Bradley Manning: Hero or Traitor?

[dust1n]

He's definitely a criminal; I hesitate to use the word "traitor" specifically. I sure as hell wouldn't call the man a hero though. I don't see how the information he released helps anybody. He's the equivalent of that nerdy kid in school that snitches on other kids for smoking in the bathroom.

From the transcript I provided earlier:

"I knew that if I continued to assist the Baghdad Federal Police in identifying the political opponents of Prime Minister al-Maliki, those people would be arrested and in the custody of the Special Unit of the Baghdad Federal Police and very likely tortured and not seen again for a very long time – if ever.

"Instead of assisting the Special Unit of the Baghdad Federal Police, I decided to take the information and expose it to the [WikiLeaks organization], in the hope that before the upcoming 7 March 2010 election, they could generate some immediate press on the issue and prevent this unit of the Federal Police from continuing to crack down in political opponents of al-Maliki.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

And the proof to substantiate his claim that the Federal Police were going to go on a mass killing spree is...?

 

[dust1n]

And the proof to substantiate his claim that the Federal Police were going to go on a mass killing spree is...?

Who said anything about mass killing spree. This is regarding 15 non-violent protestors who were jailed because of their political beliefs, and Manning stated he was trying to prevent enough more incarcerations from taking place...

The part about torture is probably based off the fact that there is a lot of torture in Iraqi prisons; example:

BAGHDAD, Iraq -- Iraq's Interior Ministry said Tuesday that it has charged 57 members of the Iraqi police, including a general, in the alleged torture of hundreds of detainees at a prison in eastern Baghdad.

Torture is considered widespread among the poorly trained police force, which has suffered heavy losses at the hands of Sunni insurgents and criminal gangs, but Tuesday's announcement marked the first time the government has sought charges. Iraqi police are accused of close ties to the Shiite death squads whose daily abductions and killings fuel the sectarian violence convulsing the country.

Authorities reported finding the bullet-riddled bodies Tuesday of a dozen apparent death squad victims floating in the Tigris River south of Baghdad, all blindfolded and bound at the wrists and ankles. Hundreds of such killings have been recorded in Baghdad since the bombing of a Shiite shrine in February ignited revenge sectarian killings.

Some officers on the Shiite-dominated police force were accused of abetting the violence by allowing the gunmen to violate curfews and pass through checkpoints.

The concerns were underscored by the discovery of a police torture chamber in Baghdad last year, and by the apparent complicity of police in a mass kidnapping of Sunni workers that prompted authorities to take an entire police brigade out of service for retraining.

Among those charged in the torture at Site No. 4, the prison in eastern Baghdad, were a general, 19 officers, 20 noncommissioned officers and 17 patrolmen or civilian employees.

57 Iraqi Police Are Charged With Torture

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

Either way, he broke the law to prevent something that might or might not happen. Supremely stupid decision on his part; he deserves whatever consequences he gets.

 

[dust1n]

Either way, he broke the law to prevent something that might or might not happen. Supremely stupid decision on his part; he deserves whatever consequences he gets.

Great. I commemorate him for indeed trying to help people who were at no fault from being imprisoned and tortured on behalf of the corrupt government of Iraq.

 

[Yerda]

Traitor. In a good way.

 

[Galen.Iksnudnard]

Traitor. In a good way.

I'd say that Bradley Manning isn't necessarily a bad person. Of course we won't know the full story probably for many, many years, but I don't think he necessarily had bad intentions, he just went about it the wrong way. Personally I don't see him as a traitor, just a guy who made a very stupid, careless mistake.

I do think that the government might have came down a bit hard on him, but at the same time I'm sure he knew of the risks that he was taking by sending those documents.

Assange on the other hand... I'll be opening a bottle of champagne when they finally pump the pasty little P.O.S. full of lead.

 

[Valjean]

How is Manning's revelation of wrongdoing different from the same sort of revelation in a corporate setting?
Those who reveal illegal actions by private corporations are called whistleblowers and the government officially encourages them.

Shouldn't the public have more right to oversight and openness in a public institution, an institution that works for it? Why should the military keep so many secrets from its own employers?

 

[Galen.Iksnudnard]

How is Manning's revelation of wrongdoing different from the same sort of revelation in a corporate setting?
Those who reveal illegal actions by private corporations are called whistleblowers and the government officially encourages them.

Well for one, malicious or not, such action puts American soldiers in danger. You can argue that we shouldn't really be at war in the first place, but that doesn't really justify the fact that leaking information is dangerous for our troops.

Whistleblowing in a private company merely might result in the loss of profits, but doesn't actually put lives in danger. In fact if you blow the whistle on shoddy products for instance you might actually save lives.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

Well for one, malicious or not, such action puts American soldiers in danger. You can argue that we shouldn't really be at war in the first place, but that doesn't really justify the fact that leaking information is dangerous for our troops.

Whistleblowing in a private company merely might result in the loss of profits, but doesn't actually put lives in danger. In fact if you blow the whistle on shoddy products for instance you might actually save lives.

You mean nobody told you? Enemy combatants and strangers half a world away are totally more important than our friends and family that joined the military to protect us:sarcastic

 

[Valjean]

The military doesn't protect us. It endangers us, in fact. It creates enmity and actually generates the terrorism it purports to protect against.

Well for one, malicious or not, such action puts American soldiers in danger.

And American soldiers put foreign soldiers and civilians in danger. Killing people and blowing things up in support of American economic interests is their job, after all.

For every American soldier killed overseas, how many foreigners die?
Are the Americans more valuable than foreigners?

Manning's revelations save lives.

 

[Aquitaine]

And American soldiers put foreign soldiers and civilians in danger. Killing people and blowing things up in support of American economic interests is their job, after all.

Sadly though, soldiers are taught that they're doing the opposite of that - that they're doing something noble (defending their country/freedom/democracy etc). Essentially abusing someone who signed up with the intention of protecting their homeland.

 

[Valjean]

The Nuremburg Charter is international law. It holds that invasion and occupation of a neutral country is the highest of crimes. It also requires individuals who are able, to report the crimes of a foreign occupier.
The Charter was signed by the US on Aug. 8, 1945 and became US law. Under international and US law, then, weren't Manning and Snowden legally mandated to report the actions of an illegal power?

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

Exactly what evidence of an occupation did Snowden give?

 

[Valjean]

The Germans invaded Poland, the Americans, Iraq. Are you unaware that the US invaded and occupied Iraq?

It was an illegal war from the get-go, and an illegal occupation. Even being there was a Crime Against Civilization, according to the Nuremberg charter, as well as a violation of UN and NATO charters (and, thus, US law). The war crimes and crimes against humanity revealed by Manning, Taguba (Abu Ghraib) &al are just further crimes.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

The Germans invaded Poland, the Americans, Iraq. Are you unaware that the US invaded and occupied Iraq?

It was an illegal war from the get-go, and an illegal occupation. Even being there was a Crime Against Civilization, according to the Nuremberg charter, as well as a violation of UN and NATO charters (and, thus, US law). The war crimes and crimes against humanity revealed by Manning, Taguba (Abu Ghraib) &al are just further crimes.

And how exactly did Snowden help in exposing that "illegal occupation"?

 

[niceguy]

I personally do not believe Manning will spend more then a fraction of his sentenced time before getting a pardon. That is if the world at large continue to support his actions and as such makes his imprisonment an embarrassment for the US. My guess, he probably be out in 5-10 years. If they insist of keeping him much longer, then he may evolve to a status similar to that Nelson Mandela has achieved. Internationally, he is commonly seen as a hero after all.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

I personally do not believe Manning will spend more then a fraction of his sentenced time before getting a pardon. That is if the world at large continue to support his actions and as such makes his imprisonment an embarrassment for the US. My guess, he probably be out in 5-10 years. If they insist of keeping him much longer, then he may evolve to a status similar to that Nelson Mandela has achieved. Internationally, he is commonly seen as a hero after all.

You can't possibly compare Manning to Nelson Mandela... Manning has done nothing heroic or commendable.

 

[Falvlun]

And how exactly did Snowden help in exposing that "illegal occupation"?

I don't think he was saying that Manning exposed an illegal occupation, but rather, the crimes of a foreign occupier. As for Snowden, as that was crimes done on domestic soil, I'm not sure of the connection.

 

[Wirey]

Howdy peeps, just wondering what your opinion of Bradley Manning is?
I'd love to get an international perspective on this topic.

Murdering a murderer is still murder. Regardless of his motivation, he's a traitor.