Anti-Zionism?

[Doktormartini]

Very good, you get an 'A+' for 'Clueless about the Middle-East.'

Jews and Arabs did not live in peace. In 1929, two decades before Israel, 133 Jews were killed, hundreds more wounded, and Jewish women were raped by Arabs in a SINGLE DAY. Would you like to know how the British responded to protect the Jews? The ethnically cleansed the city of Hebron (4th Holiest city in Judaism) of all Jews.

What was it called before 1948? Palestie. Also, links (good ones) on that subject?

 

[ssrt]

What was it called before 1948? Palestie. Also, links (good ones) on that subject?

It was called the British Mandate of Palestine, correct. However, this was the name given to the land by the Romans in order to erase the Jewish connection to the land (and it would appear that they have succeeded), it was never the name of a sovereign nation.

Links:

1920 Palestine Riots
1921 Jaffa Massacre
1929 Palestine Massacre
(Around this time Jewish terrorist groups came into being to retalliate against the Arabs)
1936-1939 Arab Revolt in Palestine

So much for peace before Israel, huh?

 

[mohamedhassan]

Very good, you get an 'A+' for 'Clueless about the Middle-East.'

I'd like to give you an A+ about the cluelessness of history! Jews have lived side-by-side peacefully with arabs through out most of history untill they went haywire and started killing them like mad

Jews and Arabs did not live in peace. In 1929, two decades before Israel, 133 Jews were killed, hundreds more wounded, and Jewish women were raped by Arabs in a SINGLE DAY. Would you like to know how the British responded to protect the Jews? The ethnically cleansed the city of Hebron (4th Holiest city in Judaism) of all Jews.

Totally condem that but the jewish retaliation made that look like childs play!

The same happened in 1936-1939 (over a decade before Israel), when Arabs instigated riots and killed 400 Jews.

When you take someones house and tell them to migrate their really not gonna leave peacefully especially when they've lived in those houses for generations

And, of course, what I like to point out to people who compare ZIonism to Nazism: It was the Palestinians who supported the Nazis. Mohammed Amin Al-Husayni, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem (who was interestingly Arafat's uncle) and the Palestinian leader, went to meet Hitler to discuss the expansion of the final solution to the Middle-East. His goal was identical to Hitler's: The total destruction of the Jewish People.

This is all propaganda by that ex-PLO guy (wuts his name?) Jews ran to muslim countries to escape the holocoust (eg. Turkey). I mean Iran hates the existance of Isreal but they have a good minority of Jews living in their state which they haven't yet obliterated! look back in history and check how long jews have lived and propspered under arab rule!!!

By the way The candian prime minister (can't recall his name) also visited Hitler and said (paraphrasing) "Hitler is a great man and this world can youse more like him" guess he got his wish, you got ppl like Sharoan and Omeret which learned pretty well from Hitler

I must admit though some arabs are racist to all jews in general, probably coz of ignorance, personally i'm just against the state of Isreal PERIOD. Also ppl have to get this "Arab" mentality out of their minds. "get the palistians to other Arab Lands" the issue is more then that, Jeruslum Has one the second most sacried mounuments of islam, so no chance of wiping palestianans from there!

 

[ssrt]

I'd like to give you an A+ about the cluelessness of history! Jews have lived side-by-side peacefully with arabs through out most of history untill they went haywire and started killing them like mad

It is true that Jews have historically lived more peacefully in the Arab countries than in Europe. But don't try pulling this "The Muslims were innocent and the big bad Jews came and killed us." I'm not a European Jew, I am a Persian Jew - and you will not tell me that my family were not driven out of Iran by anti-semitic pogroms, because they were.

Totally condem that but the jewish retaliation made that look like childs play!

Jewish retaliation need not have come! The Jews living in Palestine suffered for decades before any response came - why did the Arabs not identify this gesture of good will and act for peace?

When you take someones house and tell them to migrate their really not gonna leave peacefully especially when they've lived in those houses for generations

This was before Israel was created. Not one Arab left their house at this time. This excuse is meaningless.

This is all propaganda by that ex-PLO guy (wuts his name?) Jews ran to muslim countries to escape the holocoust (eg. Turkey). I mean Iran hates the existance of Isreal but they have a good minority of Jews living in their state which they haven't yet obliterated! look back in history and check how long jews have lived and propspered under arab rule!!!

Again, Jews have lived better under Muslims than Christians historically. That does NOT mean that they have lived well, nor that that continues to be the case today. We lived safely, yes, but did we live well? I don't consider being classified as a dhimmi living well, with all due respect.

By the way The candian prime minister (can't recall his name) also visited Hitler and said (paraphrasing) "Hitler is a great man and this world can youse more like him" guess he got his wish, you got ppl like Sharoan and Omeret which learned pretty well from Hitler

Sharon was insane and Olmert is an idiot, but they are not Hitlers. Have you no shame comparing the genocide of 6 million Jews and millions of others to the current conditions of the Palestinians, who are given autonomy?

I must admit though some arabs are racist to all jews in general, probably coz of ignorance, personally i'm just against the state of Isreal PERIOD. Also ppl have to get this "Arab" mentality out of their minds. "get the palistians to other Arab Lands" the issue is more then that, Jeruslum Has one the second most sacried mounuments of islam, so no chance of wiping palestianans from there!

Hebron is one of the holiest cities to Jews, and yet the city has been entirely cleansed of Jews. Why?

I personally have no problem with Palestinians living in Israel so long as they don't try to blow themselves up or fire rockets at my family, but unfortunately many of them seem intent on doing just that. While driving the Palestinians out of Jerusalem seems impossible to you, driving the Jews out of Jerusalem and into the sea is not so impossible to them.

 

[xexon]

Go on. Show us this astounding evidence that has been somehow missed by credible historians.

http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/holocaust-zionism.htm

http://www.zundelsite.org/english/news/070426_Ginzburg_testimony.php

http://vho.org/aaargh/engl/zad/zad.html

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v13/v13n4p29_Weber.html




x

 

[ssrt]

Seems you don't understand what a credible historian is...

 

[xexon]

I see this thread stank so bad in the Jewish section , it had to be dragged out here in the open. So be it. This is a subject that needs a lot of public airing.

I will make it plain that my attacks on zionism have NOTHING to do with jews or judaism. I have no problems with either of them. I'm after the politcal arm of zionism. The people who control Israel, and seem to have more power in Washington than our own citizens do. These people are every bit as dangerous as Muslim extremists, and they are largely responsible for the turmoil in and around Israel.

Is it not strange that we seldom hear of zionist extremists in the western media?

History?

History is recorded by those who make it to the presses first.


x

 

[Yerda]

The people who control Israel, and seem to have more power in Washington than our own citizens do.

Would you like to name them?

Is it not strange that we seldom hear of zionist extremists in the western media?

You feel that Zionist-extremist activity is under reported?

 

[xexon]

I'm not going to do anyone's homework for them. Those who are interested will do that on their own. Its time consuming, and requires alot of digging as these people cover themselves very well.

As for Israel, is it not true that the western media favors Israeli points of view over that of Arab points of view? Do you know why? Because the zionists swarm anybody who puts a bad light on Israel. None of the corporate media wants to deal with that.

Same for American politicians. In the United States, if you badmouth Israel, your career in public service is over. You'll be branded an anti-semite, and they make you wear this brand like the nazis made jews wear the yellow star of David. You become an untouchable.

I'll toss in this this link, so anyone concerned with this can research for themselves whats true or not.

http://www.wrmea.com/links/index.htm

This will give you a BALANCED news feed, and not the biased tripe that comes from your evening news.


x

 

[Sonic247]

All I know is God brought the Jews out of Egypt and gave them the land that he had promised to Abraham, but when they rebelled and served other Gods they went into captivity mainly to Assryia and Babylon, one day they will posses that land again. The future of Israel is predetermined all a Jewish person can do is seek God and do his will in his/her life and not worry about it, but then again with everything that's going on it would be hard to not worry about it.

 

[xexon]

The politcal zionism that is causing so much of a problem started in the late 1800's with the publication of Der Judenstaat, "The Jewish State".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodor_Herzl

Modern jews have never know judaism without this being attached to their faith and upbringing. And not all jews agree with it's principles. Sadly, they have become the minority.

x

 

[ssrt]

I'm not going to do anyone's homework for them. Those who are interested will do that on their own. Its time consuming, and requires alot of digging as these people cover themselves very well.

How eery! You know, I can throw around unsubstantiated allegations just as well as the next guy, but I prefer to keep discussions in the realm of fact rather than speculation.

Let me give you an important hint when citing sources: Avoid holocaust deniers (you previously gave me a link to Ernst Zundel...) and other clearly biased sites. For example, a site called "Jews not Zionists" (another of your links) has a rather obvious political slant, doesn't it?

If you're going to make claims, back them up with reliable sources. Otherwise you have no case short of defamation and slander of a perfectly legitimate political movement.

As for Israel, is it not true that the western media favors Israeli points of view over that of Arab points of view?

Does it? I didn't notice that during the war in Lebanon, or during the Intifadas. This is a completely hollow accusation which fits in perfectly with the rest of your posts. You seem convinced that there is some sort of all powerful Zionist entity that reaches, influences and controls everything.

Do you know why? Because the zionists swarm anybody who puts a bad light on Israel. None of the corporate media wants to deal with that.

And I was sure you were about to claim that Zionists owned the media...

Regardless, this is simply untrue. The media tackles far more challenging and controversial issues than Israel.

Same for American politicians. In the United States, if you badmouth Israel, your career in public service is over.

Absolute nonsense. Go ahead an look up Ron Paul, for example. He's been very clear that he doesn't support Israel or American aid to it, and yet he is a senator running quite successfuly for president.

You'll be branded an anti-semite, and they make you wear this brand like the nazis made jews wear the yellow star of David. You become an untouchable.

A subtle comparison to the Nazis. You are slowly filling up the tired old checklist of lies and propaganda used by blind critics of Israel.

 

[ssrt]

The politcal zionism that is causing so much of a problem started in the late 1800's with the publication of Der Judenstaat, "The Jewish State".

Zionism does not cause problems. Someone who is a Zionist is someone who believes that the Jews should have a state - end of story. Opposing Zionsim is opposing the UNIVERSAL HUMAN RIGHT of ALL PEOPLE to self-determination.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodor_Herzl

Modern jews have never know judaism without this being attached to their faith and upbringing. And not all jews agree with it's principles. Sadly, they have become the minority.

You're being ridiculous again. Ask my younger brothers and sisters who Theodor Herzl is and they will look at you blankly.

Zionism is not a religious issue - though there is an undeniable link to Judaism in Zionism. Zionism is the movement for a Jewish nation home in Israel in order to protect the Jews from the persecution they have faced in the diaspora. No more, and no less.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

The people who control Israel, and seem to have more power in Washington than our own citizens do.

This type of antisemitic drivel has been around for a long time - one can hear the echoes of Henry Ford. Tirades against this ever present "Jewish conspiracy", perhaps even more than the charge of "Christ killers", served as ideological justification for the final solution.

It's rather sad to see how few find this garbage sufficiently objectionable to warrant comment.

 

[Booko]

*** MOD POST ***

Yes, this thread was moved out of DIR Judaism because it had little to do with the religion of Judaism and is obviously a debate and not a discussion.

Please remember that rule 1 also applies to sides in international conflicts while posting in this thread:

1.) While debate and discussion is encouraged, we will not tolerate rude, insulting, hostile, or inflammatory posts. Personal attacks are strictly prohibited.

I know this can be a delicate issue, but try to be civil, folks.

 

[xexon]

I stand by every word of what I've said.

Jewish folk will certainly have the hardest time with it. All your lives, this wolf in sheep's clothing has gently carressed you hair and looked after your needs. It protects you, so that you will in turn protect "it".

But someday, someday soon, you will see what the zionist elite have on the menu for the clueless jewish people. You are being used until you are no longer needed.

When you see the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem destroyed by zionism, the gates of hell will open for the entire world.

Easy to open, exceedingly difficult to close. But you can't tell "them" that. They think they can control it.


x

 

[Booko]

I stand by every word of what I've said.

Jewish folk will certainly have the hardest time with it. All your lives, this wolf in sheep's clothing has gently carressed you hair and looked after your needs. It protects you, so that you will in turn protect "it".

But someday, someday soon, you will see what the zionist elite have on the menu for the clueless jewish people. You are being used until you are no longer needed.

When you see the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem destroyed by zionism, the gates of hell will open for the entire world.

Easy to open, exceedingly difficult to close. But you can't tell "them" that. They think they can control it.

These ideas are as disgusting as some of the bilge put out about Jews during medieval times.

Question who is being used here.

I thought for a moment I had wandered into one of anyscientologist's threads. :sarcastic:

 

[xexon]

Its NOT about jews. The tribe or the religion. Its about the political movement. I would say the same thing about Catholics or baptists. These people happen to be jewish, and that's where it ends for me. x

 

[Booko]

Its NOT about jews. The tribe or the religion. Its about the political movement. I would say the same thing about Catholics or baptists. These people happen to be jewish, and that's where it ends for me. x

You talk about influence of Zionism in our govt, fine.

So who's hanging at the White House these days? Zionists or Bandar Bush?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I stand by every word of what I've said.

So did your predecessors. Now, please identify the participants of this Jewish-Zionist conspiracy subverting American politics.