take needles............the very thought of one creates all kinds of phobias of intense pain and intrusion in some people, where others don't even blink when being administered a shot. With that being said, one can most certainly experience pain without suffering. It depends entirely on the state of mind at the time.



While I was going through labor pains with my daughter, I was without any anesthetics in me, and so I felt EVERYTHING. Perhaps the worst pain I'd ever felt! And yet, because of how my mind was working, the experience was nearly a state of euphoria for me.


Without going into too much detail in the open forum, varying S&M practices also point to the fact that one can experience pain without suffering in the slightest.



I hope I made some sense. I could be wrong, however.



Peace,
Mystic

 

[Valjean]

Aspirin?

 

[wizanda]

Don't eat Animals also, Pork I think encourages arthritis as your body isn't designed to eat meat and struggles to digest it.

There is a product called Maximol which contains 90 vitamins and minerals; including things like gold and silver that use to be part of our diet. My auntie claims that has helped her loads and she no longer suffers with sore joints.

 

[Engyo]

How does Buddhism (or Buddhists) deal with chronic physical pain, like arthritis? Is this a type of suffering that arises from desire/attatchment? Is it possible to be in pain without suffering?

If it strikes you guys that I'm working on an assumption here that's way off base, please give me a good kick upside the head.

Jensa -

There is a Buddhist concept known as the Four Sufferings; these are birth, sickness, aging, and death. We could classify arthritis as either #2 or #3, or both. The Four Sufferings are common to all life; they arise from desire/attachment in that that is what causes life in the first place..........

As to dealing with the issue of chronic pain, one can approach it medically, holistically, or from any number of different angles. Find what works the best for you, and pursue that (or them).

Other posters have already covered the pain without suffering aspect better than I can.......

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Aspirin?

:bow: LOL



Peace,
Mystic

 

[Ozzie]

Pain varies from one individual to the next.

Red heads have a higher pain threshold apparently.

What I might find incredibly painful might be tolerated highly in the next. Take needles............the very thought of one creates all kinds of phobias of intense pain and intrusion in some people, where others don't even blink when being administered a shot. With that being said, one can most certainly experience pain without suffering. It depends entirely on the state of mind at the time.

So maybe the needle is painful as a stimulus, but reaction is what makes a needle very painful for some?

Without going into too much detail in the open forum, varying S&M practices also point to the fact that one can experience pain without suffering in the slightest.

Sitting in mediation for up to an hour could be described as an S&M practice IMO. But it is only sometimes painful.

Jensa, sitting in meditation is an excellent way of exploring the nature of pain, both the physical and emotional kinds. I suppose a Buddhist would describe them all as suffering, as others have said. The good news is that they are temporary. I'm not sure how chronic arthritic pain would respond to meditation. I guess one can only try and find out.

 

[Valjean]

Don't eat Animals also, Pork I think encourages arthritis as your body isn't designed to eat meat and struggles to digest it.

There is a product called Maximol which contains 90 vitamins and minerals; including things like gold and silver that use to be part of our diet. My auntie claims that has helped her loads and she no longer suffers with sore joints.

Pork encourages arthritis? I'm skeptical. More info, please.

Meat difficult to digest? Where'd you come up with that?
Meat is easy to digest. It has none of those troublesome cell walls that require extensive grinding, cooking or bacterial assistance to breach.
Carnivores can wolf down huge chunks of meat without even chewing it and don't need the convoluted digestive apparatus of herbivores to process it. A little acid and some proteolytic enzymes and the stuff dissolves like sugar in tea.

This Maximol sounds dangerous. Gold and silver -- why not add some lead and arsenic to make sure you get a really good case of multiple heavy metal poisoning?
Seriously, although elemental gold is pretty inert it's compounds are bad news, as is silver -- elemental or otherwise.
I don't believe either gold or silver plays any part in normal human physiology whatever.

 

[lilithu]

How does Buddhism (or Buddhists) deal with chronic physical pain, like arthritis? Is this a type of suffering that arises from desire/attatchment?

Yes, but not in an obvious way. It does no one any good to tell them that you're attached to good health and that's why you're in pain.

A friend of mine at church has cerebral palsy. He moves around via a wheel chair, is barely able to speak. He's never complained about being in physical pain but I imagine that there is a great deal of suffering due to his physical condition. We are both interested in Buddhism and have studied sutras together at church. About two years ago he asked me what I thought of his condition with respect to Buddhist doctrine. Was his current suffering the result of karma from past lives? Unfortunately, I did not understand Buddhism well enough to be of comfort to him at that time. All I could tell him was that was my understanding of the doctrine, but it didn't sit well with me that someone should be told that it is his fault that he has cerebral palsy. There was no way that I could believe that he deserved his situation.

Fortunately, neither I nor he have to believe that he deserves his situation. I now understand that karma is not a punishment, as we so often think of it in the West. Karma is the consequences of one's actions. As Engyo said, attachment results in rebirth, and once born, decay and death are an inevitable part of life. In this way, yes, the suffering from arthritis results from attachment.

Is it possible to be in pain without suffering?

My sutta teacher tells us a story about of the last days of a monk who was dying of cancer. By all physical indicators he was in pain. Beads of sweat on his brow, labored breathing... but when asked, he said, "There is no suffering." I don't think that he was lying in any way. As others have said, a lot of pain is perceptual. The pain receptors still fire. Your body still shows signs of physical stress. But the mind does not perceive it. Yes, I believe it's possible to be in pain without suffering. It is a matter of learning how to let go of the pain as soon as it is, not giving it the mental fuel to grow, to extinguish it.

 

[wizanda]

Sorry was only try to help...the meat part was from catering college...that the acid our bodies produce is not really suitable to digest meat and beefs collagen isn't....so i was told....then the proteins they contain are slow absorbing and the body takes more energy to digest these then gives.
fruit does contain protein also that is good for you and is easily digestible.

The point with the gold and silver is we need many trace elements of metals (that use to be in our soil), it is said depression is due to lack of zinc...was trying to be helpful

 

[lilithu]

Sorry was only try to help...the meat part was from catering college...that the acid our bodies produce is not really suitable to digest meat and beefs collagen isn't....so i was told....then the proteins they contain are slow absorbing and the body takes more energy to digest these then gives.
fruit does contain protein also that is good for you and is easily digestible.

The point with the gold and silver is we need many trace elements of metals (that use to be in our soil), it is said depression is due to lack of zinc...was trying to be helpful

Hey wizanda, namaste. I think it was clear to everyone that you were trying to help.

I think that the only bit of contention is that this the Buddhist forum and the Jensa's questions were about Buddhist beliefs on the matter. That's all.

And fwiw, Jensa is already vegetarian so the meat thing is not an issue.

 

[Doktormartini]

Pork encourages arthritis? I'm skeptical. More info, please.

Meat difficult to digest? Where'd you come up with that?
Meat is easy to digest. It has none of those troublesome cell walls that require extensive grinding, cooking or bacterial assistance to breach.
Carnivores can wolf down huge chunks of meat without even chewing it and don't need the convoluted digestive apparatus of herbivores to process it. A little acid and some proteolytic enzymes and the stuff dissolves like sugar in tea.

This Maximol sounds dangerous. Gold and silver -- why not add some lead and arsenic to make sure you get a really good case of multiple heavy metal poisoning?
Seriously, although elemental gold is pretty inert it's compounds are bad news, as is silver -- elemental or otherwise.
I don't believe either gold or silver plays any part in normal human physiology whatever.

http://www.celestialhealing.net/physicalveg3.htm
http://www.vegsource.com/jo/qa/qaphys.htm
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1594/is_1_13/ai_82352627
Go Vegan for your health, the animals, and the environment! Ahimsa for life!

EDIT: I should have read your full post before posting these. I figured you were going to say that meat isn't hard to digest and that humans should eat it...my bad. Check those links out anyways though!

 

[Booko]

Pork encourages arthritis? I'm skeptical. More info, please.

Don't be skeptical. Pork is the worst of all.

http://www.arthritissupport.com/library/showarticle.cfm/id/952

Certain seasonings may also have a beneficial or deletorious effect. I think this site lists a few of those.

Ginger baths are great for arthritic patients.

Um...so are coffee enemas, but I won't bother anyone with the details in public. :cover: