Baptism For The Dead (1 Corinthians 15:29)

[Norman]

You can jump through hoops all day long trying to justify not getting baptized (and you've done a fairly decent job of that), but the fact remains that baptism is a commandment, not a suggestion. The fact that the Bible does not specifically mention by name every one of the individuals we know believed the words of Jesus Christ means absolutely nothing.

Baptism is such a vital part of discipleship that Jesus included it in the Great Commission: we are to “make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit” (Matt. 28:19). Although a person’s sins are forgiven based on faith in Jesus alone, baptism is an important symbol of death to our old way of living and a new beginning in Christ.
For if the meaning of baptism could be boiled down to one word, that word would be "identification." It would be like a wedding ring symbolizing to whom you belong. You'd still be married to the person without it, but you wear it out of love and commitment to them, showing the world to whom you are with. The same is for baptism. You are still saved without it, for by faith you are saved, but doing it, shows your commitment and love for God through Jesus Christ. It is also a command of Christ, so every Christian should follow.
The Biblical Case:
If water baptism were necessary for salvation, we would expect to find it stressed whenever the gospel is presented in Scripture. That is not the case, however. Peter mentioned baptism in his sermon on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2:38). However, in his sermon from Solomon’s portico in the Temple (Acts 3:12-26), Peter makes no reference to baptism, but links forgiveness of sin to repentance (3:19). If baptism is necessary for the forgiveness of sin, why didn’t Peter say so in Acts 3?
Paul never made water baptism any part of his gospel presentations. In 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, Paul gives a concise summary of the gospel message he preached. There is no mention of baptism. In 1 Corinthians 1:17, Paul states that “Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel,” thus clearly differentiating the gospel from baptism.
Those passages are difficult to understand if water baptism is necessary for salvation. If baptism were part of the gospel itself, necessary for salvation, what good would it have done Paul to preach the gospel, but not baptize? No one would have been saved. Paul clearly understood water baptism to be separate from the gospel, and hence in no way efficacious for salvation.
Perhaps the most convincing refutation of the view that baptism is necessary for salvation are those who were saved apart from baptism. The penitent woman (Luke 7:37-50), the paralytic man (Matthew 9:2), the publican (Luke 18:13-14), and the thief on the cross (Luke 23:39-43) all experienced forgiveness of sins apart from baptism. For that matter, we have no record of the apostles’ being baptized, yet Jesus pronounced them clean of their sins (John 15:3—note that the Word of God, not baptism, is what cleansed them).
The Bible also gives us an example of people who were saved before being baptized. In Acts 10:44-48, Cornelius and those with him were converted through Peter’s message. That they were saved before being baptized is evident from their reception of the Holy Spirit (v. 44) and the gifts of the Spirit (v. 46) before their baptism. Indeed, it is the fact that they had received the Holy Spirit (and hence were saved) that led Peter to baptize them (v.47).
Water baptism is certainly important, and required of every believer. However, the New Testament does not teach that baptism is necessary for salvation.

Norman:JFish123, I will simplify this for you in regards to Baptism.

Matthew 3:13 ¶Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized‍ of him. 14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15 And‍ Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so‍ now: for thus it becometh us‍ to fulfil‍ all righteousness. Then he suffered him. 16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway‍ out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit‍ of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 17 And lo a voice‍ from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

2 Nephi 31:4 Wherefore, I would that ye should remember that I have spoken unto you concerning that prophet‍ which the Lord showed unto me, that should baptize the Lamb‍ of God, which should take away the sins of the world. 5 And now, if the Lamb of God, he being holy, should have need to be baptized‍ by water, to fulfil all righteousness, O then, how much more need have we, being unholy, to be baptized, yea, even by water! 6 And now, I would ask of you, my beloved brethren, wherein the Lamb of God did fulfil all righteousness in being baptized by water? 7Know ye not that he was holy? But notwithstanding he being holy, he showeth unto the children of men that, according to the flesh he humbleth himself before the Father, and witnesseth unto the Father that he would be obedient‍ unto him in keeping his commandments. 8 Wherefore, after he was baptized with water the Holy Ghost descended upon him in the form‍ of a dove. 9 And again, it showeth unto the children of men the straitness of the path, and the narrowness of the gate, by which they should enter, he having set the example‍ before them.

Jesus was and is our exemplar in all things, he showed us the way and the path that we should follow to obtain eternal salvation. Jesus stood in proxy for us as he took upon him self all the sins of the world, he gave his life and was resurrected. In turn, we stand in proxy with baptism of our dead, doing something for them that they cannot do for themselves.

 

[JFish123]

Norman:JFish123, I will simplify this for you in regards to Baptism.

Matthew 3:13 ¶Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized‍ of him. 14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15 And‍ Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so‍ now: for thus it becometh us‍ to fulfil‍ all righteousness. Then he suffered him. 16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway‍ out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit‍ of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 17 And lo a voice‍ from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

2 Nephi 31:4 Wherefore, I would that ye should remember that I have spoken unto you concerning that prophet‍ which the Lord showed unto me, that should baptize the Lamb‍ of God, which should take away the sins of the world. 5 And now, if the Lamb of God, he being holy, should have need to be baptized‍ by water, to fulfil all righteousness, O then, how much more need have we, being unholy, to be baptized, yea, even by water! 6 And now, I would ask of you, my beloved brethren, wherein the Lamb of God did fulfil all righteousness in being baptized by water? 7Know ye not that he was holy? But notwithstanding he being holy, he showeth unto the children of men that, according to the flesh he humbleth himself before the Father, and witnesseth unto the Father that he would be obedient‍ unto him in keeping his commandments. 8 Wherefore, after he was baptized with water the Holy Ghost descended upon him in the form‍ of a dove. 9 And again, it showeth unto the children of men the straitness of the path, and the narrowness of the gate, by which they should enter, he having set the example‍ before them.

Jesus was and is our exemplar in all things, he showed us the way and the path that we should follow to obtain eternal salvation. Jesus stood in proxy for us as he took upon him self all the sins of the world, he gave his life and was resurrected. In turn, we stand in proxy with baptism of our dead, doing something for them that they cannot do for themselves.

Sorry but no second chances. Like Paul said. You die once and then the Judgement.

 

[Norman]

People, particularly Mormons, believe in Baptism for the dead. They quote 1Corinthians:
"Otherwise, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why then are they baptized for them?" (1 Cor. 15:29, NASB)
In verses 1-19, the fact of Christ's resurrection is detailed by Paul. Beginning in verse 20 and going through verse 23, Paul speaks about the order of the resurrection. Christ was the first one raised--in a glorified body--and next will be those who are His at His return. Verses 24-29 then mention Christ's reign and the abolition of death. This is when this controversial verse occurs: "Otherwise, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why then are they baptized for them?"
Just north of Corinth was a city named Eleusis. This was the location of a pagan religion where baptism in the sea was practiced to guarantee a good afterlife. This religion was mentioned by Homer in Hymn to Demeter 478-79.1 The Corinthians were known to be heavily influenced by other customs. After all, they were in a large economic area where a great many different people frequented. It is probable that the Corinthians were being influenced by the religious practices found at Eleusis where baptism for the dead was practiced.
Paul used this example from the pagans in 1 Cor. 15:29, when he said, " . . . if the dead are not raised, then why are they baptized for the dead?" Paul did not say "we."
This is significant because the Christian church was not practicing baptism for the dead, but the pagans were.
Paul's point was simple. The resurrection is a reality. It is going to happen when Jesus returns. Even the pagans believe in the resurrection; otherwise, why would THEY baptize for the dead?
You only have one life to choose Christ:
"And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment..." - Hebrews 9:27
So we must choose wisely and not wait, for waiting might be too late.

Norman: JFish123, That Paul was not condemning the practice of baptism for the dead is evidenced by the fact that he cites it as evidence for the resurrection, as is clear from a full quote of the verse: "Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?" Clearly, the practice would have been foolish if there were no resurrection. That Paul was not referring to some ancient Babylonian, pagan or Gnostic practice is evidenced by the fact that his audience must have been acquainted with the practice. It makes little sense for an apostle to cite a pagan practice as evidence for the resurrection. This point was made in a recent article by Richard E. DeMaris, a scholar at Valparaiso University, in his article, "Corinthian Religion and Baptism for the Dead (1 Corinthians 15:29): Insights from Archaeology and Anthropology," Journal of Biblical Literature 114/4 (Winter 1995). The Greek original of 1 Corinthians 15:29 does not use the pronoun "they." It says, "Otherwise, what will do the ones being baptized for the dead?" The text uses a passive participle form, "the being baptized [ones]," used as a substantive (where it is usually accompanied by the definite article). Participles reflect gender, number and case, but not person. Hence, there is no third person plural ("they") in the Greek original. Placing stress on the pronoun supplied by the English Bible translators for flow in English distorts Paul's meaning. The passage, being devoid of reference to person, does not exclude the Christians as the ones who performed the rite, as the critics have claimed.

 

[Desert Snake]

So those who never heard of Christ are doomed?

Who hasn't heard of Christ?

 

[Norman]

People, particularly Mormons, believe in Baptism for the dead. They quote 1Corinthians:
"Otherwise, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why then are they baptized for them?" (1 Cor. 15:29, NASB)
In verses 1-19, the fact of Christ's resurrection is detailed by Paul. Beginning in verse 20 and going through verse 23, Paul speaks about the order of the resurrection. Christ was the first one raised--in a glorified body--and next will be those who are His at His return. Verses 24-29 then mention Christ's reign and the abolition of death. This is when this controversial verse occurs: "Otherwise, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why then are they baptized for them?"
Just north of Corinth was a city named Eleusis. This was the location of a pagan religion where baptism in the sea was practiced to guarantee a good afterlife. This religion was mentioned by Homer in Hymn to Demeter 478-79.1 The Corinthians were known to be heavily influenced by other customs. After all, they were in a large economic area where a great many different people frequented. It is probable that the Corinthians were being influenced by the religious practices found at Eleusis where baptism for the dead was practiced.
Paul used this example from the pagans in 1 Cor. 15:29, when he said, " . . . if the dead are not raised, then why are they baptized for the dead?" Paul did not say "we."
This is significant because the Christian church was not practicing baptism for the dead, but the pagans were.
Paul's point was simple. The resurrection is a reality. It is going to happen when Jesus returns. Even the pagans believe in the resurrection; otherwise, why would THEY baptize for the dead?
You only have one life to choose Christ:
"And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment..." - Hebrews 9:27
So we must choose wisely and not wait, for waiting might be too late.

Norman: Hi JFish123, you simply are a lazy debater, plagiarizing from this web-site
What Is Baptism for the Dead Mentioned in I Corinthians 15:29?|Christian Church Was Not Practicing Baptism for the Dead|The Pagans Were Practicing Baptism for the Dead

Therefore, I give no answer.

 

[Norman]

Norman: JFish123, That Paul was not condemning the practice of baptism for the dead is evidenced by the fact that he cites it as evidence for the resurrection, as is clear from a full quote of the verse: "Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?" Clearly, the practice would have been foolish if there were no resurrection. That Paul was not referring to some ancient Babylonian, pagan or Gnostic practice is evidenced by the fact that his audience must have been acquainted with the practice. It makes little sense for an apostle to cite a pagan practice as evidence for the resurrection. This point was made in a recent article by Richard E. DeMaris, a scholar at Valparaiso University, in his article, "Corinthian Religion and Baptism for the Dead (1 Corinthians 15:29): Insights from Archaeology and Anthropology," Journal of Biblical Literature 114/4 (Winter 1995). The Greek original of 1 Corinthians 15:29 does not use the pronoun "they." It says, "Otherwise, what will do the ones being baptized for the dead?" The text uses a passive participle form, "the being baptized [ones]," used as a substantive (where it is usually accompanied by the definite article). Participles reflect gender, number and case, but not person. Hence, there is no third person plural ("they") in the Greek original. Placing stress on the pronoun supplied by the English Bible translators for flow in English distorts Paul's meaning. The passage, being devoid of reference to person, does not exclude the Christians as the ones who performed the rite, as the critics have claimed.

Norman: I caught this after I posted, you were at it again, plagiarizing. You plagiarized with out a source, I will post your source for you:
What Is Baptism for the Dead Mentioned in I Corinthians 15:29?|Christian Church Was Not Practicing Baptism for the Dead|The Pagans Were Practicing Baptism for the Dead
Still a lazy debater.

 

[Norman]

Norman:JFish123, I will simplify this for you in regards to Baptism.

Matthew 3:13 ¶Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized‍ of him. 14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15 And‍ Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so‍ now: for thus it becometh us‍ to fulfil‍ all righteousness. Then he suffered him. 16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway‍ out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit‍ of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 17 And lo a voice‍ from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

2 Nephi 31:4 Wherefore, I would that ye should remember that I have spoken unto you concerning that prophet‍ which the Lord showed unto me, that should baptize the Lamb‍ of God, which should take away the sins of the world. 5 And now, if the Lamb of God, he being holy, should have need to be baptized‍ by water, to fulfil all righteousness, O then, how much more need have we, being unholy, to be baptized, yea, even by water! 6 And now, I would ask of you, my beloved brethren, wherein the Lamb of God did fulfil all righteousness in being baptized by water? 7Know ye not that he was holy? But notwithstanding he being holy, he showeth unto the children of men that, according to the flesh he humbleth himself before the Father, and witnesseth unto the Father that he would be obedient‍ unto him in keeping his commandments. 8 Wherefore, after he was baptized with water the Holy Ghost descended upon him in the form‍ of a dove. 9 And again, it showeth unto the children of men the straitness of the path, and the narrowness of the gate, by which they should enter, he having set the example‍ before them.

Jesus was and is our exemplar in all things, he showed us the way and the path that we should follow to obtain eternal salvation. Jesus stood in proxy for us as he took upon him self all the sins of the world, he gave his life and was resurrected. In turn, we stand in proxy with baptism of our dead, doing something for them that they cannot do for themselves.

Norman: Hello JFish123, In post #

Norman:JFish123, I will simplify this for you in regards to Baptism.

Matthew 3:13 ¶Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized‍ of him. 14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15 And‍ Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so‍ now: for thus it becometh us‍ to fulfil‍ all righteousness. Then he suffered him. 16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway‍ out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit‍ of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 17 And lo a voice‍ from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

2 Nephi 31:4 Wherefore, I would that ye should remember that I have spoken unto you concerning that prophet‍ which the Lord showed unto me, that should baptize the Lamb‍ of God, which should take away the sins of the world. 5 And now, if the Lamb of God, he being holy, should have need to be baptized‍ by water, to fulfil all righteousness, O then, how much more need have we, being unholy, to be baptized, yea, even by water! 6 And now, I would ask of you, my beloved brethren, wherein the Lamb of God did fulfil all righteousness in being baptized by water? 7Know ye not that he was holy? But notwithstanding he being holy, he showeth unto the children of men that, according to the flesh he humbleth himself before the Father, and witnesseth unto the Father that he would be obedient‍ unto him in keeping his commandments. 8 Wherefore, after he was baptized with water the Holy Ghost descended upon him in the form‍ of a dove. 9 And again, it showeth unto the children of men the straitness of the path, and the narrowness of the gate, by which they should enter, he having set the example‍ before them.

Jesus was and is our exemplar in all things, he showed us the way and the path that we should follow to obtain eternal salvation. Jesus stood in proxy for us as he took upon him self all the sins of the world, he gave his life and was resurrected. In turn, we stand in proxy with baptism of our dead, doing something for them that they cannot do for themselves.

Norman: In regards to your post #62 II see that you plagerized all your information from the web-sites and a PDF file below. It is obvious that you cherry-picked your way around the internet to give an answer (s) to my OP. Usually, one would list sources to support there point of view if that is what they are trying to do? This seems not to be the case with you, just a response on your part of laziness. I listed your plagiarized sources below for you.

InTouch Ministries > Read - Baptism

What is Baptism and What Does it Mean?

www.gty.org/resources/PDF/Questions/QA79

John Fullerton MacArthur, Jr. is an American pastor and author known for his internationally syndicated radio program Grace to You.

PDF file called Grace to You : Unleashing God's Truth, One Verse at a Time

Is Baptism Necessary for Salvation?

Scripture: Acts 2:38; Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8-9; Philippians 3:9

Code: QA79

Is Baptism Necessary for Salvation? .No.Let's examine what the Scriptures teach on this issue:

 

[Norman]

Ah, baptisms for the dead. Where old men get to see teenage boys and girls wearing white, clingy jump suits get soaking wet.

Norman: You are sick zomg and your post has nothing to do with the OP

 

[zomg]

Norman: You are sick zomg and your post has nothing to do with the OP

Sorry for stating the truth.

 

[Hong Xiuquan]

I do agree with everything you have said here, and I have no doubt but that God will be just. Still, a person who has never even heard of Jesus Christ can hardly be expected to look to Him as his Savior. For us, it's not just a matter of getting into heaven. It's a matter of finding joy and comfort in the knowledge that the Son of God loved me enough to die for me. I would rather learn that after death (but prior to the Final Judgment) than to just be admitted into heaven not understanding what a beautiful plan God had designed for His children.

I'm sure that Christ would have explained what he did on the cross to all those ones counted "righteous" (as mentioned in Hebrews) waiting in Abraham's Bosom before they entered Heaven. They would have wanted to know what had made it possible for them to enter Heaven.

 

[Hong Xiuquan]

Norman: Hi Hong Xiuquan, excuse me for jumping in here. I would like to answer your question that you posed to Katzpur. Paradise, or “Abraham’s bosom”, cannot be equated with the kingdom of God, for at his resurrection Jesus told Mary: “Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father. (John 20:17.) Thief on the cross, Christ taught that there are two main divisions, which He called Paradise (Persian word), means ‘garden’), or Abraham’s Bosom, and hell. All spoken of in Luke 16: Jesus speaking to the thief on the cross…Luke 23;43…And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. (I put emphasis on paradise, which is not the final resting place for those who depart this life)

The great gulf between hell and paradise mentioned in Luke 16: and 23: Was destroyed by Jesus Christ, who made it possible for the gospel to be preached to the spirits in hell (spirit prison, as Isaiah and Peter called it), so they may advance to paradise. (see 1 Peter 3:18-21; 1 Peter 4:5-6) Isaiah 41:7…To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the Prison and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.

Zechariah 9:11…As for thee also, by the blood of my convenant I have sent forth thy prisoners of the pit wherein is no water.
Obadiah 1:21 And saviors‍ shall come up on mount Zion‍ to judge‍ the mount of Esau; and the kingdom‍ shall be the Lord’s. (Saviors on Mount Zion are those who perform work for our kindred dead)
Matthew 12:40…For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
John 5:25...Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
1Peter 3:19…By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison.
1 Peter 3:20…By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
1 Peter 4:5…Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick (“living” in the Greek) and the dead (physical death).
2 Peter 4:6…For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
Hebrews 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect. (Paul Is referring to those who are dead, cannot accept the gospel without proxy ordinances by the living)

View attachment 10199
Luke 16:19-31? Before the death of Jesus Christ, there was a “great gulf” between spirit prison and spirit paradise, meaning that spirits could not move from one place or condition to the other. Latter-Day revelation helps us understand that “spirit prison” includes not only the wicked who did not repent of their sins (like the rich man in the parable of Lazarus) but also good people who are waiting to learn and accept the fullness of the gospel. Such good people do not suffer torment like the wicked rich man in the parable.

View attachment 10200
The Atonement of Jesus Christ bridged the gulf between spirit prison and spirit paradise so that the gospel could be preached to those in spirit prison. Rom. 5: 11…And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

Paul taught it best that there is a just God, in Romans 10:13-15…For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved…(14)…How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in him of whom they have not hear? And how shall they hear without a preacher?…(15)…And how shall they preach except they be sent? As it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace and bring glad tiding’s of good things?…(Messengers must be sent in this life and in the world of spirits)

Thank you Norman, for sharing the LDS teaching on Paradise and Abraham's Bosom.

 

[Hong Xiuquan]

Norman: Hi JFish123, do you have any thing else you would like to add to support your claim?

Norman: What he said is actually mainstream Christian teaching.

 

[Hong Xiuquan]

Who hasn't heard of Christ?

I have a thread titled "Where did Good People go Before Christ Died on the Cross?" and we discuss this topic there.

 

[Hong Xiuquan]

Norman: I caught this after I posted, you were at it again, plagiarizing. You plagiarized with out a source, I will post your source for you:
What Is Baptism for the Dead Mentioned in I Corinthians 15:29?|Christian Church Was Not Practicing Baptism for the Dead|The Pagans Were Practicing Baptism for the Dead
Still a lazy debater.

I will give you credit where credit is due Norman.....and you and the other LDSs put in a lot of time and effort to answer questions.

 

[Hong Xiuquan]

Norman: Hello JFish123, In post #


Norman: In regards to your post #62 II see that you plagerized all your information from the web-sites and a PDF file below. It is obvious that you cherry-picked your way around the internet to give an answer (s) to my OP. Usually, one would list sources to support there point of view if that is what they are trying to do? This seems not to be the case with you, just a response on your part of laziness. I listed your plagiarized sources below for you.

InTouch Ministries > Read - Baptism

What is Baptism and What Does it Mean?

www.gty.org/resources/PDF/Questions/QA79

John Fullerton MacArthur, Jr. is an American pastor and author known for his internationally syndicated radio program Grace to You.

PDF file called Grace to You : Unleashing God's Truth, One Verse at a Time

Is Baptism Necessary for Salvation?

Scripture: Acts 2:38; Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8-9; Philippians 3:9

Code: QA79

Is Baptism Necessary for Salvation? .No.Let's examine what the Scriptures teach on this issue:

Norman: Don't be too hard on him. He probably needs assistance to debate against you. Take it in a positive way.....you must be a good debater, if someone needs to find experts to argue against you.

 

[Hong Xiuquan]

Sorry for stating the truth.

Maybe the truth is that you go to see baptisms for that reason.

 

[Norman]

Norman: Don't be too hard on him. He probably needs assistance to debate against you. Take it in a positive way.....you must be a good debater, if someone needs to find experts to argue against you.

Norman: Hi Hong Xiuquan, I have no problem with plagiarizing as long as the person quotes the source. Thanks for you in-put.

 

[Norman]

I will give you credit where credit is due Norman.....and you and the other LDSs put in a lot of time and effort to answer questions.

Norman: Hi Hong Xiuquan, I don't mean to make a big deal out of this, I appreciate everyone who has participated in my thread.

 

[Norman]

Sorry for stating the truth.

Norman: Hi zomg, stating what truth?

 

[Norman]

Norman: What he said is actually mainstream Christian teaching.

Norman: Hi Hong Xiuquan, I understand that, I just do not think it is asking to much for people to list there sources, especially if they are going to quote
someone verbatim.