Bolivian election

[Yerda]

It looks as though the MAS candidate has won outright in the first round: 2020 Bolivian general election - Wikipedia

Yay for democracy and socialism.

Does this, in conjunction with the long-running failed coup attempt in Venezuela, suggest that US influence is waning in the region?

 

[Stevicus]

It looks as though the MAS candidate has won outright in the first round: 2020 Bolivian general election - Wikipedia

Yay for democracy and socialism.

Does this, in conjunction with the long-running failed coup attempt in Venezuela, suggest that US influence is waning in the region?

Hard to say. With Evo Morales' long tenure in office, there didn't appear to be much U.S. influence at all. Or possibly even going back to when Pinochet was put on trial, as he was commonly regarded as a U.S. puppet.

I think U.S. influence has been waning world-wide for quite a long time, at least as far back as the 1970s (or it may have even started with the Bay of Pigs). Also, the U.S.-backed Contras failed to overthrow the Sandinistas. Backing Noriega and then having to forcibly remove him was also a bit of a debacle. Failure in Vietnam and the overthrow of the Shah in Iran were a couple of other examples.

 

[Brickjectivity]

It looks as though the MAS candidate has won outright in the first round: 2020 Bolivian general election - Wikipedia

Yay for democracy and socialism.

Does this, in conjunction with the long-running failed coup attempt in Venezuela, suggest that US influence is waning in the region?

I would very much like for my country not to be influential and would like other countries to fail without being able to blame us. If the Bolivians want to try socialism its on them. Never mind all of the examples of how it fails and turns otherwise potentially decent leaders into dictatorial idiots. Let them do what they want.

 

[Kenny]

It looks as though the MAS candidate has won outright in the first round: 2020 Bolivian general election - Wikipedia

Yay for democracy and socialism.

Does this, in conjunction with the long-running failed coup attempt in Venezuela, suggest that US influence is waning in the region?

It will be downhill for the beautiful country from there... unless the next elections change something.

 

[Tambourine]

It will be downhill for the beautiful country from there... unless the next elections change something.

The Morales presidency seemed to suggest the exact opposite.

 

[Yerda]

I would very much like for my country not to be influential and would like other countries to fail without being able to blame us. If the Bolivians want to try socialism its on them. Never mind all of the examples of how it fails and turns otherwise potentially decent leaders into dictatorial idiots. Let them do what they want.

Bolivians have been electing MAS since 2006. The only time democracy was under threat is when a coup overthrew the democratically elected administration with US support.

It will be downhill for the beautiful country from there... unless the next elections change something.

Since Evo Morales was first elected extreme poverty has been dramatically reduced while experiencing unprecedented economic strength. There is no reason this can't continue as they follow the MAS platform.

 

[Kenny]

The Morales presidency seemed to suggest the exact opposite.

Knowing Ecuador, Honduras, Guatemala, Paraguay and Nicaragua... Socialism in these countries doesn't translate into socialism... it translates into exportation of Communism.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Bolivians have been electing MAS since 2006. The only time democracy was under threat is when a coup overthrew the democratically elected administration with US support.

I sincerely hope it works out for them and that we do not have anything whatsoever to do with it.

 

[Stevicus]

Knowing Ecuador, Honduras, Guatemala, Paraguay and Nicaragua... Socialism in these countries doesn't translate into socialism... it translates into exportation of Communism.

That's what they said back in the 1980s. When I was in high school, a retired army general who was a friend of my history teacher came to speak to the class (I can't remember his name). He served with MacArthur during the liberation of the Philippines, so I felt honored to hear him speak. He came a second time to show us a video which was produced by the American Conservative Union, and it focused mainly on the Sandinista regime in Nicaragua and the supposed threat they posed to the rest of Central America. It was the classic domino theory applied to Central America, where they predicted Communism would spread to the rest of Central Mexico, then Mexico, then the United States.

Then I saw the exact same scenario play out a few years later in the movie Red Dawn. (I wonder if the ACU ever got residuals.)

A lot of these countries in Central and South America have been riddled with poverty, deprivation, hunger. Living under the capitalistic militarism of US hegemony has led to military juntas, dictatorships, atrocities. Our government jumped into bed with drug runners like Noriega, who somehow became unreliable and had to be removed. That was an embarrassment.

So, there is a bit of context which has to be mentioned regarding your point about the "importation of Communism." Perhaps from the point of view of those living in those countries (which had already become oppressed, impoverished, and devastated by capitalism), Communism might have been seen as the lesser of two evils, if they ever had to make such a choice.

 

[Tambourine]

Knowing Ecuador, Honduras, Guatemala, Paraguay and Nicaragua... Socialism in these countries doesn't translate into socialism... it translates into exportation of Communism.

Evo Morales is not a figment of my imagination, he was factually President of Bolivia and you can check his record in literally every piece of paper on the country from the last decade or so.

 

[Kenny]

Evo Morales is not a figment of my imagination, he was factually President of Bolivia and you can check his record in literally every piece of paper on the country from the last decade or so.

Hopeful.... it would be the first

 

[Kenny]

That's what they said back in the 1980s. When I was in high school, a retired army general who was a friend of my history teacher came to speak to the class (I can't remember his name). He served with MacArthur during the liberation of the Philippines, so I felt honored to hear him speak. He came a second time to show us a video which was produced by the American Conservative Union, and it focused mainly on the Sandinista regime in Nicaragua and the supposed threat they posed to the rest of Central America. It was the classic domino theory applied to Central America, where they predicted Communism would spread to the rest of Central Mexico, then Mexico, then the United States.

Then I saw the exact same scenario play out a few years later in the movie Red Dawn. (I wonder if the ACU ever got residuals.)

A lot of these countries in Central and South America have been riddled with poverty, deprivation, hunger. Living under the capitalistic militarism of US hegemony has led to military juntas, dictatorships, atrocities. Our government jumped into bed with drug runners like Noriega, who somehow became unreliable and had to be removed. That was an embarrassment.

So, there is a bit of context which has to be mentioned regarding your point about the "importation of Communism." Perhaps from the point of view of those living in those countries (which had already become oppressed, impoverished, and devastated by capitalism), Communism might have been seen as the lesser of two evils, if they ever had to make such a choice.

Unfortunately, it isn't as simple as above. And certainly the communistic import/export didn't improve anyone's condition but rather made it worse

Having ministered to a Nicaraguan refugee camp in Honduras during the Sandinistas takeover, Would you explain to me how you can rationalize the killing of women by splitting open their womb while pregnant is a great improvement? Or why thousands would flee seeing family members die during the travel through the mountains if the Sandinistas were such a great option?

 

[Stevicus]

Unfortunately, it isn't as simple as above. And certainly the communistic import/export didn't improve anyone's condition but rather made it worse

Having ministered to a Nicaraguan refugee camp in Honduras during the Sandinistas takeover, Would you explain to me how you can rationalize the killing of women by splitting open their womb while pregnant is a great improvement?

That's an outrageously provocative question undeserving of an answer.

Or why thousands would flee seeing family members die during the travel through the mountains if the Sandinistas were such a great option?

Why did thousands fight and die to oppose the Somoza regime if he was backed by the capitalistic, freedom-loving US government? If Nicaragua was such a paradise as you're insinuating here, then there would never have been a revolution.

 

[Tambourine]

Hopeful.... it would be the first

Why are you using the subjunctive form for something that has factually occurred in the past?
Evo Morales - Wikipedia

Under Morales, Bolivia experienced unprecedented economic strength, resulting in the increase in value of its currency, the boliviano.[123] His first year in office ended with no fiscal deficit; the first time this had happened in Bolivia for 30 years,[124] while during the global financial crisis of 2007–08 it maintained some of the world's highest levels of economic growth

The Morales Presidency was nothing less than a success for Social Democracy in South America.

 

[Kenny]

Why are you using the subjunctive form for something that has factually occurred in the past?
Evo Morales - Wikipedia


The Morales Presidency was nothing less than a success for Social Democracy in South America.

This is usually what happens in a Latin country.

Evo Morales Finally Went Too Far for Bolivia

 

[Tambourine]

This is usually what happens in a Latin country.

I consider it a victory that you finally acknowledge Evo Morales as a real person who actually exists.

 

[Kenny]

I consider it a victory that you finally acknowledge Evo Morales as a real person who actually exists.

I'm sorry... did I every say he didn't? If I gave that impression, it wasn't on purpose.

 

[Tambourine]

I'm sorry... did I every say he didn't? If I gave that impression, it wasn't on purpose.

You seem to be intensely keen on believing that all forms of leftism inevitably lead to Stalinist death camps and mass persecution of political dissidents, when during South America's history of the past 50 years it was the pro-US, pro-market right-wing regimes who built death camps and persecuted dissidents.

 

[Stevicus]

Evo Morales to return to Bolivia

Bolivia's former president Evo Morales waves behind ex-vice-president Alvaro Garcia Linera, in Villazon in southern Bolivia, after arriving back in his country from Argentina, where he had sought refuge after first fleeing to Mexico.