Better than Jesus

[Zelophehad]

Jesus is NOT the savior. The savior of the Jews and of the world is the Rider in Rev19. The Jews needed Jesus to be the Rider and throw Moses (the false prophet) and YHWH(his false God) intro the lake of fire where they belong. The Jews were the ones who were imprisoned by Moses and his ridiculously evil doctrine of terrorism, and now, thanks to Jesus, the whole world is now imprisoned by it. Jesus's influence is the worst thing to have ever been inflicted upon mankind.

 

[Pastek]

So why didn't he say "no new slaves, but you can keep your current ones"? Instead, he created new slaves, and gave a supposedly perfect eternal book that clearly authorizes slavery.

He didn't create new ones. It was or some prisonners (liberated against money by their tribes), some were like employees, many were liberated, some married.
They all were free to go but many who accepted Islam wanted to be close to the Prophet.

Mohammed even allowed you to rape you slaves (33:50). Doesn't get much worse than rape, and Mohammed engaged in this abhorrent practice and can't possibly be considered perfect. Almost everyone alive today is better than Mohammad because they didn't create and rape slaves.

33.50 ? I see nothing in that sense.

He preached for long enough to be able to utter just a few words - "abolish slavery immediately".

He preached the jews not the romans. Not sure they used to have slaves.

 

[kerravon]

He didn't create new ones.

He did so.

It was or some prisonners

Yes, prisoners of war were turned into slaves by Mohammad. He was a disgraceful man. The exact opposite of perfect.

33.50 ? I see nothing in that sense.

Surat Al-'Ahzab - The Noble Qur'an - ?????? ??????

"We have made lawful to you your wives to whom you have given their due compensation and those your right hand possesses from what Allah has returned to you [of captives]"

It doesn't get any more disgusting than that. Legalized rape of slaves unfortunate enough to be beaten in Mohammad's aggressive wars. :-(

 

[Pastek]

Yes, prisoners of war were turned into slaves by Mohammad. He was a disgraceful man. The exact opposite of perfect.

That's not true, many hadiths and Quranic verses say the opposite concerning this.
But let me know if it's a tread about Jesus or Muhammad.

Surat Al-'Ahzab - The Noble Qur'an - ?????? ??????

"We have made lawful to you your wives to whom you have given their due compensation and those your right hand possesses from what Allah has returned to you [of captives]"

It doesn't get any more disgusting than that. Legalized rape of slaves unfortunate enough to be beaten in Mohammad's aggressive wars. :-(

Were is rape in this ? He never married a woman by force.
The term of "slave" doesn't mean the same thing than it used to be at this period or how we understand it now.

I have a book with the name of those people.
For exemple it says that one slave woman was his nursemaid.
It was an ethiopian Oum Aymen, and a hadith says that the Prophet used to call he " Oh Mother" and that she was part of his family.

An other was named Burayran she was bought by Aicha, and she freed her.

I have many more if you want. Some married other muslims, some stayed at the service of the Prophet Muhammad or his family, some were liberated.

 

[Knight of Albion]

I would not want to be like Jesus, I want to be me, the problem is many put Jesus on a pedestal that they believe no one can ever get to. We need to be the best we ourselves can be, not trying to be anyone else, that would be a wast of life to live like another.

True, but he never asked or wanted to be worshipped!

He was the Master of the Age, a spiritual teacher and the objective of a spiritual teacher is to teach, to guide, to exemplify, to light the way ...

The core of his message was love. When you sweep away all the dross and falsehood of Orthodoxy, that is what remains. And that is the jewel.

Be yourself, yes, you cannot be anyone else, but be guided by love then you truly will be the best person you can be...

[Remember that love is many things. It is Service. It is compassion. It is kindness. It is forgiveness. It is patience. It is thoughtfulness ....]

 

[nazz]

I consider that the massive number of people today who claim that slavery is wrong, to be better than Jesus.

I expect a Messiah, on being born into a particular world, to see human rights abuses and then reacting PERFECTLY to that stimuli.

A perfect reaction would be to come up with a set of rules similar to the rules that the Australian (etc) government have today - laws that outlaw slavery, rape, etc etc. I consider Australian law to be head and shoulders above the bible, which condones slavery (Leviticus 25:44, Ephesians 6:5, Colossians 3:22).

And then go ABOVE Australian law and free people from state-slavery as well (ie people suffering under dictatorships).

And also address what was causing individuals (not governments) from doing evil, even while claiming to be Christians and believing in God.

So fix the problems with both governments and individuals.

Jesus woefully failed to do any of this, and it is so easy to be better than Jesus simply by saying "slavery is wrong, unlike what the bible said".

IOW, you wanted him to be a political leader. Satan did too but Jesus rejected that route. His kingdom was not of this world and he did not believe in "top down" power structures as agents of positive change. He (correctly) saw spiritual transformation as the means to that end.

 

[psychoslice]

True, but he never asked or wanted to be worshipped!

He was the Master of the Age, a spiritual teacher and the objective of a spiritual teacher is to teach, to guide, to exemplify, to light the way ...

The core of his message was love. When you sweep away all the dross and falsehood of Orthodoxy, that is what remains. And that is the jewel.

Be yourself, yes, you cannot be anyone else, but be guided by love then you truly will be the best person you can be...

[Remember that love is many things. It is Service. It is compassion. It is kindness. It is forgiveness. It is patience. It is thoughtfulness ....]

Yes I certainly agree, love its all we really ever need.

 

[kerravon]

That's not true, many hadiths and Quranic verses say the opposite concerning this.

Here's the first mention of this practice in Wikipedia:

Muhammad - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"according to Ibn Ishaq, all the men apart from a few who converted to Islam were beheaded, while the women and children were enslaved"

Were is rape in this ?

It clearly says that you are authorized to have sex with your slaves. It doesn't require the slave to consent. That's rape. Legalized rape, authorized by the Quran. Horror.

He never married a woman by force.

No. Just raped slaves and sold them on.

The term of "slave" doesn't mean the same thing than it used to be at this period or how we understand it now.

Nonsense. You're just making excuses for your horrible prophet.

 

[kerravon]

IOW, you wanted him to be a political leader. Satan did too but Jesus rejected that route. His kingdom was not of this world and he did not believe in "top down" power structures as agents of positive change. He (correctly) saw spiritual transformation as the means to that end.

Can you please provide your definitions of "politics" vs "spiritual"? If Uday Hussein is abducting and raping Iraqi girls, and that makes you angry, is it anger for spiritual or political reasons?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Truthfully, the goal isn't to be "better" than Jesus, but to be like Him. The Christian path's goal is to lead you to becoming images of Christ - Christ-like. Wanting to be better than others would probably be a major setback in the road to becoming like Christ.

 

[Pastek]

Here's the first mention of this practice in Wikipedia:

Muhammad - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"according to Ibn Ishaq, all the men apart from a few who converted to Islam were beheaded, while the women and children were enslaved"

Please give me at last the chapter. I've read quickly the page but i guess i missed it.

It clearly says that you are authorized to have sex with your slaves. It doesn't require the slave to consent. That's rape. Legalized rape, authorized by the Quran. Horror.

You clearly don't know what's the rights of the slaves or prisoners to say that.

Nonsense. You're just making excuses for your horrible prophet.

Well, explain me what's your religion please.
It's seems to have some relations with Islam, and then our "horrible Prophet"

 

[egcroc]

I believe the goodness of a person can be measured by the positive impact left by his actions, ideals and teachings on the world... that said; then definitely yes, anybody can be better than Jesus, the fact is that any scientist who ever lived since the 16th century and contributed to the progress of science and technology has actually offered a lot more to our world than Jesus, Moses, Muhammad, Buddha... etc, All combined together, making Him/Her better than them all...

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

IOW, you wanted him to be a political leader. Satan did too but Jesus rejected that route. His kingdom was not of this world and he did not believe in "top down" power structures as agents of positive change. He (correctly) saw spiritual transformation as the means to that end.

I'm at my most spiritual when I'm preaching that to hold slaves is to offend the will of God.

It's easy to say 'Love your fellow.' But I see it as a vague cop-out. It's much riskier (to one's perfect reputation) to roll up one's sleeves and declare that God dislikes slavery, supports homosexuality, etc.

Maybe that's why the gospelers kept Jesus' message vague... to ensure he'd be seen as a perfect being. Who knows.

 

[kerravon]

Please give me at last the chapter. I've read quickly the page but i guess i missed it.

I gave you the Wikipedia link. if it's not accurate, update Wikipedia to say so.

You clearly don't know what's the rights of the slaves or prisoners to say that.

I clearly know that the Quran says you can rape your slaves, and there's nowhere in the Quran that gives slaves the right to NOT be raped.

Well, explain me what's your religion please.
It's seems to have some relations with Islam, and then our "horrible Prophet"

My religion is The Holy Book of Mu'tazilah

 

[kerravon]

Truthfully, the goal isn't to be "better" than Jesus, but to be like Him. The Christian path's goal is to lead you to becoming images of Christ - Christ-like. Wanting to be better than others would probably be a major setback in the road to becoming like Christ.

Jesus's pacifism is a bankrupt ideology. When I was a kid I was taught how great Jesus was and sought to emulate his pacifism. All it led to was gross human rights violations. It is not the philosophy that is required in the world as it stands today. The philosophy required is secular humanism, and in particular, anti-non-humanism. That is now my ideology and I am much better than I was when I was a pacifist, and I am much better than Jesus because I don't tout an evil philosophy like pacifism.

I'll leave you with this:

Anti-Subjugator: Satan Vanquished

 

[Pastek]

I gave you the Wikipedia link. if it's not accurate, update Wikipedia to say so.

What a nice manner to discuss with others : figure it out yourself

I clearly know that the Quran says you can rape your slaves, and there's nowhere in the Quran that gives slaves the right to NOT be raped.

Well that's your own interpretation. First time i hear that.

My religion is The Holy Book of Mu'tazilah

This is the whole Book ?

 

[kerravon]

What a nice manner to discuss with others : figure it out yourself

If you dispute the encyclopedia entry, then you need to take it up with Wikipedia.

Well that's your own interpretation. First time i hear that.

It's not an interpretation. Just a statement of fact.

This is the whole Book ?

Yes. What do you think is missing?

 

[Pastek]

If you dispute the encyclopedia entry, then you need to take it up with Wikipedia.

I just asked for the chapter concerning the hadith you was talking about.

Yes. What do you think is missing?

I just expected more from a Holy book.
I don't understand, your religion comes from an islamic sect, but you criticize both Jesus and Muhammad and think you are better than them.

Unfortunately the Mu'tazilah did not have sufficient support for their sect to become dominant in Islam, which is what ended up allowing Christian dominance

Dominant IN Islam ?
If you don't like Muhammad why are you even in that religion ?

It is haram to use the American or European date format and instead the ISO date format (YYYY-MM-DD) should be used. It doesn't matter that the year is based roughly on the year Christ was born, as Mohammed recognized Christ as a respected prophet, thus all the teachings of the bible are also relevant.

Why do you care of what the Prophet Muhammad said if you think he was "horrible" ?

 

[kerravon]

I just asked for the chapter concerning the hadith you was talking about.

Perhaps update the Wikipedia with "chapter please?" if it is not satisfactory.

I just expected more from a Holy book.

I expect any holy book to include something about slavery being wrong and dictatorship being wrong, so that it is very clear that dictators like Saddam will go to hell.

I don't understand, your religion comes from an islamic sect, but you criticize both Jesus and Muhammad and think you are better than them.

Yes, science and secularism are able to produce a better result.

Dominant IN Islam ?
If you don't like Muhammad why are you even in that religion ?

I am reforming Islam from within, rather than dying of old age waiting for any other Muslim to reform Islam.

If Christians can ignore the "stone your own children to death if they are disobedient" directive in the bible, then there's no reason why all the bad stuff in the Quran can't be ignored just as easily. And I made myself a living example of that.

Why do you care of what the Prophet Muhammad said if you think he was "horrible" ?

Mohammad did something really good. He fought a transnational war. This has forced America to think in terms of ideology rather than nation-state. 9/11 was a good kick in the Anglophone balls, just as Hitler did as well. There is nothing more disgraceful than Anglophones being complacent.

You can see more about this here:
http://www.mutazilah.org/enlight.htm

 

[Pastek]

I am reforming Islam from within, rather than dying of old age waiting for any other Muslim to reform Islam.

I wasn't aware that you was a muslim.

If Christians can ignore the "stone your own children to death if they are disobedient" directive in the bible, then there's no reason why all the bad stuff in the Quran can't be ignored just as easily. And I made myself a living example of that.

This is not even your religion.

Mohammad did something really good. He fought a transnational war. This has forced America to think in terms of ideology rather than nation-state. 9/11 was a good kick in the Anglophone balls, just as Hitler did as well. There is nothing more disgraceful than Anglophones being complacent.

And what Muhammad have to do with America and 9/11 ?

You can see more about this here:
http://www.mutazilah.org/enlight.htm

I'll take a look.