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Are we being framed?

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Are We Being Framed? | JSTOR Daily

Read this article earlier and it got me thinking about the ways we use language to alter our reality and that of others. Never let the media/gov't tell you how to think, or for whom to think.

I agree. A good way to avoid this is for people to learn and understand the nuances of language and semantics. Language can be used to manipulate, mislead, and deceive.

A lot of Americans are actually quite adept at seeing through the tactics of advertisers and snake oil sales pitches. But for whatever reason, people don't apply those same skills to propaganda or political speech, tending to believe politicians who tell them what they want to hear.
 
Never let the media/gov't tell you how to think, or for whom to think.

Only way to avoid that is to avoid the media completely.

Simply being exposed to significant amounts of information means some of it sticks, even if we are hyper-sceptical. We tend to think with the careful application of reason we can self-correct, although this is part of the human conceit that we are far more rational than we actually are.
 

joe1776

Well-Known Member
Only way to avoid that is to avoid the media completely.

Simply being exposed to significant amounts of information means some of it sticks, even if we are hyper-sceptical. We tend to think with the careful application of reason we can self-correct, although this is part of the human conceit that we are far more rational than we actually are.
True. Even when we are well-aware of the confirmation bias and try to keep an open mind it's not easy. Politically, I lean left and the New York times and The Washington Post are my first choices for news. I manage to reject a few of their columns but that's the best I can do.
 

shmogie

Well-Known Member
Are We Being Framed? | JSTOR Daily

Read this article earlier and it got me thinking about the ways we use language to alter our reality and that of others. Never let the media/gov't tell you how to think, or for whom to think.
Interesting article. As one who spent his career in working with the law, as well as having a fairly extensive education in the law, there are some things I need to point out regarding the Mueller report.

It exists in two realities, the legal reality, and the political one. These two realities rarely overlap.

The legal reality, unless perverted, is to find the truth, and act accordingly. Evaluating the truth has well defined rules, the Constitution, laws, and legal codes. These are the measuring stick to determine if the law was broken, it either was, or it was´t, period.

The political reality is an unseemly world of lies, spin, backstabbing and stupidity. Wrongdoing is attributed without fact, or is defended without fact, for political advantage and confusing the people.

The current circus in the House of Representatives is a case in point.

It has been fueled by Mueller himself, who refused to make a legal determination on certain issues, preferring to pass the buck to his superior, Barr. This, in my view was a cowardly act, and Mueller knew he was taking his 2 years of investigation out of the orderly world of the law, where language is precise, and thrusting it into the corrupt world of politics, where language is usually a nuanced lie.

Barr was required by law to give congress a summary of the summary of the report, he did so. Was his summary correct, yes. It was correct because as the Attorney General, his decision and evaluation of the report is the legal one, period. Mueller thrust him into this position by making no legal recommendations one way or another, Like it or not, he did.

At the time of his summary, Barr knew that the full report with required redactions would be released, a step not legally required and rarely if ever taken. Barr saw this as being extremely co operative. Usually, when an investigation concludes no charges will be brought, the investigation documentation is never released.

So, the report is made public, and Nadler knows there is no legal criminal exposure for the President. His hands are tied, Congress cannot initiate criminal charges. He also knows that Barr is investigating why the Mueller investigation began, what was the probable cause for initiation, something Nadler doesn´t want to occur.

So, Nadler begins his assault on Barr, with one purpose, to discredit him so much, that further investigations from his Dept will be hopelessly tainted with alleged bias.

We have now reached the point where the Attorney General was found in contempt of congress because he refused to break the law. It is completely illegal to release grand jury testimony to those not intimately involved in an investigation. That is, investigators from the DOJ.

Nadler subpoenaed material he had no legal right to have, and he knew this, to have an excuse to excoriate Barr.

Yes, we are being set up daily by loose, innacurate information, designed to make his mindless automatons to particular political philosophies. We don´t need to let it happen.

Read this article earlier and it got me thinking about the ways we use language to alter our reality and that of others. Never let the media/gov't tell you how to think, or for whom to think.[/QUOTE]
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
It exists in two realities, the legal reality, and the political one. These two realities rarely overlap.

The legal reality, unless perverted, is to find the truth, and act accordingly. Evaluating the truth has well defined rules, the Constitution, laws, and legal codes. These are the measuring stick to determine if the law was broken, it either was, or it was´t, period.

The political reality is an unseemly world of lies, spin, backstabbing and stupidity. Wrongdoing is attributed without fact, or is defended without fact, for political advantage and confusing the people.

This is an interesting point. I've often seen it in terms of the "legal reality" as being what is presented for public consumption, on the surface. It all sounds so official, logical, reasonable, rational - as if manufactured by a machine rather than any kind of independent human thought.

The "political reality" might be what we perceive behind the scenes - the things the public wouldn't ordinarily know or be privy to - except much later as information slowly "leaks" and trickles out. As a result, there is an inherent mistrust in the system which makes it easy for those in the world of lies, spin, backstabbing, and stupidity, as you point out.
 

The Hammer

[REDACTED]
Premium Member
Interesting article. As one who spent his career in working with the law, as well as having a fairly extensive education in the law, there are some things I need to point out regarding the Mueller report.

It exists in two realities, the legal reality, and the political one. These two realities rarely overlap.

The legal reality, unless perverted, is to find the truth, and act accordingly. Evaluating the truth has well defined rules, the Constitution, laws, and legal codes. These are the measuring stick to determine if the law was broken, it either was, or it was´t, period.

The political reality is an unseemly world of lies, spin, backstabbing and stupidity. Wrongdoing is attributed without fact, or is defended without fact, for political advantage and confusing the people.

The current circus in the House of Representatives is a case in point.

It has been fueled by Mueller himself, who refused to make a legal determination on certain issues, preferring to pass the buck to his superior, Barr. This, in my view was a cowardly act, and Mueller knew he was taking his 2 years of investigation out of the orderly world of the law, where language is precise, and thrusting it into the corrupt world of politics, where language is usually a nuanced lie.

Barr was required by law to give congress a summary of the summary of the report, he did so. Was his summary correct, yes. It was correct because as the Attorney General, his decision and evaluation of the report is the legal one, period. Mueller thrust him into this position by making no legal recommendations one way or another, Like it or not, he did.

At the time of his summary, Barr knew that the full report with required redactions would be released, a step not legally required and rarely if ever taken. Barr saw this as being extremely co operative. Usually, when an investigation concludes no charges will be brought, the investigation documentation is never released.

So, the report is made public, and Nadler knows there is no legal criminal exposure for the President. His hands are tied, Congress cannot initiate criminal charges. He also knows that Barr is investigating why the Mueller investigation began, what was the probable cause for initiation, something Nadler doesn´t want to occur.

So, Nadler begins his assault on Barr, with one purpose, to discredit him so much, that further investigations from his Dept will be hopelessly tainted with alleged bias.

We have now reached the point where the Attorney General was found in contempt of congress because he refused to break the law. It is completely illegal to release grand jury testimony to those not intimately involved in an investigation. That is, investigators from the DOJ.

Nadler subpoenaed material he had no legal right to have, and he knew this, to have an excuse to excoriate Barr.

Yes, we are being set up daily by loose, innacurate information, designed to make his mindless automatons to particular political philosophies. We don´t need to let it happen.

Yes, political and legal reality are two separate ones. One determines truth in black and white terms out of necessity (law), the other obscures the truth into a wash of grey, for the benefit of a few and cooperation of the many (politics).

What I see having happened is Mueller made sure what he gave to Barr was as black and white as he could, but wanted Barr to make that conclusion for himself because Mueller didn't want to be a part of the politics. Trump and other GOP members tried to drag the investigation through the mud, and so Mueller gave the report to Barr to make the final determination, so that it could come from the GOP (attorney general), to hopefully quell some of the dissent already sowed by the media and political personalities.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
That is why I got off of social media, mainly Facebook. And spend most of my days engaging face to face with people. I am also very picky about my news sources.

I personally thought it was rather silly and fictitious to think that people actually got together and had committees on how to control and manipulate people. That was in conspiracy territory. Now I really wonder if that's exactly what goes on in places.
 

The Hammer

[REDACTED]
Premium Member
I personally thought it was rather silly and fictitious to think that people actually got together and had committees on how to control and manipulate people. That was in conspiracy territory. Now I really wonder if that's exactly what goes on in places.

There is some truth in John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word, was with God, and the Word was God.

Words are our reality folks.
 
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