Are there ever any forum discussions about the realities of social issues?

[Jim]

Forums don't really discuss change, in my experience. That conversation is reserved for academics within private groups.

This.....

Academia in my opinion is perhaps the only "true forum" where change can happen.

I don’t think there’s anyone who can’t do anything to help if they want to, and the more help we get the better, if it really helps.

I think that people will learn to use the Internet more and more to learn from each other, and encourage and support each other, in whatever good each person is doing and trying to do. I’ve seen all that happening here, and I think it will continue to happen more and more. Part of that will be helping to bring out the best possibilities in people and in society.

 

[Nakosis]

So, read multiple news sources for multiple points of view. Consult the sources *they* cite. Why would you think a bunch of strangers on the internet giving their opinion (without any proof, or possibly even statement, of their qualifications of knowledge about the issue/situation) is going to make you any more informed about these issues?

Been there, done that. You've heard the story about the blind men and the elephant? Some are not only blind but have an agenda. Often the source quoted doesn't even support the claims. I've been there and have dug deep to get to a truth. Often the truth turns out to be a matter of opinion.

[

Social issues can't change overnight. It's hard to organize with a bunch of who-knows-who from all over the world with different schedules and motivations and abilities and time constraints. Better to get out there and participate in your local world and issues and charities and politics and be the change you wish to see in the world, rather than talking about it with a bunch of people on the internet who aren't in much of a position to help you do anything about it.

I agree, much better to get out there and participate. See what is going on first hand instead of relying on media to make a decision on social issues.

 

[icehorse]

This is mostly just an emotional outburst, but I’m not entirely sure that the answer is no. I don’t think I’ve ever seen any discussion about social issues in any Internet forum, where anyone seems to care about the actual reality of what’s happening in the offline world around them. It all looks like strictly a roleplaying game to me, a mockery of formal debating where each person makes their own rules and keeps their own score, but one rule everyone seems to agree on is not to inform themselves about the reality of anything they’re debating about. One possible explanation I can think of is that there are better ways for people who are actually trying to help solve the problems, to get ideas and encouragement from each other, which could be why I never see that happening in Internet forums. Maybe Internet forums are strictly for social interaction, and bringing reality into the debating would spoil the RPG.

Ok, having read the OP again, perhaps I'm understanding your question better. (But I might not have this right, so bear with me.)

I spend some of my time on this forum for a few reasons:

1 - I DO want to understand some issues better. I think debate can be a good way to understand issues better, and I have learned valuable things from the debates I've had on this forum.

2 - I think conversation and debating are valuable skills, and I think I've learned some debating and conversational skills while on this forum.

3 - As my tagline indicates, I think we are making a positive change in the world when we call things by their proper names. For me, a common reason to debate on this forum is to try to reveal the proper names of contentious issues. For example, I think that the real issue in US politics these days isn't GOP vs. Dem or liberals vs. conservatives. I think the REAL issue is the impact that Oligarchs are having on our democracy. So to me, the "real name" for our political issues is "oligarchy". And I think that if more people knew that, and used the term, we'd be starting down the path of real social change.

 

[Jim]

I think debate can be a good way to understand issues better ...

I agree, but I’ve been learning some ways that work better for me.

I think conversation and debating are valuable skills, and I think I've learned some debating and conversational skills while on this forum.

Me too.

As my tagline indicates, I think we are making a positive change in the world when we call things by their proper names.

I don’t think that using the right labels is enough in itself. In fact, some ways of using them can even make things worse, and often do. Most of the time, my purpose in discussions is to communicate with the people I’m talking to.

For me, a common reason to debate on this forum is to try to reveal the proper names of contentious issues. For example, I think that the real issue in US politics these days isn't GOP vs. Dem or liberals vs. conservatives. I think the REAL issue is the impact that Oligarchs are having on our democracy. So to me, the "real name" for our political issues is "oligarchy". And I think that if more people knew that, and used the term, we'd be starting down the path of real social change.

The way I’m thinking of it for now is that the world’s human and natural resources have been mostly appropriated for a global monopoly game. Its leading players might correspond roughly to your oligarchy. I called it that myself, for a while. I think I was undecided between “oligarchy” and “plutocracy.”

 

[icehorse]

@Jim i'd be fine saying plutocracy/

 

[Jim]

((Now I’m seeing debating in Internet forums as a kind of MMORPG, which means that I’ve been breaking a rule of etiquette by not marking my posts as “OOC,” when I’m talking about the world of experience outside of the RPG. Possibly I’m the only person in the world who sees any possible value in getting ideas and encouragement from each other in Internet forums, for the community service that we’re doing and hoping to do offline. Of course there might better ways of doing that on the Internet, but I don’t see any reason not to also do it in Internet forums, and I still think that it will happen more and more. I do see it happening here, even if people aren’t thinking of it that way. I would like to be part of it. For now I’m trying to wean myself away from online forums, but I might come back to it some day, although I think my online priority will be social networks.))

 

[Jim]

@Jim i'd be fine saying plutocracy/

((It does me a lot of good to find the right words, for me, for what I’m seeing, but for my purposes I see no need any more to try to convince anyone else to think of it that way. I do see some value though, in using those words occasionally in my conversations in public, to help me find other people who are seeing what I’m seeing, like what might have happened between you and me. That’s nice to see sometimes.))

 

[Jim]

@icehorse ((Like I’m doing now, calling online debating an MMORPG, and talking about what I see as stubborn willful ignorance about the truth or reality in the world outside of the RPG, of what people are saying inside of it. I see now that instead of being ignorance, it might simply be respecting the RP. It might help me to think of it that way, anyway.))

 

[icehorse]

@icehorse ((Like I’m doing now, calling online debating an MMORPG, and talking about what I see as stubborn willful ignorance about the truth or reality in the world outside of the RPG, of what people are saying inside of it. I see now that instead of being ignorance, it might simply be respecting the RP. It might help me to think of it that way, anyway.))

I think the online-game analogy has some merit. But even within games, a person can play with integrity or not. As for ignorance, I think a lot of it is not willful.

 

[Michelle71]

((Now I’m seeing debating in Internet forums as a kind of MMORPG, which means that I’ve been breaking a rule of etiquette by not marking my posts as “OOC,” when I’m talking about the world of experience outside of the RPG. Possibly I’m the only person in the world who sees any possible value in getting ideas and encouragement from each other in Internet forums, for the community service that we’re doing and hoping to do offline. Of course there might better ways of doing that on the Internet, but I don’t see any reason not to also do it in Internet forums, and I still think that it will happen more and more. I do see it happening here, even if people aren’t thinking of it that way. I would like to be part of it. For now I’m trying to wean myself away from online forums, but I might come back to it some day, although I think my online priority will be social networks.))

"...debating in Internet forums as a kind of MMORPG" - this is backed up by the latest research. What I see in academics is that they are a group outside of the internet that converge with each other through the internet, much like what was once done by phone. If there is something to be done, I think growing a group within the physical world is the only genuine way to get anything done. That's what we've done for, well, ever. We are social creatures. The internet, for all its appearances to the contrary is asocial. To get anything done, you have to look someone in the eye.

 

[Jim]

@icehorse I posted some more thoughts here about using calling things by their right names.