They do tend to have one outstanding characteristic: charisma. People reward the most charismatic folks with power regardless of their other characteristics. I mean, this might make sense if politicians were entertainers, but they're policy makers. What's wrong with that picture?
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Aussie government spying on Indonesia
- Thread starter Gharib
- Start date
They do tend to have one outstanding characteristic: charisma. People reward the most charismatic folks with power regardless of their other characteristics. I mean, this might make sense if politicians were entertainers, but they're policy makers. What's wrong with that picture?
Most countries are probably spying on each other. I find it hard to believe that they wouldn't be doing so. Perhaps "nations" should just stop the charade and pretentiousness and start actually being true to themselves and each other. Is it impossible? What forces are preventing it? Are those forces justifiable?
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NobodyYouKnow
Misanthropist
I wonder what would happen if Indonesia declared war with us.
It would probably be the start of WW3, so that's what they are trying to avoid, because we've got NZ, Malaysia, USA, Europe etc on our side via all those treaties, while they have the Middle-East on their side due to religion.
It would probably be the start of WW3, so that's what they are trying to avoid, because we've got NZ, Malaysia, USA, Europe etc on our side via all those treaties, while they have the Middle-East on their side due to religion.
Meanwhile, all "sides" are blind to the fact that reality is multifaceted and ultimately transcends all their little black and white boxes. Like fools, they follow relative history as if it were an absolute guide to common humanity.
Nations are a bad joke.
apophenia
Well-Known Member
Kallisti !
Ah yes, the apple of discord, only presented to the fairest nation of all, except that they all believe they are the fairest.
apophenia
Well-Known Member
I think you would enjoy reading DBC Pierre
Any particular book recommendations?
apophenia
Well-Known Member
He's written three novels. I recommend them all. Maybe just chronological order. I'm currently reading his third, from 2010 - 'Lights Out in Wonderland'.
For an American, maybe start with his second - 'Vernon God Little', which won a Booker prize. I have a feeling you would love it.
Sounds interesting. I've been getting back into reading more so I'll add it to the list.
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
C'mon folks, don't lose sight of the forest by being concerned about one tree!
There is a battle going on for control of the whole planet, and these sort of things are ubiquitous. The only reason in this case it became public was due to whistle blower Snowden's release of NSA secrets. Australian intelligence gathering on Indonesia was going to America which is vying to be the imperial power on the planet, and australia is part of the team. Of course there is team Russia, Team Europe, Team China, etc.. The prime minister of Australia has no real independence in these matters, in fact Abbot probably didn't know, and considering it happened in 2009, the ALP PM of the time would probably not have known it was going on. ASIO would have an understanding with NSA wrt who has the right to know certain secret activities relevant to the strategies for the gaining of control of planet Earth.
So don't worry about the storm in the tea cup, you can be sure nothing has changed and it still going on now despite the shameful revelation...that's the nature of trying to take over control of the planet of 7 billion people, only the most sophisticated, powerful, deceitful, ruthless, amoral, dreadful alliance of evil people will win the day.
There is a battle going on for control of the whole planet, and these sort of things are ubiquitous. The only reason in this case it became public was due to whistle blower Snowden's release of NSA secrets. Australian intelligence gathering on Indonesia was going to America which is vying to be the imperial power on the planet, and australia is part of the team. Of course there is team Russia, Team Europe, Team China, etc.. The prime minister of Australia has no real independence in these matters, in fact Abbot probably didn't know, and considering it happened in 2009, the ALP PM of the time would probably not have known it was going on. ASIO would have an understanding with NSA wrt who has the right to know certain secret activities relevant to the strategies for the gaining of control of planet Earth.
So don't worry about the storm in the tea cup, you can be sure nothing has changed and it still going on now despite the shameful revelation...that's the nature of trying to take over control of the planet of 7 billion people, only the most sophisticated, powerful, deceitful, ruthless, amoral, dreadful alliance of evil people will win the day.
While unsurprising, I think it's an absolute joke that Australian citizens think this is something worth criticizing their PM for, and think that it's not something that happens every day, with good reason. I'm very proud of Tony Abbot (although I did not vote for him) for how he has handled this situation. The Indonesians already know that military response is suicidal, and are now fully aware of the fact that Australia's new right-wing government will not bow to international pressure from behind the desk. If they don't like how they are viewed by Australia's government, then they are more than welcome to take our annual half-a-billion dollars in aid and shove it up their arse.
Closest ally? Not bloody likely. Indonesia is an impoverished, corrupt nation densely populated by Muslims with a military that, while extremely sub-par and outfitted with outdated assets in all areas, is something certainly worth noting, considering it is only a matter of kilometres from our coast. It is not an ally of Australia - it is an acquaintance for the purpose of trade and a relative power in south-east Asia, and it is right that they are monitored.
In regards to spying for the U.S. - so what? To correct you, the U.S. is our closest military ally, and our goals are the same - a greater sphere of influence in the south-east Asian theatre between our two countries. This is because no matter how progressive, sensitive, politically correct or liberal you are towards certain groups of nations of the world, it will always be us-versus-them, and you'd better be darn thankful that there are still people in this country who defend with their lives your right to voice your ignorance.
Closest ally? Not bloody likely. Indonesia is an impoverished, corrupt nation densely populated by Muslims with a military that, while extremely sub-par and outfitted with outdated assets in all areas, is something certainly worth noting, considering it is only a matter of kilometres from our coast. It is not an ally of Australia - it is an acquaintance for the purpose of trade and a relative power in south-east Asia, and it is right that they are monitored.
In regards to spying for the U.S. - so what? To correct you, the U.S. is our closest military ally, and our goals are the same - a greater sphere of influence in the south-east Asian theatre between our two countries. This is because no matter how progressive, sensitive, politically correct or liberal you are towards certain groups of nations of the world, it will always be us-versus-them, and you'd better be darn thankful that there are still people in this country who defend with their lives your right to voice your ignorance.
Tiapan
Grumpy Old Man
I would have been very disappointed if our government did not have these people under continuous surveillance, especially Indonesia the most populous Muslim Nation on the Planet who has more than its share of radical Islamists who seem to enjoy blowing bunches of us Ozzies to bits. The most embarrassing aspect is that we were clumsy enough to get caught.
No, the most embarrassing aspect is that we continue to feed them well over half-a-billion Dollars every year to build more mosques and line the pockets of their corrupt politicians.
Want to cut spending and reverse the federal budget? Don't give a cent to Indonesia. Divert it to military spending instead, Australia just can't do with a 'defence force' any more.