Anarchy

[Aqualung]

I must admit, that sounds as if it makes sense, but is not your interpretation just that ? - an interpretation.

I must admit to having always seen the judge not lest ye be judged as being a straight forward 'instruction'

Yes, it's an interpretation, but about as much as my interpretation of the sentence, "if you want a candy bar, raise your hand" means that if I want a candy bar, I should raise my hand.

 

[Green Gaia]

Actually, I am saying do not judge anyone, because everyone is a sinner. You fear your child dying, but when he dies will he not go to Heaven? I am not saying everything will be peachy, but I just don't see how you can judge someone when you yourself have done or will do things that are certainly wrong. The fear of death does not make sense to me if you believe you or the children you want to protect will be in Heaven after they leave earth. After you die, will you be mad that you died or glad that you have met God and are living in his kingdom?

If you are speaking to me, then you should know that I do not believe in places of reward or punishment that we go to after we die (heaven or hell). That is not the reason I would fear for my children's safety. I would fear for them because I love them and do not want them to be hurt or killed. I don't know why that is hard for you to understand.

 

[michel]

Yes, it's an interpretation, but about as much as my interpretation of the sentence, "if you want a candy bar, raise your hand" means that if I want a candy bar, I should raise my hand.

O.K fair enough.......

Of course, we have to have judges; I guess it would be immoral not to judge others, because if you consider judgement a sin, you are merely making others sin on your behalf.....................

Sorry, thinking on 'paper'

 

[sdotbrown]

Sorry Maize, I was assuming that you believed in an afterlife. Obviously then your fears are justified by your beliefs. Didn't mean to come off as offensive.

I am not arguing that this is just my interpretation, just wanted to hear what others had to say about this. I am not going to claim to know the bible inside and out, but from what I know, I just do not think that one person can judge another person. If you believe in God's laws, all you need to do is follow them. Read what Jesus said, and try to live within those boundaries. No one will be able to go through life sin free. Jesus says the worst sin is worshipping something other than God. I have not read where he says murder or theft is worse than adultery or vice-versa. It is my belief that God will do the judging, and I have to do my best to live how he wants me to.

 

[Amlaith]

Go visit France for a couple of days and let us know how it's going over there.

There is obviously no anarchy in France. What you mean is the civilian unrest, caused by the despair of young immigrants (mostly in the third generation) in the banlieues (the suburbs), who don´t have chances to get a job or being part of French society. After years of being ignored, now they are happy to get the attention of media stations around the world. Although this seems to be a national problem of the French, it definitely isn´t. Townships in South Africa, Favelas in South America, Ghettos in Europe and North America. Of course this was a special situation, because the people of the banlieues in France never had the feeling that they were Frenchs, even when they became French by law. The despair bursts after the remarkable statement of the French secretary of the interior, Nicolas Sarkozy, who characterized those people as ragtag. I recently spoke with some young Frenchs and they were very angry about this statement. Unlike some German politicians I don't believe this couldn´t happen here too. I believe this is a general problem of modern economy.
I think the French can handle this problem.

Ironically some French TV-Stations called the unrests in New Orleans as may be the beginning of a civil war, which now echoes in some American commentaries.

But now back to topic:

"Anarchism is a generic term describing various political philosophies and social movements that advocate the elimination of all forms of government, in favor of a society whose members interact on a voluntary basis. These philosophies use anarchy to mean a society based on voluntary interaction of free individuals, and the idea that communities and individuals have a say in decisions to the degree that they are affected by their outcomes." (wikipedia.org)

I don't believe that Anarchy could be working. With Hobbes words it would end in a "war of all against all."

 

[michel]

There is obviously no anarchy in France. What you mean is the civilian unrest, caused by the despair of young immigrants (mostly in the third generation) in the banlieues (the suburbs), who don´t have chances to get a job or being part of French society. After years of being ignored, now they are happy to get the attention of media stations around the world. Although this seems to be a national problem of the French, it definitely isn´t. Townships in South Africa, Favelas in South America, Ghettos in Europe and North America. Of course this was a special situation, because the people of the banlieues in France never had the feeling that they were Frenchs, even when they became French by law. The despair bursts after the remarkable statement of the French secretary of the interior, Nicolas Sarkozy, who characterized those people as ragtag. I recently spoke with some young Frenchs and they were very angry about this statement. Unlike some German politicians I don't believe this couldn´t happen here too. I believe this is a general problem of modern economy.
I think the French can handle this problem.

Ironically some French TV-Stations called the unrests in New Orleans as may be the beginning of a civil war, which now echoes in some American commentaries.

But now back to topic:

"Anarchism is a generic term describing various political philosophies and social movements that advocate the elimination of all forms of government, in favor of a society whose members interact on a voluntary basis. These philosophies use anarchy to mean a society based on voluntary interaction of free individuals, and the idea that communities and individuals have a say in decisions to the degree that they are affected by their outcomes." (wikipedia.org)

I don't believe that Anarchy could be working. With Hobbes words it would end in a "war of all against all."

Amlaith,

As I notice this is your first post, I thought I would take the opportunity to welcome you here.

You might like to post on Are you new to ReligiousForums.com? , in order to introduce yourself to the other members of the forum.

I hope you enjoy the forum, we sometimes have ruffled feathers, but hey, that's part of debate. I look forward to seeing your posts;BTH, your above reply was 'spot on'.

 

[sdotbrown]

My main arguement for anarchy is that I believe it is wrong to judge other people. The government is put in place almost solely for this reason. I do not think anyone has the right to judge anyone else. I think morals have to be placed ahead of convienience and comfort.

 

[Quiddity]

My main arguement for anarchy is that I believe it is wrong to judge other people.

What kind of judging goes on in anarchy? There is none, that's the point.

~Victor

 

[Aqualung]

My main arguement for anarchy is that I believe it is wrong to judge other people. The government is put in place almost solely for this reason. I do not think anyone has the right to judge anyone else. I think morals have to be placed ahead of convienience and comfort.

Does prevention=judgement? Does making a law that says, "anybody who rapes should get punished" judge anybody in particular? It doesn't. Judging would be, "That person raped this person because . . . and is therefore guilty of . . ." Judging is not, "There is a law that says if you rape you must go to jail. You raped, and therefore you must go to jail."

 

[sdotbrown]

Victor, that is exactly my point. That is why I think anarchy is the right way to live.

 

[jamaesi]

I understand that no one will accept anarchy, and it will never happen.

Yes, I would let them do whatever they wanted. In the bible it is said many times over that living a moral life will be very difficult. It is much easier to judge people and lock them up then to let God do the judging. I don't doubt that a lot of bad things would happen, but personal responsibilty is something I believe very strongly in.

What are you afraid of exactly. Living for God gives you freedom from fear. I am not saying you're not living for Him, but I just don't understand what your big fears are. Of course He doesn't want us to live in fear. Believe in Him and what is there to fear?

So where was your God when I was raped?


I have a heck of a lot more "faith" and "trust" in laws that say doing harm to others is bad and people who do that crap will be punished.

 

[Quiddity]

Victor, that is exactly my point. That is why I think anarchy is the right way to live.

Read your first post and you will see why I interpreted as I did.
Thanks for the clarification.

~Victor

 

[sdotbrown]

So where was your God when I was raped?


I have a heck of a lot more "faith" and "trust" in laws that say doing harm to others is bad and people who do that crap will be punished.

I can't pretend to understand your situation. I wish that that did not happen to you. I know in the bible that it says that living a moral life will be difficult. That is what I believe. There is no way to say this without sounding preachy, but forgiveness is also taught in the bible. If you do not believe in that the bible is God's word then obviously this does not affect your thinking.

 

[jamaesi]

I can't pretend to understand your situation. I wish that that did not happen to you. I know in the bible that it says that living a moral life will be difficult. That is what I believe. There is no way to say this without sounding preachy, but forgiveness is also taught in the bible. If you do not believe in that the bible is God's word then obviously this does not affect your thinking.

I just obviously don't want sickos out there hurting other people.


And apparently G-d didn't either as he killed so many people in the Bible and gave many laws for what do with rapists and murderers.

 

[sdotbrown]

I just obviously don't want sickos out there hurting other people.


And apparently G-d didn't either as he killed so many people in the Bible and gave many laws for what do with rapists and murderers.

Jesus says to love your enemy, turn the other cheek, forgive, etc. This is my belief at least.

 

[Green Gaia]

Sorry Maize, I was assuming that you believed in an afterlife. Obviously then your fears are justified by your beliefs.

My belief in wanting to keep my children safe? As far as I'm concerned, the jury is out on the existence of any type of afterlife. I suppose I'm an agnostic in that respect. I've never seen any evidence for places of reward or punishment, and those ideas of possible afterlife existence do not factor in my desire to have my children grow up in safe and peaceful world.

 

[Aqualung]

In your view, it shows love to the criminal if you just let him go. (I don't agree with that at all. You can love somebody but recognise that they need to be punished) It shows love to everybody else if you lock him up. "Love" one person, or love all but one person?

 

[Green Gaia]

I can't pretend to understand your situation. I wish that that did not happen to you. I know in the bible that it says that living a moral life will be difficult. That is what I believe.

But that doesn't really help the victims of crimes or keep people safe does it?

 

[Green Gaia]

Jesus says to love your enemy, turn the other cheek, forgive, etc. This is my belief at least.

That's all well and good at an individual level, but as a society we need rules and we need punishments to keep people safe. If someone raped me, I might be able to forgive them, but I'd still want to see them put away so that they can't hurt anyone else.

 

[Darkdale]

I just obviously don't want sickos out there hurting other people.

That's why I believe in hurtin'em back. But, there I go getting all pro-violence again. damn. Knockout I'll forgive a rapist, right after I toss his twisted corpse into a volcano.