Belief in God will always require ‘some’ faith

[viole]

How goofy it is to use Superman for comparison to God. Superman is a very well-known fictional character. The only humans who would think him real are children, persons with certain mental illness, and persons existing in obscurity who do not know what books, comics, and tv are.

And your God is not fictional?

By the way, I know some convinced jediists.

Ciao

- viole

 

[viole]

he evidence for God doesn’t exist in the mind.

Obviously not

Ciao

- viole

 

[Redwing]

May the God in your mind serve you well.

God doesn’t exist in the mind. He exists in one’s spirit or soul.

 

[Redwing]

And what on earth is spiritual understanding? Prima facie, it looks like an oxymoron.

Ciao

- viole

Oxymoron? You’d better look up the definitions of all words involved if you think that.

And your God is not fictional?

By the way, I know some convinced jediists.

Ciao

- viole

Of course, not. Why and how would God be fictional?

Obviously not

Ciao

- viole

oh, so you get it. Good.

 

[viole]

Oxymoron? You’d better look up the definitions of all words involved if you think that.

Well, you are claiming that I should find evidence using something that itself has no evidence to exist. Namely, the spiritual, whatever that is.

Of course, not. Why and how would God be fictional?

Simple, because people make up gods all then time. Do you think Apollo was not fictional?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Redwing]

Well, you are claiming that I should find evidence using something that itself has no evidence to exist. Namely, the spiritual, whatever that is.
Simple, because people make up gods all then time. Do you think Apollo was not fictional?
Ciao
viole

Both words are found in dictionaries and they don’t contradict each other.

The average human being has “feelings,” called such because they can be felt. Where are they felt? Are they literally in the heart? Stomach? Abdomen? No, they just feel like it. Do they exist in the physical body or the soul/spirit? What are feelings? Love, compassion, empathy, sorrow, fear, trust, loyalty, strength, weakness, confidence, hope, desire, etc. Is there evidence that these feelings exist? What evidence? How do you prove it to another person? How do you prove it to yourself? Do you love someone or something, how do you know?

Faith is a feeling. It is generally regarded as spiritual. Other feelings are spiritual as well, such as love, compassion, and empathy. Other characteristics are or can be spiritual, like kindness, patience, tolerance, and humility. Where’s the evidence that any of these exist? How do we know they exist or what they are? Is it because someone explained what they are? showed us? and eventually we had an understanding?

Faith is the evidence that God exists. It is felt. It is not a thought in the mind. It can grow stronger and become knowledge. Such is love. Love is felt, it can become stronger, and you know when it exists, and for who or what. Is love true or fake? can you feel the difference?

 

[viole]

Do they exist in the physical body

Yes. Take a big hammer, hit your head with it, and you will see how easy those things disappear. Or you can take some chemicals, like say, 20 vodka shots, and they will vanish, too, when you pass out.

Faith is the evidence that God exists. It is felt. It is not a thought in the mind. It can grow stronger and become knowledge. Such is love. Love is felt, it can become stronger, and you know when it exists, and for who or what. Is love true or fake? can you feel the difference?

So, believers in Apollo had evidence that Apollo existed?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Redwing]

Yes. Take a big hammer, hit your head with it, and you will see how easy those things disappear. Or you can take some chemicals, like say, 20 vodka shots, and they will vanish, too, when you pass out.

Fortunately, I don’t do such stupid acts, or plan to.

So, believers in Apollo had evidence that Apollo existed?

Ciao

- viole

I wouldn’t know. I’m not familiar with Apollo.

 

[viole]

Fortunately, I don’t do such stupid acts, or plan to.

Yes, but I hope you agree that what you call spiritual can be disabled very easily by means of very not spiritual means. While it is difficult to imagine how the physical world can be influenced by the spiritual.

I wouldn’t know. I’m not familiar with Apollo.

Unless Apollo, and all other divinities in human history, are all mutually compatible, then it follows by simple logic that faith is useless to determine the truth, or evidence, of any of those Gods. Including yours.

You must also consider a sort of delusion the faith in a God different from yours.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Redwing]

Yes, but I hope you agree that what you call spiritual can be disabled very easily by means of very not spiritual means. While it is difficult to imagine how the physical world can be influenced by the spiritual.

I don’t agree at all. Your response about a hammer and vodka had nothing to do with what I said. You are a physical, as well as, a spiritual being whether you are able to understand or acknowledge that or not. You were unable to sensibly disagree with what I said.

Unless Apollo, and all other divinities in human history, are all mutually compatible, then it follows by simple logic that faith is useless to determine the truth, or evidence, of any of those Gods. Including yours.
You must also consider a sort of delusion the faith in a God different from yours.Ciao
- viole

You will need to explain further. As I said, I don’t know Apollo. I don’t know “all other divinities in human history” that you speak of. I do not understand your English translation.

 

[viole]

I don’t agree at all. Your response about a hammer and vodka had nothing to do with what I said. You are a physical, as well as, a spiritual being whether you are able to understand or acknowledge that or not. You were unable to sensibly disagree with what I said.

I can provide plenty of evidence I am a physical being, while you can provide zero evidence that I am a spiritual being. It is not even clear what "spiritual" means. So, again, you claim evidence of God can only come from something that has no evidence, either. Actually, it has not even clear meaning.

You will need to explain further. As I said, I don’t know Apollo. I don’t know “all other divinities in human history” that you speak of. I do not understand your English translation.

Well, I am sure you are aware that most people in history believe and believed in gods that are not at all compatible with your God, which I assume it is of the Christian variant.

Ergo, you must agree that all those people had faith in something that does not exist. Which should make it clear that faith is useless to determine evidence of anything.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Redwing]

I can provide plenty of evidence I am a physical being, while you can provide zero evidence that I am a spiritual being. It is not even clear what "spiritual" means. So, again, you claim evidence of God can only come from something that has no evidence, either. Actually, it has not even clear meaning.


Well, I am sure you are aware that most people in history believe and believed in gods that are not at all compatible with your God, which I assume it is of the Christian variant.

Ergo, you must agree that all those people had faith in something that does not exist. Which should make it clear that faith is useless to determine evidence of anything.

Ciao

- viole

Nope. Disagree. You don’t even respond to what I said or the questions I asked. You only replied with your own agenda and changed the subject to past Gods, which has nothing to do with what I said.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I can provide plenty of evidence I am a physical being, while you can provide zero evidence that I am a spiritual being. It is not even clear what "spiritual" means. So, again, you claim evidence of God can only come from something that has no evidence, either. Actually, it has not even clear meaning.

Excellent.

 

[viole]

Nope. Disagree. You don’t even respond to what I said or the questions I asked. You only replied with your own agenda and changed the subject to past Gods, which has nothing to do with what I said.

What agenda? The OP claims some faith is required to believe in God, while I am trying to make the case that faith is a very unreliable epistemological tool.

So, what do you expect from me in an open debate forum? That I just swallow what you say?

I went through the previous posts, but I did not see any question I failed to answer. It is entirely possible I did not look good enough, so I kindly ask you to be a gentleman and repeat them here. I promise I will answer them without any hesitation.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

... I am trying to make the case that faith is a very unreliable epistemological tool.

Out of curiosity - and this is honestly not intended as a trick question - would you also claim that an epistemological tool must be reliable to be useful?

 

[viole]

Out of curiosity - and this is honestly not intended as a trick question - would you also claim that an epistemological tool must be reliable to be useful?

You can ask trick questions all the time. I like them.

In general, we could still consider things useful, even when they are unreliable. For instance, my blood pressure device is not very reliable, but when it works it gives a pretty precise reading of my blood pressure.

However, if my blood pressure device would give me 180, when it is 90. Or 85 when it is 220, then I would say it is useless. And faith, seems to be like that device, since it gives values that are totally at odds with each other.

Ciao

- viole

 

[CG Didymus]

Faith is the evidence. Faith requires spiritual understanding. If one doesn’t apply their spiritual understanding and, instead, uses only their mind’s understanding, they will never have the evidence of God that they want. The evidence still exists whether you are able, or choose, to understand it, or not.

This is a thread started by a Baha'i. Do you believe they have evidence that their prophet is the return of Christ? They, I do believe, have as much faith in what their religion teaches as you do in yours. But you probably doubt their beliefs and they questions yours, and if you believe Jesus is God, then they believe you are wrong. But you both have "faith"? In what? You in the Bible and the NT. And they have faith in what their prophet wrote and said. And I'd bet that both Christians and Baha'is, by believing in their Scriptures, gain "spiritual" understanding. But it's two completely different and contradictory beliefs. So, as I usually ask, is it what you believe that is true or is it because you believe it that it becomes true to you, the believer?

 

[CG Didymus]

The evidence for God doesn’t exist in the mind.

Do you believe that some people and cultures believed in false Gods? And today, even with some Christians, they hold false concepts of God?

 

[CG Didymus]

God doesn’t exist in the mind. He exists in one’s spirit or soul.

But to believe, don't people have to be convinced in the mind that what the religion teaches is true and make sense? Then they put faith into those beliefs and it becomes a heart and soul thing?

But the problem is that people get convinced of all sorts of religious beliefs. And I'd imagine you don't believe all of them are true, yet those people that believe in them probably feel it true in their hearts just as much as you do.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

... if my blood pressure device would give me 180, when it is 90. Or 85 when it is 220, then I would say it is useless. And faith, seems to be like that device, since it gives values that are totally at odds with each other.

Perhaps. Have you perhaps had a chance to read the Stanford Encyclopedia entry on Faith?