Apostasy

[may]

Ummm, I don't think so, Apostasy is a part of all the Abrahamic Religions. I think it even existed in Judaism prior to the birth of Christ. It may even be limited to the followers of Yahweh, Jehovah and Allah exclusively.

Does anyone know the origin of the concept of Apostasy and if any non-Abrahamic religions use the term or have a similar one?

An apostasy among professed Christians was foretold by the apostle Paul at 2 Thessalonians 2:3. He specifically mentioned certain apostates, such as Hymenaeus, Alexander, and Philetus. (1Ti 1:19, 20; 2Ti 2:16-19) Among the varied causes of apostasy set forth in apostolic warnings were: lack of faith (Heb 3:12), lack of endurance in the face of persecution (Heb 10:32-39), abandonment of right moral standards (2Pe 2:15-22), the heeding of the "counterfeit words" of false teachers and "misleading inspired utterances" (2Pe 2:1-3; 1Ti 4:1-3; 2Ti 2:16-19; compare Pr 11:9), and trying "to be declared righteous by means of law" (Ga 5:2-4). While still making profession of faith in God’s Word, apostates may forsake his service by treating lightly the preaching and teaching work that he assigned to followers of Jesus Christ. (Lu 6:46; Mt 24:14; 28:19, 20) They may also claim to serve God but reject his representatives, his visible organization, and then turn to ‘beating’ their former associates to hinder their work. (Jude 8, 11; Nu 16:19-21; Mt 24:45-51) Apostates often seek to make others their followers. (Ac 20:30; 2Pe 2:1, 3) Such ones willfully abandoning the Christian congregation thereby become part of the "antichrist." (1Jo 2:18, 19) As with the apostate Israelites, destruction is likewise foretold for apostates from the Christian congregation.—2Pe 2:1; Heb 6:4-8;

 

[joeboonda]

That's a vary strange definition of apostacy, Joeboonda. You're saying that all non Christians are apostates.

While most consider apostasy as a person once believing something then turning away, in a sense, all non Christians are apostates, let me explain myself, first examine this verse:

Hebrews 10:38-39 (King James Version)

38Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
39But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

Side note: (You have to look at the scriptures I put in my previous post to get a fuller understanding of apostasy, but that is not exactly my goal here.)

Ok, now Look at the above verses: it says that the just, or justified, that is "just as if I'd" never sinned people who by faith have believed in Christ for the free gift of salvation, live by faith, that is they BELIEVE. What do they believe? Jesus' words, which shall condemn or save a person at the Judgement:

John 12:48
He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

And what were these word that shall judge us?:

John 3:16,18 (Jesus' own words)
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned alreadybecause he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.


Now, looking at the verses from Hebrews, it says we are NOT of them that draw back unto perdition, but of them that BELIEVE to the saving of the soul.

So, I ask, have folks heard or read Jesus' words? (they just read them), have folks 'drawn back' in unbelief, they have not believed? Then according to Jesus' own words, that would make them 'condemned already', and in a very real sense, apostates, and Jesus' words will judge them at the judgement. His words are that if folks believe IN HIM they have eternal life, and if folks do not believe, they are condemned already, BECAUSE they have not believed. They die in their sins, not believing Jesus' words and not accepting Jesus' payment for all their sins, they must pay for them themselves in Hell, forever.

 

[wizanda]

Rev 2:14-15
(14) But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.
(15) So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the (gospel of John) Nicolaitans, which thing I hate.

Mic 6:5-7
(5) O my people, remember now what Balak king of Moab consulted, and what Balaam the son of Beor answered him from ****tim unto Gilgal; that ye may know the righteousness of the LORD.
(6) Wherewith shall I come before the LORD, and bow myself before the high God? shall I come before him with burnt offerings, with calves of a year old?
(7) Will the LORD be pleased with thousands of rams, or with ten thousands of rivers of oil? shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?

Luk 18:18-22
(18) And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
(19) And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.
(20) Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.
(21) And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up.
(22) Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.

Mar 7:11-13
(11) But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is an Offering (Corban), that is to say, a sacrifice (gift), by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; (he shall be free)?.
(12) And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
(13) Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Luk 17:9-10
(9) Doth he Grace (thank) that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I trow not.
(10) So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.

Luk 6:32-35
(32) For if ye love them which love you, what Grace (thank) have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.
(33) And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what Grace (thank) have ye? for sinners also do even the same.
(34) And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what Grace (thank) have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.
(35) But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is Gracious (kind) unto the unthankful and to the evil.

 

[may]

While most consider apostasy as a person once believing something then turning away, in a sense, all non Christians are apostates, let me explain myself, first examine this verse:

Hebrews 10:38-39 (King James Version)

38Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
39But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

Side note: (You have to look at the scriptures I put in my previous post to get a fuller understanding of apostasy, but that is not exactly my goal here.)

Ok, now Look at the above verses: it says that the just, or justified, that is "just as if I'd" never sinned people who by faith have believed in Christ for the free gift of salvation, live by faith, that is they BELIEVE. What do they believe? Jesus' words, which shall condemn or save a person at the Judgement:

John 12:48
He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

And what were these word that shall judge us?:

John 3:16,18 (Jesus' own words)
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned alreadybecause he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.


Now, looking at the verses from Hebrews, it says we are NOT of them that draw back unto perdition, but of them that BELIEVE to the saving of the soul.

So, I ask, have folks heard or read Jesus' words? (they just read them), have folks 'drawn back' in unbelief, they have not believed? Then according to Jesus' own words, that would make them 'condemned already', and in a very real sense, apostates, and Jesus' words will judge them at the judgement. His words are that if folks believe IN HIM they have eternal life, and if folks do not believe, they are condemned already, BECAUSE they have not believed. They die in their sins, not believing Jesus' words and not accepting Jesus' payment for all their sins, they must pay for them themselves in Hell, forever.

and in this the last days Jesus is directing his channel that he is giving great blessings too matthew 24;45-47 He is directing and feeding this channel so if a person who once fed from this channel rejects this channel ,and even starts to verbally abuse and beat up this channel that Jesus is feeding and directing, he would be rejecting Jesus himself and he would become an apostate .

 

[Valjean]

If someone is a non-Christian, and he then hears and accepts the Gospel of Jesus, he is then an apostate -- unless he was an atheist to begin with and, thus, did not convert from or reject anything.

 

[joeboonda]

and in this the last days Jesus is directing his channel that he is giving great blessings too matthew 24;45-47 He is directing and feeding this channel so if a person who once fed from this channel rejects this channel ,and even starts to verbally abuse and beat up this channel that Jesus is feeding and directing, he would be rejecting Jesus himself and he would become an apostate .

I don't think an individual can become an apostate, for if they have truly trusted Jesus for salvation, the Bible says:

John 10:29
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Anyone the Father gave to Jesus is secure in His hand even if they doubt and waiver in their faith later on, God holds on to us, we do not hold on to Him, and nothing can take us out of His hand, for He is greater than all, including ourselves. Apostasy can creep into a church through false teaching and false doctrine and it can become an apostate church, however even within a corrupt church despite the corrupt doctrines, people still find Christ. The key is to stay in the Word.

 

[may]

If someone is a non-Christian, and he then hears and accepts the Gospel of Jesus, he is then an apostate -- unless he was an atheist to begin with and, thus, did not convert from or reject anything.

according to the bible he would become a disciple , and he would then teach others what was taught to him .
And Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: "All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples
Or, "make learners." Gr., ma·the·teu´sa·te.
of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded YOU. And, look! I am with YOU all the days until the conclusion of the system of things." matthew 28;19-20

 

[may]

I don't think an individual can become an apostate, for if they have truly trusted Jesus for salvation,

quote] a little leaven is all it needs , it starts with one but then when others listen and take on board the things that individual says it spreads like gangrene .
By [his] mouth the one who is an apostate brings his fellowman to ruin, but by knowledge are the righteous rescued..... proverbs 11;9
(Galatians 4:17) They zealously seek YOU, not in a fine way, but they want to shut YOU off [from me], that YOU may zealously seek them.

(1 Timothy 4:1) However, the inspired utterance says definitely that in later periods of time some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired utterances and teachings of demons,
​

(1 John 2:19) They went out from us, but they were not of our sort; for if they had been of our sort, they would have remained with us. But [they went out] that it might be shown up that not all are of our sort.

 

[Valjean]

according to the bible he would become a disciple , and he would then teach others what was taught to him .
And Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: "All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples
Or, "make learners." Gr., ma·the·teu´sa·te.
of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded YOU. And, look! I am with YOU all the days until the conclusion of the system of things." matthew 28;19-20

OK, he would be a "disciple" -- and also an apostate, inasmuch as he left a former religion for another. That is what an apostate is.

 

[Valjean]

I don't think an individual can become an apostate, for if they have truly trusted Jesus for salvation,

quote] a little leaven is all it needs , it starts with one but then when others listen and take on board the things that individual says it spreads like gangrene .
By [his] mouth the one who is an apostate brings his fellowman to ruin, but by knowledge are the righteous rescued..... proverbs 11;9
(Galatians 4:17) They zealously seek YOU, not in a fine way, but they want to shut YOU off [from me], that YOU may zealously seek them.

(1 Timothy 4:1) However, the inspired utterance says definitely that in later periods of time some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired utterances and teachings of demons,​

(1 John 2:19) They went out from us, but they were not of our sort; for if they had been of our sort, they would have remained with us. But [they went out] that it might be shown up that not all are of our sort.

You're saying that it's impossible for someone to change his religious beliefs!? I've never heard anything so ridiculous! Why do missionaries go on missions if not to get people to abandon their old religion for a new on -- ie: to apostatize?

Why can't "...an individual become an apostate...?" You're saying the word, the very concept, is meaningless!

 

[joeboonda]

I don't think an individual can become an apostate, for if they have truly trusted Jesus for salvation,

quote] a little leaven is all it needs , it starts with one but then when others listen and take on board the things that individual says it spreads like gangrene .
By [his] mouth the one who is an apostate brings his fellowman to ruin, but by knowledge are the righteous rescued..... proverbs 11;9
(Galatians 4:17) They zealously seek YOU, not in a fine way, but they want to shut YOU off [from me], that YOU may zealously seek them.

(1 Timothy 4:1) However, the inspired utterance says definitely that in later periods of time some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired utterances and teachings of demons,​

(1 John 2:19) They went out from us, but they were not of our sort; for if they had been of our sort, they would have remained with us. But [they went out] that it might be shown up that not all are of our sort.

1 John 2:19
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had beenof us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

They were never OF US, or they would have CONTINUED WITH US. But THEY WENT OUT, so it would be MANIFEST that THEY WERE NOT OF US. Get it?

 

[joeboonda]

You're saying that it's impossible for someone to change his religious beliefs!? I've never heard anything so ridiculous! Why do missionaries go on missions if not to get people to abandon their old religion for a new on -- ie: to apostatize?

Why can't "...an individual become an apostate...?" You're saying the word, the very concept, is meaningless!

We look at it differently, that's all. When a person becomes born again, their spirit is regenerated, made alive, the Holy Spirit indwells, seals, gifts, guides, empowers them and they are a new creature, adopted into God's family, children of light and of God rather than children of darkness, wrath, and disobedience, its like turning from night to day! I am not speaking of sinless perfection, for we come to Christ as we are with all our sins and bad habits and attitudes, but then He begins His work in us, changing us from glory to glory as we grow in His grace. Look at George Foreman for example, the love of Christ pours out of the man, he even loves his opponents in the ring. He has been saved for well over 10 years, he is now an evangelist, he also is a great salesman and has his own church and a boxing gym for young men. He even returned to boxing after 10 years to become, against all odds and naysayers who said he was too old, to become the Heavyweight Champion of the World again! He is completely changed. Yes, some of his beliefs may change or become refined or whatever over time, but he will never become an apostate. An apostate is someone who was "with us but not OF US." Christian in name only but who never trusted Christ, who never was born again. Man, once a person is born again they will never be the same again, haleluia!

 

[Valjean]

We look at it differently, that's all. When a person becomes born again, their spirit is regenerated, made alive, the Holy Spirit indwells, seals, gifts, guides, empowers them and they are a new creature, adopted into God's family, children of light and of God rather than children of darkness, wrath, and disobedience, its like turning from night to day! I am not speaking of sinless perfection, for we come to Christ as we are with all our sins and bad habits and attitudes, but then He begins His work in us, changing us from glory to glory as we grow in His grace. Look at George Foreman for example, the love of Christ pours out of the man, he even loves his opponents in the ring. He has been saved for well over 10 years, he is now an evangelist, he also is a great salesman and has his own church and a boxing gym for young men. He even returned to boxing after 10 years to become, against all odds and naysayers who said he was too old, to become the Heavyweight Champion of the World again! He is completely changed. Yes, some of his beliefs may change or become refined or whatever over time, but he will never become an apostate. An apostate is someone who was "with us but not OF US." Christian in name only but who never trusted Christ, who never was born again. Man, once a person is born again they will never be the same again, haleluia!

So? -- turning to Christianity is still apostasy. The word is not meaningless. If you abandon your religion, even to adopt the One True Religion, you're an apostate.

"We look at it differently..." -- No you don't. The Muslims believe the same thing. Every religion believes the same thing. Your only claim is that Christianity is exceptional; in a class by itself; the One True Religion, and that apostasy from another religion to the truth of Christianity is fundamentally different from the abandonment of Christianity to embrace the truth of Islam, Buddhism, Judaism, &c.

 

[Valjean]

Hey -- that's not my original post. There's some kind of software wrror here.

 

[may]

You're saying that it's impossible for someone to change his religious beliefs!? I've never heard anything so ridiculous! Why do missionaries go on missions if not to get people to abandon their old religion for a new on -- ie: to apostatize?

Why can't "...an individual become an apostate...?" You're saying the word, the very concept, is meaningless!

individuals CAN become apostates , that is what the scriptures confirm. it wasnt me who said they could not .