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Anti-Islamic Sentiment on RF

Baydwin

Well-Known Member
Has RF always been so anti-Islamic?

There have been a lot of threads about Islam, or threads that have degenerated into Islam-bashing, in the last few weeks. More so than there seem to be looking back through the older pages of threads in the debates forum anyway.

Has the anti-Islamic sentiment always been present? I've seen it said that it's in response to more fundamentalist Muslims becoming members, is that true?

Am I the only one getting bored with all the hate? Especially when every other thread devolves into an anti-Islam rant repeating the same old arguments/comments, it gets me down.
 

Kilgore Trout

Misanthropic Humanist
One thing I like about RF is that there is a pretty good overall sense that people are willing to listen to, and show respect to, people of differing belief systems, and that most conflicts come down to interactions between individuals, not generalities. If there's a perception of an overall bias, I'd say it has more to do with the individuals involved, than any general bias.
 

Madhuri

RF Goddess
Staff member
Premium Member
I agree with atotalstranger. I have observed that disputes arise between individuals rather than on the basis of religion.
 

JMorris

Democratic Socialist
Has RF always been so anti-Islamic?

There have been a lot of threads about Islam, or threads that have degenerated into Islam-bashing, in the last few weeks. More so than there seem to be looking back through the older pages of threads in the debates forum anyway.

Has the anti-Islamic sentiment always been present? I've seen it said that it's in response to more fundamentalist Muslims becoming members, is that true?

Am I the only one getting bored with all the hate? Especially when every other thread devolves into an anti-Islam rant repeating the same old arguments/comments, it gets me down.

stay here long enough and every thread becomes the same old arguments/comments getting repeated.

but yes, the muslim population here on RF is populated primarily fundamentalists in my opinion. not solely mind you, but primarily.

i do not hate muslims and i do not hate islam (no more so than the other Abrahamic religions). before coming here every other experience ive had with muslims had been without exception had been pleasant & polite. and RF was not the first experience ive had with talking to muslims about their religion. but RF has been something else entirely (for the most part).

the constant assertions that science basically dosent exist, that homosexuals are the spawn of satan and should not be awarded basic human rights, and that anything critical or satirical about islam equates to islamophobia; these things can get a bit irritating.

if RF was the only experience a person has ever had with muslims, i can certainly see how that can leave a pretty bad impression. but RF is not necessarily representative of muslims as a whole, and that is something worth remembering.

that is not to say there are no good muslim members here on RF, because there are. they just seem to be drowned out by the extremes, which tends to happen to just about every self-identifying group of people.

*edit* tho i am not saying there arent some people here who are simply anti-islam.
 
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Quagmire

Imaginary talking monkey
Staff member
Premium Member
I disagree that most of the problem is between individuals. There's a lot of anti-Islamic sentiment in western society over all these days, which is where most of our members come from, and I think it's definitely reflected in a lot of the posts/threads in here.

Something I've noticed repeatedly is this tendency for people(members) who are usually on opposite sides of just about every issue---fundamentalists vs. gays, anti-religionists vs. Christians, atheists vs. theists, scholars vs. wanna-be scholars, trolls vs. everybody---to silently agree to temporarily set aside their differences for the sake of ganging up on the Muslim members.
 

Madhuri

RF Goddess
Staff member
Premium Member
Something I've noticed repeatedly is this tendency for people(members) who are usually on opposite sides of just about every issue---fundamentalists vs. gays, anti-religionists vs. Christians, atheists vs. theists, scholars vs. wanna-be scholars, trolls vs. everybody---to silently agree to temporarily set aside their differences for the sake of ganging up on the Muslim members.

I wonder if this is somehow to do with people seeing Islam as a dangerous threat.

I think that JMorris has some really good points.
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
I do not think the forum has become especially anti Muslim.. However I have noticed some tendency to not give as much space to Fundamentalists of any type.

The Muslim faith is not to my taste, However I have lived and worked amongst many Muslims over the past 15 years, some have become close friends. Fortunately none of my friends have turned out to be the fundamentalist type. Though one of them employs a full time Muller in his business for the spiritual needs of his large mainly Muslim staff.

I have no trouble speaking out against any belief or system I find lacking. Though in no case is hate involved. I have often spoken out to support Palestinians, and perhaps almost as many times against fundamentalist Muslims.

I think if there is ever going to be reconciliation between all people, it does no good pretending that objectionable differences do not exist.
 

JMorris

Democratic Socialist
I disagree that most of the problem is between individuals. There's a lot of anti-Islamic sentiment in western society over all these days, which is where most of our members come from, and I think it's definitely reflected in a lot of the posts/threads in here.

Something I've noticed repeatedly is this tendency for people(members) who are usually on opposite sides of just about every issue---fundamentalists vs. gays, anti-religionists vs. Christians, atheists vs. theists, scholars vs. wanna-be scholars, trolls vs. everybody---to silently agree to temporarily set aside their differences for the sake of ganging up on the Muslim members.

you couldnt possibly be asserting that there arent a very vocal few who invite this on themselves. or could you? from my RF travels, it seems to me that most of what you have described is directed primarily (with some unfortunate exceptions) at those aforementioned "vocal few". thats not to say there arent a vocal few on the other side as well.
 
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Quagmire

Imaginary talking monkey
Staff member
Premium Member
you couldnt possibly be asserting that there arent a very vocal few who invite this on themselves. or could you?

Of course there are, and you'll be just as likely to see me in those threads giving them as hard time as anyone else. This is because, if we're talking about the same people, they're trolls. I don't make any distinctions between trolls based on their religious beliefs.

from my RF travels, it seems to me that most of what you have described is directed primarily (with some unfortunate exceptions) at those aforementioned "vocal few". thats not to say there arent a vocal few on the other side either.

No, not always. What I'm mostly talking about are threads that harp on things going on in some predominantly Muslim countries that try to present these incidents or issues as being somehow representative of Islam as a whole.

I've never understood why anyone from western society would find it necessary to go half way around the globe to find incidents of child abuse, oppression, or injustice, as if there weren't an epidemic of these same abuses in our own culture.

Actually, I sometimes wonder what the implications are of the fact that an incident of pedophilia in the middle east somehow rates front page, global news when the thousands of incidents of the same thing occuring every day here in the U.S. don't even rate mention on page 15 in the local police blotter.
 

JMorris

Democratic Socialist
Of course there are, and you'll be just as likely to see me in those threads giving them as hard time as anyone else. This is because, if we're talking about the same people, they're trolls. I don't make any distinctions between trolls based on their religious beliefs.



No, not always. What I'm mostly talking about are threads that harp on things going on in some predominantly Muslim countries that try to present these incidents or issues as being somehow representative of Islam as a whole.

I've never understood why anyone from western society would find it necessary to go half way around the globe to find incidents of child abuse, oppression, or injustice, as if there weren't an epidemic of these same abuses in our own culture.

Actually, I sometimes wonder what the implications are of the fact that an incident of pedophilia in the middle east somehow rates front page, global news when the thousands of incidents of the same thing occuring every day here in the U.S. don't even rate mention on page 15 in the local police blotter.

all good points, unless their not and im just not noticing, tho they certainly seem to be.;)

and to comment on the state of US news....... of course its biased & sensationalist, when hasnt it been? most "news" in the world is on some level or another, but particularly so here in the US. and if anyone is relying on the US media to keep them informed then their obviously just setting themselves up to be woefully uninformed. 95% of the time the rest of the world dosent exist......until something explodes, until the body count is good and high. but thats another topic for another thread, maybe.:p
 

Kilgore Trout

Misanthropic Humanist
Something I've noticed repeatedly is this tendency for people(members) who are usually on opposite sides of just about every issue---fundamentalists vs. gays, anti-religionists vs. Christians, atheists vs. theists, scholars vs. wanna-be scholars, trolls vs. everybody---to silently agree to temporarily set aside their differences for the sake of ganging up on the Muslim members.

No doubt this happens. But when it does, is it always because those members are muslim, or could it perhaps have to do with how they are conducting themselves?

Additionally, I may be disagreeing with a Muslim on a particular issue, along with a Christian and Hindu, but that doesn't necessarily mean we are in agreement with each other on the issue either.

The bottom line is, there are a set of unspoken rules of conduct on RF. There may be some ribbing, and disagreements, but generally when something starts to look like bashing, it's because the recipient of the "bashing" isn't playing by these rules - whatever beliefs that person holds.
 

Gabethewiking

Active Member
all good points, unless their not and im just not noticing, tho they certainly seem to be.;)

and to comment on the state of US news....... of course its biased & sensationalist, when hasnt it been? most "news" in the world is on some level or another, but particularly so here in the US. and if anyone is relying on the US media to keep them informed then their obviously just setting themselves up to be woefully uninformed. 95% of the time the rest of the world dosent exist......until something explodes, until the body count is good and high. but thats another topic for another thread, maybe.:p

I do not find that fare, I consider the BBC to be a very good new agency (in general) and compared to ANY of our new agency, possible with the Onion which show more accurate "news" then CNN/Fox/Cnbc it is "true"...

I mean, I watched the BBC news when the London bombing happened, I saw no hate for muslims or xenophobic behaviour, afterwards I saw British calmly being worried but not at muslims but general, no aim for them even having a large muslim majority, British themselves where worried Muslims would be harmed by this incident.

On CNN on the other hand.. We had a different view alltogheter, We Americans could see the "truth" I guess...


And for the rest of the world not existing.. Aren't we the world? There is nothing out there is it? The bible said......
 

JMorris

Democratic Socialist
I do not find that fare, I consider the BBC to be a very good new agency (in general) and compared to ANY of our new agency, possible with the Onion which show more accurate "news" then CNN/Fox/Cnbc it is "true"...

I mean, I watched the BBC news when the London bombing happened, I saw no hate for muslims or xenophobic behaviour, afterwards I saw British calmly being worried but not at muslims but general, no aim for them even having a large muslim majority, British themselves where worried Muslims would be harmed by this incident.

On CNN on the other hand.. We had a different view alltogheter, We Americans could see the "truth" I guess...


And for the rest of the world not existing.. Aren't we the world? There is nothing out there is it? The bible said......

good point there on the BBC. i honestly cant think of anything that could cause me to say "the BBC is biased & sensationalist".
 

Quagmire

Imaginary talking monkey
Staff member
Premium Member
No doubt this happens. But when it does, is it always because those members are muslim, or could it perhaps have to do with how they are conducting themselves?

Like I mentioned in my last post, trolls are just as likely to be Islamic as the members of any other faith. Again, these aren't the people I'm talking about.

Additionally, I may be disagreeing with a Muslim on a particular issue, along with a Christian and Hindu, but that doesn't necessarily mean we are in agreement with each other on the issue either.

I've still noticed situations where people who've been repeatedly and consistantly at each others throats in other threads basically wind up giving each other a high five in some of the Islam bashing threads.

The fact is that regardless of religion or lack (or even revulsion) there of, most of the people in here are from basically the same culture with more or less the same mores and social values. Whatever disagreement they may have on certain issues there's bound to be unspoken agreement on countless other issues.

Those commonalities become apparent when someone who doesn't share them shows up, and they usually serve as a basis of at least temporary solidarity against the outsider.

The bottom line is, there are a set of unspoken rules of conduct on RF.

This is part of the problem: there are all kinds of unspoken rules of conduct within western culture itself that we, people who were raised in it and have lived in it all our lives, aren't even consiously aware of until someone violates one of them.

When someone does our first reaction is to assume malicious intent or elective ignorance on the part of the person in question.

It's sort of like, "Everyone knows you're not supposed to do that..." or "Anyone could see that that was meant as sarcasim" or "No decent, intelegent person would re-act to such and such that way...".

We've all been programed by our society and surroundings to a large extent, most of that programming is sub-consious and our adherence to it is automatic, and to a large extent our perceptions are based on or filtered through the fundemantal precepts of that programing.

When we interact with someone from another culture, who may have received an even slightly different programing, our initial reaction in any confrontation---when someone's reactions don't match what our own would be in similar circumstances--- is "There's something wrong with this person".

This is to say nothing of the language barrier: a lot of the Muslims in here speak English as a second language. There are nuances of meaning dependent on context that we are, again, unconcious of, and that even someone who's mastered the language may have never been exposed to.

There may be some ribbing, and disagreements, but generally when something starts to look like bashing, it's because the recipient of the "bashing" isn't playing by these rules - whatever beliefs that person holds.

Not always. There ar plenty of threads that start out bashing Islam as a whole, usually with some pre-drawn conclusions implied in the title.
 

Gabethewiking

Active Member
good point there on the BBC. i honestly cant think of anything that could cause me to say "the BBC is biased & sensationalist".

No,"boring" comes to mind, which happens when you are not doing Riki Lake TV. :areyoucra

Sure, they aren't perfect, but most other news I seen (in English) have been terrible biased, especially ours. I do not know about French and German, even if I speak German I can not remember watching news in the country so I keep any opinion for myself.
 

301ouncer

Well-Known Member
Of course there are, and you'll be just as likely to see me in those threads giving them as hard time as anyone else. This is because, if we're talking about the same people, they're trolls. I don't make any distinctions between trolls based on their religious beliefs.



No, not always. What I'm mostly talking about are threads that harp on things going on in some predominantly Muslim countries that try to present these incidents or issues as being somehow representative of Islam as a whole.

I've never understood why anyone from western society would find it necessary to go half way around the globe to find incidents of child abuse, oppression, or injustice, as if there weren't an epidemic of these same abuses in our own culture.

Actually, I sometimes wonder what the implications are of the fact that an incident of pedophilia in the middle east somehow rates front page, global news when the thousands of incidents of the same thing occuring every day here in the U.S. don't even rate mention on page 15 in the local police blotter.

Wanted to thank each of your posts but you do not have that feature. Can you add it?
 

301ouncer

Well-Known Member
actually it is kind of pleasant to be here. You have not been among american christian fundamantilist. I would have a muslim fundamantilist anyday to an american one. Trust me you do not know. lol.
 

Sahar

Well-Known Member
No, not always. What I'm mostly talking about are threads that harp on things going on in some predominantly Muslim countries that try to present these incidents or issues as being somehow representative of Islam as a whole.
Not only this but expecting Muslims here to bear some sort of responsibility for such things or should have an explanation for them which is very frustrating.
 
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