Behold, I am Jesus Christ the Son of God. I created the heavens and the earth, and all things...

[EtuMalku]

LDS doctrine CLEARLY states that JESUS CHRIST is the creator of this UNIVERSE.

Jesus acts on behalf of God the Father, in directing this universe.

Statements Jesus Made Which Are False:
9) Jesus in John 14:12 & Mark 16:17-18 said: "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth in me, the works that I do shall he also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father." This implies that Jesus’ true followers should be able to routinely perform the following tricks: 1) cast out devils, 2) speak in tongues, 3) take up serpents, 4) drink poisons without harm, and 5) cure the sick by touching them and MANY other of Jesus’ "works". Curiously I have yet to see a Christian that can do any of the above on demand.
10) In John 14:13-14 Jesus stated: "And whatsoever ye ask in my name I do, that the Father may be glorified in the son. If ye ask any thing in my name, I will do it." In reality, millions of people have made millions of requests in Jesus’ name and failed to receive satisfaction. This promise or prophecy has failed completely.
11) Paul says Christianity lives or dies on the Resurrection (1 Corinthian 15:14-17). Yet Jesus said in Matthew 12:40 that he would be buried three days and three nights as Jonah was in the whale three days and three nights. Friday afternoon to early Sunday morning is only one and a half days, so he could not have been the messiah by his own and Paul’s admission.
12) Jesus’ prophecy in John 13:38 ("The **** shall not crow, till thou [Peter] hast denied me three times") is false. Mark 14:66-68 shows the **** crowed after the first denial, not the third.
13) In Mark 10:19 Jesus said: "Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, do not steal, do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother." Jesus needs to re-read the Ten Commandments. There is no Old Testament commandment against defrauding. The only relevant statement about defrauding is in Leviticus 19:13 , which says : "Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbor." This is an OT law, but is not listed with the Ten Commandments. Surely, if Jesus was god incarnate he would know the commandments.

 

[Riverwolf]

For instance there was no one to write down the "7 day" creation of the earth.

You just proved your ignorance of Scripture with this statement.

 

[FFH]

You do realize of course that there are a significant number of people who perceive farm animals to be the most beautiful thing on our planet and even take them as wives. Other cultures would find girls you find beautiful to be horrid.

You believe these women to be beautiful and many may share your beliefs but your beliefs do not make reality for anyone except yourself and at some point you need to realize others believe completely different things and so could you given a different set of upbringing and indoctrination.

The best thing a school can do it to teach a student HOW to think. You seem to come from a school of thought that its best for your parents, church, elders and school to teach you WHAT to think. (And then you spend the rest of your life trying to justify that what without ever knowing how)

There is NO PROOF that ANYTHING EVER creating or DESIGNED itself.

How am I less rational or logical than you or anyone else for thinking there is a DESIGNER behind what we see in this world ???

 

[Riverwolf]

I'm putting Jesus back where he belongs, at the head of this world, which he has created, and I'm throwing satan back into hell, where he belongs with his demons for eternity.

And who gave you the authority to do things that God is meant to do?

 

[Riverwolf]

Anyone can change scripture in secret, so how can I PROVE scripture has been CHANGED, when there was NO ONE around to witness it but God himself ???

And to do that, you have to prove the authenticity of your sources.

 

[FFH]

You just proved your ignorance of Scripture with this statement.

Oops 6 day creation, thanks for catching that.

 

[EtuMalku]

There is NO PROOF of ANYTHING EVER creating or DESIGNING itself.

How am I less rational or logical than you or anyone else for thinking there is a DESIGNER behind what we see in this world ???

Of course there is, Cymatics clearly proves that vibration itself manifests order from chaos. Everything in our Universe owes its existence to the Primeval Vibration.

At the heart of all the lost traditions was the teaching of the power of the WORD.
Every society, tradition and religion used the secret arts of sound, music and words to teach, heal and enlighten.

The ancient God names are specific signals that can be used to call upon aspects of the one divine force throughout the Universe. They represent manifestations of the divine within our Universe.

It is also known that the Universe and everything in it was begun with 'The Divine Utterance' 'The Word' which I see as the Primordial Vibration from which everything was put into motion by.

In Hindu cosmology, the name of a thing is actually a vital key to understanding its inner nature.

To quote from Sufi Hazrat Inyat Khan:
"There is a great secret hidden in name . . . All mystery is hidden in name . . . the meaning of name plays an important part in man's life, and the sound, the vowels, the rhythm, number of the letters which compose it, the mystical numbers, symbol and planet, as well as the root from which it is derived, all disclose their secret."

 

[FFH]

And to do that, you have to prove the authenticity of your sources.

All I can do is discuss and inform, yet there is still SOME element of debate.

 

[Riverwolf]

Oops 6 day creation, thanks for catching that.

I shouldn't have had to.

You need to CALM DOWN! Otherwise, you WILL NOT think rationally, and you will make careless mistakes like this, which will make people take you even less seriously.

 

[Riverwolf]

All I can do is discuss and inform, yet there is still SOME element of debate.

I could also inform you that the Holy Triforce, containing the essence of the Gods, rests somewhere in the land, where the sky shines gold instead of blue, yet because of their greedy intents, no one has ever been able to find this Sacred Realm. So says the Book of Mudora:

RAURU 1:32-33
The Holy Gods did then depart for the Heavens, and left behind the Holy Triforce, containing their Holiness and Power. Thence forth, the skies shined gold where the Holy Triforce rests.

MIDO 4:3
But no man has found this Sacred Realm, for all who have sought it have had Greed in their hearts, which the Gods detest.

I could "inform" you of this, and provide verses to "prove" it.

But WAIT! You wouldn't believe me just because I told you this, right? I'd have to provide proof. Since I have none, you cannot, in good reasoning, believe me.

I propose that you can't prove your argument because you have none. You have to prove the authenticity of your sources (i.e., Mormon scripture), which you can't. I already know about the so-called "testimonies," but you have to prove that those are also authentic. You also have to prove that Joseph Smith was illiterate, but Mohammad was also supposedly illiterate when he revealed the Qur'an. You have to prove that, as well.

Therefore, you should know as well as I do that without any real proof, you're wasting your time trying to convert us to your religion. God knows what is in our hearts, and if we are in the wrong, we will be punished, for if you are right, then many of us have already heard, so none of us are without excuse... other than God providing evidence that he's the real deal himself and not Satan trying to trick us.

 

[Sententia]

There is NO PROOF that ANYTHING EVER creating or DESIGNED itself.

How am I less rational or logical than you or anyone else for thinking there is a DESIGNER behind what we see in this world ???

There is no proof that anything was created or designed so implying that therefore there must be a designer is in your head and your beliefs right?

Christians still wear seat belts despite death is the gate which brings them to the best magical utopia of all time.

Its rationalization. Lets follow the logic in your argument....

Nothing designed itself so therefore there must be something that was not designed that designed everything... Ahh... Really?

So nothing designed itself except that which that did or was always and does not require a designer. You were taught that and now your here arguing to make reasonable sense of something that when stated is devoid of reason. The mental gymnastics are old, as are the same arguments that were made and debated and settled long before I was born but yet the same arguments still arise.

 

[siddqqeeutube]

Sorry guys,jesus cant be god..he was created and the creator is not equal to the created.

 

[Riverwolf]

Sorry guys,jesus cant be god..he was created and the creator is not equal to the created.

Christ is God's avatar. God on Earth, as it were.

 

[sojourner]

Jesus is the Beginning and the End, the Alpha and the Omega, the Great I AM. He was the God Moses and the prophets spoke to, in the Old Testament, and also in the the New Testament.

How can you say this and not be Trinitarian? (Even though Jesus, according to the doctrine, is not Creator, nor Father.)

Jesus is the AUTHOR of ALL INSPIRED scripture, including the OLD TESTAMENT and the NEW TESTAMENT (as long as it is translated correctly) and LDS (Mormon) scripture.

"Inspired scripture" is a redundancy. It is inspiration that defines what is scripture and what is not.

The scriptures were authored by people, none of whom were Jesus. This belief is simply fantasy.

 

[sojourner]

the Gospel narratives we have about Him were penned within the decades after His time on earth, by men of His same generation, eye-witnesses to His ministry, or men with ready access to eye-witnesses.

This is a stretch to say that they were men of his "same generation, eyewitnesses, or with ready access to eyewitnesses. We don't know any such thing.

 

[sojourner]

Hundreds of years after Yeshua's death men wrote down stories to resurrect the Christ figure and to propel their politically charged beliefs into the public eye.

Stories circulated within 5-10 years of Jesus' crucifixion. Those stories remained oral until they were written down, probably beginning about 30 years following the crucifixion, and continuing until about 95 c.e. That doesn't constitute "hundreds of years." There is little evidence that their beliefs were "politically-charged," other than as anathema to oppression.

 

[sojourner]

Mark's Gospel is attributed to 70-80 AD, but that is heavily debated among scholars as well as John's 120 years later.

No, it isn't "heavily debated." John's was written around 100 c.e., not 200 c.e.
Where are you getting this information?

 

[sojourner]

I study comparative religions, I have read many versions of these Gospels.

As for the politcal aspect, I am not the only one with this belief, let's look at Luke's Gospel for instance:

Luke is telling the story for a Greco-Roman audience. Luke is much more antagonistic toward Judaism. And so the gospel of Luke and its companion volume, Acts, are also reflecting the development of the Christian movement more away from the Jewish roots and in fact ...developing more toward the Roman political and social arena. This political self consciousness and ethnic self consciousness that's being reflected by Luke/Acts is beginning to say that we, the Christians, the ones who are telling this story, are no longer in quite the same way just Jews. And so there's a growing antipathy toward at least certain elements within the Jewish tradition and within Jewish society.

That social awareness does not constitute a "political agenda."

 

[sojourner]

Jesus Christ (God the Son) created this universe and is in charge of it under the direction of God the Father.

Not Biblically-supported.

Jesus Christ is the God and author of the Old and New Testament, under the direction of God the Father.

Not critically supported.

 

[sojourner]

Jesus Christ wrote the four gospels, NOT man.

Jesus inspired MAN to write the gospels after his death and resurrection.

Contradictory statements. "Wrote" and "inspired" are two completely different things.

Jesus wrote the Old and New Testament,

Wait! I thought you just said:

Jesus inspired MAN to write the gospels

over the years MAN has taken some key passages of scriptures out. Man purposely removed them, because it most likely didn't agree with his/her theologies.

there is no evidence to support this. In fact, there is more evidence to refute it.

Thus the need to RESTORE the Old and New Testament and RESTORE Jesus Christ's gospel.

No "restoration" is necessary.
IMO, Joseph Smith represents more of an evolution than a restoration.