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Baptism - what does it mean?

captainbryce

Active Member
I haven't seen this topic on here recently, so I wanted to get a sample of opinions regarding baptism. This question is obviously geared primarily towards Christians, but others are welcome to provide their own input.

What is baptism, and what is the significance of it to you? Is this a requirement for salvation?
 

Green Kepi

Active Member
According to 1 Peter 3:20-22...we are 'saved' through the water of baptism. It plainly says, "...that now water saves you also"...just like it did Noah. "It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ" (thru His shed blood). It puts one into the body (church). The water cleansed the earth...baptism does the same. Baptism saves us...but not it alone. Ephs 2:5. Just like the waters of the flood...the ark also played a part.

Galatians 3:27 - tells us that one is baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
 

ChristineES

Tiggerism
Premium Member
We are not saved through Baptism, I see it as a symbol of our new life with Jesus. I believe that Christians should be baptized.
 

Green Kepi

Active Member
We are not saved through Baptism, I see it as a symbol of our new life with Jesus. I believe that Christians should be baptized.

Twice you lead with, "I see" & "I believe"...however, too many places in Scripture it repeats that it "saves".
Mark 16:16
1 Peter 3:21
Acts 2:38
Acts 22:16
John 3:5
Ephesians 5:26
Colossians 2:11-12
Romans 6:3
Galatians 3:26-27
Romans 6:5
1 Cor. 12:13
Matthew 22:12
Hebs 10:22
Titus 3:5 - (whatever the washing is here...is easily seen to be necessary for salvation...He saves us through this...the word is "loutron"...same word used in Ephs. 5:26....
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
There is water baptism and there is holy spirit and fire baptism.

Matthew 3:11 I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
I believe that baptism is the ordinance or sacrament by which someone, having come to have faith in Jesus Christ and having repented of his or her sins, is granted remission of those sins and enters into a covenant relationship with Jesus Christ. According to the Savior himself, baptism is essential to our salvation. This doesn't mean that baptism, in and of itself, saves us, because it doesn't. But Jesus did say that he who believes and is baptized will be saved.
 

ChristineES

Tiggerism
Premium Member
Twice you lead with, "I see" & "I believe"...however, too many places in Scripture it repeats that it "saves".
Mark 16:16
1 Peter 3:21
Acts 2:38
Acts 22:16
John 3:5
Ephesians 5:26
Colossians 2:11-12
Romans 6:3
Galatians 3:26-27
Romans 6:5
1 Cor. 12:13
Matthew 22:12
Hebs 10:22
Titus 3:5 - (whatever the washing is here...is easily seen to be necessary for salvation...He saves us through this...the word is "loutron"...same word used in Ephs. 5:26....

Jesus saves. Baptism does not. A person can be baptized and not even believe in Jesus. What about the thief on the cross? He didn't have time to be baptized.
 

captainbryce

Active Member
According to 1 Peter 3:20-22...we are 'saved' through the water of baptism. It plainly says, "...that now water saves you also"...just like it did Noah. "It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ" (thru His shed blood). It puts one into the body (church). The water cleansed the earth...baptism does the same. Baptism saves us...but not it alone. Ephs 2:5. Just like the waters of the flood...the ark also played a part.
I think based on the context of the very passages you are quoting, we can assume that this is figurative and not literal.
 

captainbryce

Active Member
Twice you lead with, "I see" & "I believe"...however,
There is no "however". He answered the question exactly as I intended it to be. He gave his OPINION. Because that's all the he OR YOU could give. Thank you! :rolleyes:

Titus 3:5 - (whatever the washing is here...is easily seen to be necessary for salvation...He saves us through this...the word is "loutron"...same word used in Ephs. 5:26....
But that's ultimately at the heart of my question. WHAT IS IT?
 

captainbryce

Active Member
I believe that baptism is the ordinance or sacrament by which someone, having come to have faith in Jesus Christ and having repented of his or her sins, is granted remission of those sins and enters into a covenant relationship with Jesus Christ. According to the Savior himself, baptism is essential to our salvation. This doesn't mean that baptism, in and of itself, saves us, because it doesn't. But Jesus did say that he who believes and is baptized will be saved.
By your logic, wouldn't baptism come as a result of believing and repenting?
 

BruceDLimber

Well-Known Member
From the Baha'i scriptures:

"Chapter 19. THE BAPTISM OF CHRIST


"Question.--It is said in the Gospel of St. Matthew, chapter 3, verses 13, 14, 15: 'Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him. But John forbade Him, saying, I have need to be baptized of Thee, and comest Thou to me? And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered Him.'
"What is the wisdom of this: since Christ possessed all essential perfection, why did He need baptism?

"Answer.--The principle of baptism is purification by repentance. John admonished and exhorted the people, and caused them to repent; then he baptized them. Therefore, it is apparent that this baptism is a symbol of repentance from all sin: its meaning is expressed in these words: "O God! as my body has become purified and cleansed from physical impurities, in the same way purify and sanctify my spirit from the impurities of the world of nature, which are not worthy of the Threshold of Thy Unity!" Repentance is the return from disobedience to obedience. Man, after remoteness and deprivation from God, repents and undergoes purification: and this is a symbol signifying "O God! make my heart good and pure, freed and sanctified from all save Thy love."

"As Christ desired that this institution of John should be used at that time by all, He Himself conformed to it in order to awaken the people and to complete the law of the former religion. Although the ablution of repentance was the institution of John, it was in reality formerly practiced in the religion of God.

"Christ was not in need of baptism; but as at that time it was an acceptable and praiseworthy action, and a sign of the glad tidings of the Kingdom, therefore, He confirmed it. However, afterward He said the true baptism is not with material water, but it must be with spirit and with water. In this case water does not signify material water, for elsewhere it is explicitly said baptism is with spirit and with fire, from which it is clear that the reference is not to material fire and material water, for baptism with fire is impossible.

"Therefore, the spirit is the bounty of God, the water is knowledge and life, and the fire is the love of God. For material water does not purify the heart of man; no, it cleanses his body. But the heavenly water and spirit, which are knowledge and life, make the human heart good and pure; the heart which receives a portion of the bounty of the Spirit becomes sanctified, good and pure--that is to say, the reality of man becomes purified and sanctified from the impurities of the world of nature. These natural impurities are evil qualities: anger, lust, worldliness, pride, lying, hypocrisy, fraud, self-love, etc.

"Man cannot free himself from the rage of the carnal passions except by the help of the Holy Spirit. That is why He says baptism with the spirit, with water and with fire is necessary, and that it is essential--that is to say, the spirit of divine bounty, the water of knowledge and life, and the fire of the love of God. Man must be baptized with this spirit, this water and this fire so as to become filled with the eternal bounty. Otherwise, what is the use of baptizing with material water? No, this baptism with water was a symbol of repentance, and of seeking forgiveness of sins.
But in the cycle of Bahá'u'lláh there is no longer need of this symbol; for its reality, which is to be baptized with the spirit and love of God, is understood and established. "

--Some Answered Questions
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
By your logic, wouldn't baptism come as a result of believing and repenting?
I'm sorry... I'm afraid I don't know what you're getting at. I believe baptism should follow believing and repenting, but it is entirely possible for someone to believe in Christ and repent of his sins and yet choose not be be baptized.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
What is baptism, and what is the significance of it to you? Is this a requirement for salvation?

For infants, it's an expression of a parent's desire to choose the religion for the adult that their child will become.

For adults, it's a commitment device: it's a way for a person to publicly declare their newfound faith, thereby creating a disincentive for them to leave the faith later, since they'd lose face if they did.
 

muziko

Member
I believe baptism should follow believing and repenting, but it is entirely possible for someone to believe in Christ and repent of his sins and yet choose not be be baptized.

This sums it up nicely for my own beliefs as well :yes:
 

psychoslice

Veteran Member
Baptism is simply cleaning of the old to revel the new, its when we are renewed in Consciousness, the old carnal self is cleaned away to revel the Christ Consciousness, or Buddha Consciousness, or whatever you believe in.
 

ZenMonkey

St. James VII
It's an act that symbolizes death of the old, and rebirth of the new. The act itself is NOT necessary for salvation. Even so, those who do believe (have faith) and are baptized will be saved. Kinda like how 100% of people who eat carrots will die. It doesn't mean if you are not baptized, that you have no chance of salvation. Belief (faith) is necessary, however.
 

captainbryce

Active Member
I'm sorry... I'm afraid I don't know what you're getting at.

What I'm getting at is the fact you gave a very convoluted answer to what should have been a relatively simple question. With all due respect:

My Question: What is baptism?

Your Answer: I believe that baptism is the ordinance or sacrament by which someone, having come to have faith in Jesus Christ and having repented of his or her sins, is granted remission of those sins and enters into a covenant relationship with Jesus Christ.

That's a great philosophical answer, for what Baptism represents (according to you), but it doesn't actually tell me WHAT it is. Is baptism the act of believing an repenting? Does it happen as a result of believing an repenting? It is the ceremony of dunking in water? Is it something that the Holy Spirit does to you ceremony notwithstanding? WHAT IS IT?

Your Answer: According to the Savior himself, baptism is essential to our salvation. = Baptism is necessary.

Your Answer: This doesn't mean that baptism, in and of itself, saves us, because it doesn't. = Baptism is not necessary.

Your Answer: But Jesus did say that he who believes and is baptized will be saved. = Baptism MIGHT BE necessary.

After reading your response, I'm no more clear on the issue than I was before. For the benefit of those who might not be familiar with the Christian perspective, I'd like to know if this can be explained rationally at a level where someone who is not a Christian can know what baptism really is.

I believe baptism should follow believing and repenting, but it is entirely possible for someone to believe in Christ and repent of his sins and yet choose not be be baptized.
Perhaps, but that wasn't my question.
 

captainbryce

Active Member
For infants, it's an expression of a parent's desire to choose the religion for the adult that their child will become.

For adults, it's a commitment device: it's a way for a person to publicly declare their newfound faith, thereby creating a disincentive for them to leave the faith later, since they'd lose face if they did.
An interesting answer that probably has a fair amount of truth to it (even if it is a little judgmental and condescending). I hope that you'd take into consideration the possibility that there might be OTHER reasons that would compel someone to get baptized beyond these.

In any case, I appreciate your point of view.
 

captainbryce

Active Member
I believe baptism should follow believing and repenting, but it is entirely possible for someone to believe in Christ and repent of his sins and yet choose not be be baptized.
This sums it up nicely for my own beliefs as well :yes:
Would either of you care to elaborate on this point? Do you believe that Baptism is a requirement for salvation, or do you think that it happens as a result of someone becoming saved? This is a chicken or the egg question?
 
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