Apostate, Stoning, Banu Quraiza Misconceptions.

[benign6]

I wanted to address three of mis-understandings regarding Islam.
My POV goes against many muslim so-called scholars, I've provided proof for my POV. It's upto ppl what they think is more logical. One must keep in mind that Islam is based on Quran & Sunnah of Prophet Muhammad & NOT on interpretations or mis-interpretations of any other.
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Islam does NOT allow killing of Apostates:-
Those who advocate killing of Apostate(Renegade) mis-interpret Ahadees & don't under stand the context.


Prophet Muhammad NEVER killed Apostate because of his leaving-Islam BUT because after leaving Islam he KILLED Muslims or Faught wars against muslims.


If an Apostate didn't kill muslims or faught against muslims then Prophet Muhammad NEVER ordered to kill such. As in following Ahadees Prophet didn't order to kill Apostates:-

Bukhari:56:814:-
There was a Christian who embraced Islam and read Surat-al-Baqara and Al-Imran, and he used to write (the revelations) for the Prophet. Later on he returned to Christianity again and he used to say: "Muhammad knows nothing but what I have written for him." Then Allah caused him to die(So he died his natural death & was not killed for his apostacy), and the people buried him, but in the morning they saw that the earth had thrown his body out.............

Bukhari:17:133:-
...........When the famine was taken off, the people renegade once again as non-believers. .......... "Allah's Apostle prayed for them and it rained heavily for seven days. So the people complained of the excessive rain. The Prophet said, 'O Allah! (Let it rain) around us and not on us.' So the clouds dispersed over his head and it rained over the surroundings."(Here again Prophet didn't order to kill these Apostates)
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Now i come to incidences where killing of apostates is mentioned. In all such incidences apostates were involved in killing muslims.

Bukhari:55:558:-
......... and they will renegade from the religion as an arrow goes through the game's body. They will kill the Muslims but will not disturb the idolaters. If I should live up to their time' I will kill them as the people of 'Ad were killed (i.e. I will kill all of them)."

Bukhari:82:794:-
Narated By Anas : Some people from the tribe of 'Ukl came to the Prophet and embraced Islam. The climate of Medina did not suit them, so the Prophet ordered them to go to the (herd of milch) camels of charity and to drink, their milk and urine (as a medicine). They did so, and after they had recovered from their ailment (became healthy) they turned renegades (reverted from Islam) and killed the shepherd of the camels and took the camels away. The Prophet sent (some people) in their pursuit and so they were (caught and) brought, and the Prophets ordered that their hands and legs should be cut off and that their eyes should be branded with heated pieces of iron, and that their cut hands and legs should not be cauterised, till they die.

(same incidence as above)Bukhari:83:37:-
....(Long Hadith).......They deserted Islam, committed murder and theft......




So apostates were killed coz they committed MURDER, not because the left Islam. But many muslims still don't understand.

 

[benign6]

Stoning law was CANCELLED & is no longer applicable:-
Stoning was punishment for adultory in previous scriptures.
Bible. Deut:22:21 Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: :...22:22 If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, then they shall both of them die, both the man that lay with the woman, and the woman: so shalt thou put away evil from Israel....22:24 Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die;

Islam had same punishment for married person(adultory) for a period of time BUT finally punishment was changed to 100 lashes for both married & un-married.

Here r few points i would like to put to prove my point:-
<1>
One way of changing some law is by stating it clearly to prophet.
Another way of changing some law is that God removes that law from memory of prophet & others.
[Quran:2:106]"None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that God Hath power over all things?"
[87:6]"By degrees shall We teach thee to declare (the Message), so thou shalt not forget,[7] Except as God wills: For He knoweth what is manifest and what is hidden."

So verses about stoning were removed from memory of all as evident in next point.

<2>
Umar(ra) & other once remembered verses on stoning by-heart BUT all of them were made to forget them(c.f.Quran:2:106) that's why no such verse is seen in Qur'an.
Despite recalling that he memorised that verse Umar(ra) is un-able to recall the exact verse.

Bukhari:82:817:-
...Allah sent Muhammad with the Truth and revealed the Holy Book to him, and among what Allah revealed, was the Verse of the Rajam (the stoning of married person (male & female) who commits illegal sexual intercourse, and we did recite this Verse and understood and memorized it. Allah's Apostle did carry out the punishment of stoning and so did we after him..... And then we used to recite among the Verses in Allah's Book:....


<3>
Some Companions of Prophet Muhammad(saww) were of the point that Prophet gave stoning punishments BEFORE surah-al-Noor:-
Bukhari:82:824:-
I asked 'Abdullah bin Abi 'Aufa about the Rajam (stoning somebody to death for committing illegal sexual intercourse). He replied, "The Prophet carried out the penalty of Rajam," I asked, "Was that before or after the revelation of Surat-an-Nur?" He replied, "I do not know."


<4>
Law regarding adultory went through changes like Prophet gave 100lashes+EXILE to un-married WHILE Qura'n doesn't mention EXILE in 24:2:-

Bukhari:48:817:-
Allah's Apostle ordered that an unmarried man who committed illegal sexual intercourse be scourged one hundred lashes and sent into exile for one year.

<5>
Another example of such change in laws was that initially 4 witnesses were required even if SPOUSE alleges other spouse.
But later SPOUSE was given more reliability as in Qura'n:24:6-7.


This story of change in rules in in this Hadees:
Bukhari:60:271:-
Hilal bin Umaiya accused his wife of committing illegal sexual intercourse with Sharik bin Sahma' and filed the case before the Prophet. The Prophet said (to Hilal), "Either you bring forth a proof (four witnesses) or you will receive the legal punishment (lashes) on your back." Hilal said, "O Allah's Apostle! If anyone of us saw a man over his wife, would he go to seek after witnesses?" The Prophet kept on saying, "Either you bring forth the witnesses or you will receive the legal punishment (lashes) on your back." Hilal then said, "By Him Who sent you with the Truth, I am telling the truth and Allah will reveal to you what will save my back from legal punishment." Then Gabriel came down and revealed to him:

'As for those who accuse their wives...' (24.6-9) The Prophet recited it till he reached: '...(her accuser) is telling the truth.' Then the Prophet left and sent for the woman, and Hilal went (and brought) her and then took the oaths (confirming the claim). The Prophet was saying, "Allah knows that one of you is a liar, so will any of you repent?" Then the woman got up and took the oaths and when she was going to take the fifth one, the people stopped her and said, "It (the fifth oath) will definitely bring Allah's curse on you (if you are guilty)." So she hesitated and recoiled (from taking the oath) so much that we thought that she would withdraw her denial. But then she said, "I will not dishonour my family all through these days," and carried on (the process of taking oaths). The Prophet then said, "Watch her; if she delivers a black-eyed child with big hips and fat shins then it is Sharik bin Sahma's child." Later she delivered a child of that description. So the Prophet said, "If the case was not settled by Allah's Law, I would punish her severely."


<6>
(I don't remember reference # for following hadees)
Once Prophet asked a man how he'd solve an issue, he replied he'll seek guidence from Qur'an.
Prophet asked IF he didn't find sulotion in Qur'an THEN???, he replied he'll seek guidence from Sunnah(Deeds of Prophet).
Prophet asked even IF he didn't find solution in sunnah THEN.
He replied he'll decide HIMSELF in light of Qur'an & Sunnah & Prophet praised him.


So here's the sequence for us to follow:-
Qur'an>>If Quran doesn't offer answer, ONLY THEN>>Sunnah>>If sunnah doesn't offer answer, ONLY THEN>>>Own Decision in light of Quran & Sunnah.

So when Quran says punishment for adultory is 100 lashes we got our answer. There's no need to go any further.


<7>
Punishment for slave for commiting shameful act is half that for free person:-
[4:25]..... if they fall into shame, their(slaves') punishment is half that for free women......

If someone advocates stoning for adultory HOW would you calculate HALF of stoning to death????
100 Lashes can be divided into HALF easily. i.e, 50 lashes.

Verse cancelled = stoning cancelled.

To summarize:-
*Punishment for now, for extramarital sex is 100 lashes, whether culprit is married or un-married.(Q:24:2)(In a Hadees a very gaunt & lean & sick fornicator was punished by hitting him ONCE with a BROOM of 100 bristles instead of 100 lashes; This show how flexible can we be depending on circumstances.)
This punishment has been made practically very difficult at least in Muslim Land, by setting condition of 4 male EYE(Bukhari:83:37)-witnesses & accuser(s) obviously cannot act as witness him-herself. In West open fornication is common but Islamic laws don't apply there so practically such punishment is rarely seen.
*Punishment for WRONGLY accusingsomeone of adultory is 80 lashes PLUS not accepting them as witness afterwards.(Q:24:4)
*Punishment for homosexual femalesis to bound them to home forever OR till someone ask their hand in marriage.(Q:4:15). Point to be noted is that such punishment for female homosexuals has been made practically very difficult by setting condition of 4 male witnesses which accuser will have to present. Accuser obviously can't act as a witness himself/herself. So that would be impossible atleast in a Muslim land where such things r not done openly as in West.
*Punishment for homosexual males is to torture them(amount & type of torture has been left for lawmakers to decide).(Q:4:16).

 

[benign6]

Banu Quraiza killed for fighting against muslims breaking the treaty:
Banu Quraiza(Qurayzah) broke treaty with Muslims twice(Bukhari:59:362). So they were punishable for breaking treaty & helping enemies of Muslims, by Quranic law(Quran:9:3-4). Immunity was only for those who had treaty & didn't break it(Quran:9:1).


First time Prophet(saww) exiled Bani-al-Nadir for breaking treaty but left Bani Quraiza & gave them a chance/favour(Muslim:19:4364). But this treacherous group faught against Muslims AGAIN.


So after Trench War Prophet besieged Bani Quraiza as per order of Gabriel(Bukhari:52:68) & as per Quran:9:13.
After 25 days of siege Banu Quraiza agreed to surrender on the condition set by themselves that they'll accept verdict of Sad bin Muadh(Muslim:19:4368, & Bukhari:58:148, 59:447, 74:278). So Prophet(saww) sent for Sad & when Sad came he gave the verdict to kill their warriors(who had betrayed twice before) & make captive women & children of Banu Quraiza.


Some of Bani Quraiza asked for asylum & they were granted safty(Bukhari:59:362) as per Quran:9:6. Rest of them didn't asked for asylum so they were executed as per Sad's verdict which B.Quraiza agreed to accept themselves.



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Bukhari:59:362:-
Narated By Ibn Umar : Bani An-Nadir and Bani Quraiza fought (against the Prophet violating their peace treaty), so the Prophet exiled Bani An-Nadir and allowed Bani Quraiza to remain at their places (in Medina) taking nothing from them till they fought against the Prophet again). He then killed their men and distributed their women, children and property among the Muslims, but some of them came to the Prophet and he granted them safety, and they embraced Islam. He exiled all the Jews from Medina. They were the Jews of Bani Qainuqa', the tribe of 'Abdullah bin Salam and the Jews of Bani Haritha and all the other Jews of Medina.

Bukhari:52:68:-
Narated By 'Aisha : When Allah's Apostle returned on the day (of the battle) of Al-Khandaq (i.e. Trench), he put down his arms and took a bath. Then Gabriel whose head was covered with dust, came to him saying, "You have put down your arms! By Allah, I have not put down my arms yet." Allah's Apostle said, "Where (to go now)?" Gabriel said, "This way," pointing towards the tribe of Bani Quraiza. So Allah's Apostle went out towards them.

Muslim:19:4364:-
It has been narrated on the authority of Ibn Umar that the Jews of Banu Nadir and Banu Quraizi fought against the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) who expelled Banu Nadir, and allowed Quraiza to stay on, and granted favour to them until they too fought against him Then he killed their men, and distributed their women, children and properties among the Muslims, except that some of them had joined the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) who granted them security. They embraced Islam. The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) turned out all the Jews of Medlina. Banu Qainuqa' (the tribe of 'Abdullah b. Salim) and the Jews of Banu Haritha and every other Jew who was in Medina.

Muslim:19:4368:-
It has been narrated on the authority of Abu Sa'id al-Khudri who said: The people of Quraiza surrendered accepting the decision of Sa'd b. Mu'adh about them. Accordingly, the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) sent for Sa'd who came to him riding a donkey. When he approached the mosque, the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said to the Ansar: Stand up to receive your chieftain. Then he said (to Sa'd): These people have surrendered accepting your decision. He (Sa'd) said: You will kill their fighters and capture their women and children. (Hearing this), the Prophet (may peace he upon him) said: You have adjudged by the command of God. The narrator is reported to have said: Perhaps he said: You have adjudged by the decision of a king.
Ibn Muthanna (in his version of the tradition) has not mentioned the alternative words.

[Quran:9:[1] A (declaration) of immunity from God and His Apostle, to those of the Mushrikeen with whom ye have contracted mutual alliances:-[2] Go ye, then, for four months, backwards and forwards, (as ye will), throughout the land, but know ye that ye cannot frustrate God (by your falsehood) but that God will cover with shame those who reject Him.[3] And an announcement from God and His Apostle, to the people (assembled) on the day of the Great Pilgrimage,- that God and His Apostle dissolve (treaty) obligations with the Pagans. If then, ye repent, it were best for you; but if ye turn away, know ye that ye cannot frustrate God. And proclaim a grievous penalty to those who reject Faith.[4] (But the treaties are) not dissolved with those Pagans with whom ye have entered into alliance and who have not subsequently failed you in aught, nor aided any one against you. So fulfil your engagements with them to the end of their term: for God loveth the righteous.[5] But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.[6] If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of God; and then escort him to where he can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge.

 

[Popeyesays]

The Banu Qurayzah were Jews and never became Muslim. They entered into treaties and broke them. THeir punishment was for breaking treaty NOT for being apostate Muslims. They had never been Muslim.

Regards,
Scott

 

[benign6]

The Banu Qurayzah were Jews and never became Muslim. They entered into treaties and broke them. THeir punishment was for breaking treaty NOT for being apostate Muslims. They had never been Muslim.

Regards,
Scott

That's right.
I wrote about them coz many ppl say they were killed unjustly.

My post about apostate is not related to Banu Quraiza. That's different topic to dispel mis-understanding that "Islam order to kill Apostates".

 

[kai]

I wanted to address three of mis-understandings regarding Islam.
My POV goes against many muslim so-called scholars, I've provided proof for my POV. It's upto ppl what they think is more logical. One must keep in mind that Islam is based on Quran & Sunnah of Prophet Muhammad & NOT on interpretations or mis-interpretations of any other.
=============================
Islam does NOT allow killing of Apostates:-
Those who advocate killing of Apostate(Renegade) mis-interpret Ahadees & don't under stand the context.


Prophet Muhammad NEVER killed Apostate because of his leaving-Islam BUT because after leaving Islam he KILLED Muslims or Faught wars against muslims.


If an Apostate didn't kill muslims or faught against muslims then Prophet Muhammad NEVER ordered to kill such. As in following Ahadees Prophet didn't order to kill Apostates:-

Bukhari:56:814:-
There was a Christian who embraced Islam and read Surat-al-Baqara and Al-Imran, and he used to write (the revelations) for the Prophet. Later on he returned to Christianity again and he used to say: "Muhammad knows nothing but what I have written for him." Then Allah caused him to die(So he died his natural death & was not killed for his apostacy), and the people buried him, but in the morning they saw that the earth had thrown his body out.............

Bukhari:17:133:-
...........When the famine was taken off, the people renegade once again as non-believers. .......... "Allah's Apostle prayed for them and it rained heavily for seven days. So the people complained of the excessive rain. The Prophet said, 'O Allah! (Let it rain) around us and not on us.' So the clouds dispersed over his head and it rained over the surroundings."(Here again Prophet didn't order to kill these Apostates)
----- -
------
-------

Now i come to incidences where killing of apostates is mentioned. In all such incidences apostates were involved in killing muslims.

Bukhari:55:558:-
......... and they will renegade from the religion as an arrow goes through the game's body. They will kill the Muslims but will not disturb the idolaters. If I should live up to their time' I will kill them as the people of 'Ad were killed (i.e. I will kill all of them)."

Bukhari:82:794:-
Narated By Anas : Some people from the tribe of 'Ukl came to the Prophet and embraced Islam. The climate of Medina did not suit them, so the Prophet ordered them to go to the (herd of milch) camels of charity and to drink, their milk and urine (as a medicine). They did so, and after they had recovered from their ailment (became healthy) they turned renegades (reverted from Islam) and killed the shepherd of the camels and took the camels away. The Prophet sent (some people) in their pursuit and so they were (caught and) brought, and the Prophets ordered that their hands and legs should be cut off and that their eyes should be branded with heated pieces of iron, and that their cut hands and legs should not be cauterised, till they die.

(same incidence as above)Bukhari:83:37:-
....(Long Hadith).......They deserted Islam, committed murder and theft......




So apostates were killed coz they committed MURDER, not because the left Islam. But many muslims still don't understand.

good post but wheres the bit about apostates?