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Are Non-Jews...
- Thread starter Nakosis
- Start date
I doubt it..
As I've stated countless times on this site, non-Jewish citizens are treated equally in the eyes of the law. In fact, in some places you may find affirmative action in favor of minorities (e.g. Arabs have an easier time getting accepted into med school than Jews). Equality for non-Jews was put forward in the Israeli Declaration of Independence and the country has held firm on that.
You might make the argument that some individuals or social circles are more biased toward minorities, but that doesn't make Israel different from any other country in the world.
You might make the argument that some individuals or social circles are more biased toward minorities, but that doesn't make Israel different from any other country in the world.
in the eyes of the law.
Nice qualifier. I guess the question would be how far discrimination can occur without it being a criminal offense?
I don't live there so I certainly don't know. However here is a report from the state dept.
However, the Government does not provide Israeli Arabs, who constitute approximately 20 percent of the population, with the same quality of education, housing, employment, and social services as Jews. In addition, government spending is proportionally far lower in predominantly Arab areas than in Jewish areas; on a per capita basis, the Government spends two-thirds as much for Arabs as for Jews. Although such policies are based on a variety of factors, they reflect de facto discrimination against the country's non-Jewish citizens.
I suppose mainly the question concerns is if there is actual equality in Israel, why are Gaza and the West Bank necessary?
Note my second paragraph. Know of a country that doesn't have grey areas?
What do you mean by "necessary"?
Yes, that is the reality.
How this affects Israel?
In October 2000, Israeli Arabs held a number of demonstrations in the north to protest against discriminatory governmental policies and the Israeli Defense Force's use of excessive force to disperse Palestinian demonstrators in the occupied territories. Police used rubber bullets and live ammunition to disperse demonstrators, killing 13 Arab citizens and injuring over 300. These events, which coincided with the beginning of the Intifada in the occupied territories and renewed tension on the country's northern border, significantly harmed Jewish-Arab relations in the country. (same source)
Old news but people have long memories.
Why not have one government that treats all of Palestine equally?
No.
Palestine ≠ Israel.
The world has our hands tied on this. I'll try to summarize the topic.
In 1947 the UN okayed the partition plan which gave some of Mandatory Palestine to the Jewish population and most of it to the Arab population. The Jews took the deal, the Arabs didn't and declared war. The Jews declared independence in 1948 well into the war, eventually defeating the various Arab countries that attacked them in 1949. As part of the surrender treaty, the area of formerly Mandatory Palestine was once again divided: Egypt got what would ever since be known as the Gaza Strip, Jordan got Judea and Samaria and East Jerusalem, and Israel got the rest. The new division was more or less based on the areas conquered by each country during the war. The Arabs of formerly Mandatory Palestine were split between the three countries. Some sided with Israel and became full legal citizens with equal rights. The rest fell under the jurisdiction of Jordan and Egypt and largely did not receive equal rights.
Fast-forward 19 years, came the 1967 Six-Day War, Israel conquered Gaza, Judea, Samaria, Sinai and the Golan, nearly tripling in size. Here's where it really gets complicated. The US and other countries pressured Israel against announcing sovereignty over these areas, and particularly Gaza, Judea and Samaria. Usually when a country conquers land during war, that land becomes part of the country. However, since Egypt and Jordan had retreated from those areas during the war, Israel still controlled them for all intents and purposes. But since no sovereign nation declared rule over them, they became legally grey areas. So the law of the land became Israeli law, but the Arabs of those areas did not receive full Israeli citizenship.
In hopes of bringing about Israeli sovereignty to areas that are historically part of the Land of Israel, Israeli Jews started building towns and cities in these areas, as well as in Sinai and the Golan.
Fast-forward again, the Oslo Accords were signed in the 90s, which formed the Palestinian Authority. As part of the Accords, Israel supplied the PA Arabs with weapons to be able to police themselves. Almost promptly they used those weapons against Israel, starting the Second Intifada. This led to Operation Defensive Shield in 2002, which was intended to disarm the PA Arabs and was highly successful. The Accords also brought about a threefold division of Judea, Samaria and Gaza, into Area A, Area B and Area C. A is policed by the PA, B by joint Israeli-PA forces, and C only by Israel. No Israeli Jews live in Area A.
In 2005 the Israeli government decided to preemptively hand over Gaza to the local Arabs, and removed the Jewish citizens from the strip (against their will). This brought about the only elections in the Gaza Strip, which brought Hamas to power. And that pretty much brings us to the present day.
So, in short: Gaza, Judea and Samaria Arabs had iffy rights under Egypt and Jordan, then had iffy rights because of international pressure, until the Oslo Accords, then had and have zero rights under the non-democratic PA and Hamas. And there you have it.
There are also some internal politics at play, as successive Israeli government have been against announcing sovereign rule over these areas, but haven't completely withdrawn from Judea and Samaria.
Are you starting from the assumption that Jews are treated equally in Israel?
See: Intra-Jewish Racism
Not really starting with any assumptions.
It seems nobody wants responsibility for these areas or is it that the Arab nations + the US puts political pressure on Israel to not take responsibility for these areas?
However this allows Iran to continue it's proxy war against Israel.
Both and more: Israelis themselves are divided on the topic of sovereignty, and if sovereignty, should the Arabs receive citizenship or just residency? As stated previously, it doesn't really matter as long as the Israeli government isn't willing to budge. Meanwhile, yes, and not just Arabs and Americans, but many members of the UN and the UN itself.
Yep.
It's terrible the situation the world has setup in the Middle East.
Out of curiosity, how do you feel about the relationship between the US and Iran?
I think that the US policy towards Iran just pushes off the inevitable, and will be harmful to the US (never mind the rest of the world) in the long run (which at this point is the fairly near future). IMO the US should put a stop to Iran's nuclearization ASAP. Bomb the oil factories, etc. On and off sanctions clearly aren't doing much of anything.
Also, this report, if true, is infuriating to me as an Israeli:
Again, if true, that means that the US favored an enemy and a threat over a long-time ally, and was willing to spend (essentially waste) millions if not billions of dollars to shoot down the drones and rockets. Israel and other countries who also shot down the armaments also wasted a lot of money.
Dangerously stupid.
The US seems to not have a problem spending billions to interfere in foreign affairs.
However this kind of implies the US strategically planned with Iran via Turkey the attack on Israel?
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Not exactly. The Iranians wanted to retaliate for Israel killing one of their top generals, but they also wanted to make sure that their attack wouldn't bring an extreme reaction from the US. So they essentially asked the US (via a third party, Turkey), if they could go ahead with the attack. And the US gave them permission!
Still seems to contradict Biden's claim of Ironclad support for Israel.
Agreed, and while perhaps one of the most drastic steps, it's not the only one.
We Never Know
No Slack
"So they essentially asked the US (via a third party, Turkey), if they could go ahead with the attack. And the US gave them permission!"
Do you have a citation of that? If the US gave them permission why are they going to sanction Iran?
"WASHINGTON, April 16 (Reuters) - U.S. Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen on Tuesday warned that the U.S. intends to hit Iran with new sanctions in coming days over its unprecedented attack on Israel"
Edit.... Found it in post #14. The US said that any action Iran took had to be "within certain limits".
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