Arranged and Forced Marriages

[michel]

http://www.zackvision.com/weblog/2003/06/arranged-marriage.html

Procrastination

The art of keeping up with yesterday's blogging


I don't know just how much this phenomenon affects people living in the States, but here in the U.K, we have a very large Indian/Pakistani population.

Even though the Government have done their best to curb the practice of forced marriages, I heard just recently of the story of a young Indian man, who was promissed to a young lady in India. They had never met.

He was invited to 'holiday' back home; as soon as he got there, he tells how he was 'detained against his will' (virtually emprisoned) by his parents, who insisted that the marriage that had been arranged between him and a local girl take place.

He didn't want to marry the girl, he had made a life for himself in England, and was most anxious to retain his freedom. He managed to escape, fly back to England, and 'hide' here, forever cut off from his family.

I found this article:-
ہفتہ 14 جون 2003Saturday, June 14, 2003

Arranged Marriage

Previous Posts in my series on marriage: Cousin marriage, forced marriage in Pakistan, forced marriage in Islam.

I had completely forgotten about completing this series until I saw Yasmine comment on Abez’s blog (no permalinks; look up the June 10 post titled “How I Own 1/7th of Riaz’s heart”).

Although Western socities tend to deride arranged marriages as backward and uncivilized and primitive, there do exist positive aspects. For example, Westerners focus more on the physical aspect of relationships, and are thus obsessed with love, sex, beauty, etc. As a result, people get married based on these factors and then get disenchanted with one another very easily. The divorce rate in Western countries such as the U.S. has skyrocketed. […]In contrast, Eastern cultures that practice arranged marriages place far more emphasis on the practical, such as integrity, diligence, ambition, humility, generosity, etc. People get married based on practical reasons, and work on building affection later. Strong characteristics like the ones described above are very conducive to building love and affection in Eastern marriages. As a result, these marriages are much longer-lasting than many Western marriages (at least, based on what i’ve seen so far). It’s BECAUSE the primary emphasis is NOT on love, sex, and physical beauty that arranged marriages are usually so successful, because the spouses get to know one another on a practical level first, looking beyond trivial issues such as beauty or lack thereof.
And, of course, i know it can go both ways: there ARE many arranged marriages that are just total hell, and there are marriages that started out based only on infatuation and grew stronger as time passed. But I think as long one as looks for the right characteristics in a potential spouse, then, arranged marriage or not, ‘s all good.

​

I won’t reply to her points directly but a discussion of the similar ideas comes later in this post.
First, we need to consider what an arranged marriage is. It is basically a marriage which is arranged by someone other than the couple themselves, usually their parents. It encompasses a lot of different varieties: the harshest arranged marriages are almost forced upon the bride or groom while the most liberal ones start with just an introduction of the coouple through their parents and the rest is up to the couple.
Traditionally in arranged marriages, the decision is made by the parents of the couple and they have to abide by that decision. It was quite likely that they would see each other for the first time after their wedding. These marriages are still prevalent though in lesser numbers than the past. I know quite a few people who are actually proud that they did not meet with their spouse before marriage and married a total stranger. Another thing that I have heard happen is that the parents are usually so confident of their child agreeing to whoever they arrange their marriage with that they don’t bother asking for their opinion before finalizing the proposal. The guy or girl is then left with little choice but to agree.
Then there is the emotional pressure or even emotional blackmail. Parents beseech their children to agree to a proposal before they die or make use of other emotional pressures. A very mild example is shown in this Washington Post article:

 

[michel]

Part2

But the Patels didn’t drop the idea [of going to India from the US to look for a groom for their daughter], and Indian daughters hesitate to defy their parents. Many times her mother had prepared vegetarian meals for Vibha while she was away at college, and her father had driven nearly five hours to Blacksburg to deliver them, then turned around and headed home – how could she now dismiss their wishes? Her father’s eldest brother, dying in a nearby hospice with the whole family gathered around, yearned to see her engaged – shouldn’t she give him this final pleasure?

​

The more liberal arranged marriages nowadays are called “semi-arranged marriage,” or “arranged introduction” by some people. Here, the process starts with the parents but the guy and girl have input as well and the final decision is the couple’s. That’s why some proponents of arranged marriage say that it is no different than your mom setting you up on a date. However, there is a huge difference.

They [the parents] run ads, canvass Web sites, put the word out on the community grapevine: Dad’s aunt knows a nice Bengali family in Atlanta whose nephew is an electrical engineer. Mom’s medical school classmate in Detroit has a cousin with a single daughter working with computers in Bangalore.
After their parents perform due diligence – Hindu marriages are considered a union of two families, not merely two individuals, so bloodlines and reputations matter – the children meet and spend time together and decide whether their relationship has a future. A voluntary process, no different from having your friends fix you up, the fixed-up like to say.
But it is different. Families — many of whom disapprove of or forbid dating — don’t want to introduce their kids to someone to hang out with or move in with; they want a wedding, and soon. Vinay’s relatives think that after he’s spent three or four evenings with a woman, he ought to know: She’s his future bride or she’s history.

​

So the parents have a large amount of input in deciding who gets through the initial vetting. Also, there is pressure to make a decision. One is not allowed to take the time it takes to get to know someone, but has to decide on a deadline.

In Muslim families, one-on-one meeting is generally out. So the couple get together along with their parents or in more liberal families with a chaperone. Try meeting your future wife for the only time before your wedding decision in front of both your parents and then try striking up a conversation with her.

People think that the do-it-yourself marriages (“love marriages”) in the West rely on superficial characteristics like physical beauty. Here’s the ad placed by Vinay’s parents:

Punjabi parents desire beautiful, professional, never married, US raised girl for handsome son, 34, 5’10”/150, fair, slim, athletic, engineer/MBA, consultant in DC area. Enjoys travel, sports, music. Please reply …

​

When parents go looking for a spouse for their child, they consider beauty, ethnicity, religion, education, social/financial status and even horoscopes. Which of these criteria are superficial? There are times when a guy’s mom would reject girls because of the smallest “defects” in physical appearance. Or because of the girl being a bit older than the guy (even by a few months).

Ethnicity and religion are very important factors that most parents don’t overlook for arranged marriages. I know a number of guys whose families insisted that they had to marry another Pathan (an ethnic group in NWFP, Pakistan and in Afghanistan) even though these guys and their families had otherwise completely assimilated in Lahore or Karachi for hundreds of years. No one in their families spoke Pashto or Dari, the languages that Pathans/Pashtuns speak. Still their families would not think of marrying someone outside their definition of the tribes that comprise the Pathans.
Imagine how many parents in the US are comfortable with their children marrying someone of another race. Now think what would happen if these parents could decide who could or could not marry their kid. The result would definitely be far less miscegenation. And that’s what happens in societies with arranged marriages.

In the end, the discussion of arranged and love marriages comes down to which is better. Obviously, the one that leads to more successful marriages. Proponents of arranged marriage claim that it is more successful, but their definition of success focusses on divorce rates.

It [arranged marriage] works better than Americans’ impulsive love marriages, which so often split apart. “We have less divorce,” Vibha’s mother points out. “That’s what results tell us.”

​

But are divorce rates really a measure of successful marriage? Do all the couples that don’t get divorced stay happy with each other? The prevalence of divorce in a society depends on a lot of factors including the stigma of divorce.

In fact, the advantages and drawbacks of arranged marriages can’t be so easily appraised. The incidence of divorce among Indian-born Americans is dramatically lower than among Americans generally, but that partly reflects the continuing stigma of divorce. Even as the divorce rate among Indian Americans appears to be increasing, the topic is rarely discussed. […]Divorce reflects poorly on an Indian family, and some proportion of arranged marriages endure not because they are successful or rewarding, but because leaving them would bring such shame.

​

In addition, the concept of a woman living independently is foreign to most people in South Asian culture. Also, a majority of women don’t work in Pakistan and hence find it difficult to have enough money to support themselves without getting married or after getting divorced.

And many endure because the definition of success differs from Western ideas. Traditional Indians don’t expect a partner to be that improbable combination of soul mate/confidante/red-hot lover/best friend. “The husband-wife bond is one of reliability and dependability and complementary family roles – raising children, caring for elders,” explains Karen Leonard, author of The South Asian Americans and a University of California-Irvine anthropologist. “They may communicate very little in intimate ways, and it’s still a good marriage.”

​

Hence, they are married as strangers and stay strangers all their lives.


Arranged marriages are the norm in Pakistan and if its proponents are right, then marriages should be very successful there in general. In terms of divorce rates, they are but then how to explain this:

Estimates of the percentage of women who experience domestic violence in Pakistan range from 70 to upwards of 90 percent.

​

A lot of people nowadays think that arranged marriages are somehow tied to Islam or Muslims. In fact, arranged marriages are common in a lot of societies in Africa and Asia. They are the norm in India and Japan among other countries.

What is the position of Islam on the topic of arranged marriage? As I mentioned in my post about forced marriage in Islam, traditional and conservative scholars require the approval of the bride’s guardian for her marriage (a position I disagree with). In addition, conservatives are wary of any kind of mixing of the sexes socially. Therefore, for women, there is not much of a practical way out of this dilemma. Some modern scholars however disagree and allow a couple to get married without parental involvement. They still disagree with dating, but meeting of the couple for the purpose of making a decision about marriage is allowed. So, the marriage would tend to be like the “semi-arranged marriage.”
A final question to anyone who favors arranged marriage and specially those who don’t want the couple to get to know each other before marriage: What do you think about having sex with a stranger to whom you are married? Or do you think a couple like that should wait until they know each other better.

What do you all think about this subject ? Is this just one more example of trying to mix two cultures, which would best be kept separate ? - is this a case for Cultures not to mix ? What do you all think ?

 

[nutshell]

This is a very disappointing thread. Arranged marriages are extremely successful and the truth is, those cultures that practice arranged marriages have the same shock and disbelief about our Western concept as we do for them.

Criticizing arranged marriages is a direct result of one's own ethno-centric and cultural specific influences. It wasn't too long ago that arranged marriages were practiced in Western culture as well. We now "marry for love" and what a wonderful result that's had.:sarcastic

 

[Jaymes]

I actually did a report on arranged marriage for my English 191 class a while back. One of the more interesting things I found out was that in Bangladesh arranged marriage is the norm, and divorce is readily available and even considered necessary in abusive situations. While in India and Pakistan arranged marriage is the norm and divorce is frowned upon (and in India pretty much crippling to the wife), I thought the bit about Bangladesh was very interesting.

It has a lot of potential for abuse, but people seem to be getting away from that... There are even some websites set up to assist in finding brides or husbands for people. And, if you look at things like eharmony.com, which don't allow you to list a profile on their site unless you intend to marry, it's in Western culture to a degree.

If anyone likes I can find a place to upload my paper and let you guys read it.

 

[evearael]

This root of the issue is should you interfer with a culture alien to you because it runs against your moral beliefs, or should you allow it to coexist because they are entitled to their own culture. Your answer to this should also agree with your beliefs regarding infanticide, female genital mutilation and even the Christian convert in Afghanistan who will likely be killed. It also touches on whether morality is black or white, thus retaining definition across cultures, or shades of gray, thus subjective based on the culture in question.

I tend to follow an exerpt from the Desiderata "As far as possible without compromise, be on good terms with all persons." Arranged marriages are personally distasteful to me. However, if it is between consentual adults, I have no quarrel. Forced marriages have no moral ground to stand on, in my humble opinion. I believe ethics are black and white, but there is so much static from desires, we can only percieve shades of gray easily.

 

[Booko]

This is a very disappointing thread. Arranged marriages are extremely successful and the truth is, those cultures that practice arranged marriages have the same shock and disbelief about our Western concept as we do for them.

Criticizing arranged marriages is a direct result of one's own ethno-centric and cultural specific influences. It wasn't too long ago that arranged marriages were practiced in Western culture as well. We now "marry for love" and what a wonderful result that's had.:sarcastic

Arranged marriages are forbidden for Baha'is.

But "marrying for love" isn't quite what you'd expect either. We have to have permission from all living parents -- does matter if you're 60 years old -- you need permission.

A Baha'i can try to "marry for love" but the parents do not suffer from infatuation as their child.

In US culture, we seem to think that it's only two individuals who marry. Here's where the cultures that arrange marriages have one up on us -- they know it's two *famililes* that are involved.

 

[Sunstone]

The notion that arranged and forced marriages are more successful seems to rest predominantly on how long they last. But if a couple stays together primarily for economic reasons and because of social pressure, is that success?

Again, if arranged and forced marriages in India are truly based on less superfical factors than marriages in Western societies, then why do so many Indian husbands set fire to their wives when their wives doweries are not forthcoming?

Again, there is a tendency in both Eastern and Western societies to think that the predominant criterion for a good marriage is how long the marriage endures. But is this really so important that it trumps every other value? I have met many unhappy couples who managed to prolong their misery for 20, 30, or even 40 years. Is that success?

Lastly, the notion that a 50% divorce rate is unresonably high needs to be examined. There is a learning curve to everything in life, especially to something as complex as marriage. Given how many things a couple must become competant in to make a marriage work well, I am not surpised that the divorce rate is 50%. Rather, I am surpised that it is not much, much higher.

 

[onmybelief]

Being raised in the United States means that you are exposed to alot of ethnocentrism (meaning: "our way is the best way, there should be no other way of doing it and your way is primitive and backwards.") We really should not judge what we do not understand - we should not judge period. I believe that people have to start to learn to view the world with cultural relativism. What's right in this culture is not necessarily right in another culture and vice versa.

 

[Sunstone]

Do you know of any culture in which murder is right? Again, in what way would the common consequences of arranged and forced marriage change from culture to culture?

 

[standing_alone]

What do you all think about this subject ?

I think arranged marriage is the only way I'll ever have a chance at marriage, just force some poor person into marrying me. (Someone actually wanting to marry me... :biglaugh I'm hopeless... *sigh* Well, I guess I don't have a chance at marriage anyway since some other pesky details about me.

 

[michel]

This is a very disappointing thread. Arranged marriages are extremely successful and the truth is, those cultures that practice arranged marriages have the same shock and disbelief about our Western concept as we do for them.

Criticizing arranged marriages is a direct result of one's own ethno-centric and cultural specific influences. It wasn't too long ago that arranged marriages were practiced in Western culture as well. We now "marry for love" and what a wonderful result that's had.:sarcastic

I am sorry you feel that way; I honestly was giving what I thought was a representatively accurate viewpoint of Forced marriages, and of arranged marriages . There is a difference. Maybe it is those marriages that have been forced on the participants that are the 'painful' ones.

Arranged marriages in Victorian times in England were common too. They were (as I understand it from what I have read) at the best unions of 'convenience' and 'of respect'. Having said that, it was almost expected for the wife and husband to find sexual fulfilment outside of the marriage. As long as that was achieved with the least of publicity, it was recognised, and ignored.

I actually have a personal story about arranged marriages.

Some of my family as some of you will know, is Belgian. My Grandfather was the Patriarch of the family; if ever there were family disputes, the men would gather around a large table and thrash the problem out (and that was still the case in the late 1800's).

My grandfather was called to one such family tradgedy that needed his sage advice.

One of the young cousins (a pretty girl), was betrothed (by arrangement) to the lad on the farm next door. The parents had come to the conclusion that the two families would benefit by the fact that they could then take away the hedges that ran as boundaries between their fields; they could then use a tractor to plough the then one field with ease.

The 'spanner in the works' was that the young lady was very much in love with a lad from a farm a few miles away. No matter how much she pleaded to her parents, they would have nothing to do with changing the arranged marriage. As the date drew near, the young couple became more and more worried that her parents would separate them. She became pregnant on purpose. That was the reason the family was called to the 'Tragedy table'. "What shall we do ?" everyone wailed.............

My grandfather, at the top of the table apparently burst out laughing, to everyone's amazement.............

"It's obvious" he told them, "You are all the ones guilty of making the couple take this drastic way of making sure they could marry each other after all...................the baby being conceived before the marriage is your fault entirely. Now, go bring the couple in, and let's celebrate!!":biglaugh: I loved hearing my father recount that story.........

 

[Sunstone]

I've been wondering what Nutshell's criteria for an "extremely successful" marriage are? By what standards does he judge arranged marriages as extremely successful?

 

[Maxist]

Yes, I myself am in an arranged marridge. There si really nothing wrong with it; forced marridges, however, are terrible.

 

[Bishka]

Yes, I myself am in an arranged marridge. There si really nothing wrong with it; forced marridges, however, are terrible.

You are in an arranged marriage? So are you married then or will be married? I was under the impression you were much younger.

 

[retrorich]

Arranged marriages are fine; forced marriages are not. No one should be forced to marry against his/her will. By the same token, members of the same sex who wish to marry should not be prevented from doing so.