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American distrust of scholarship

Discussion in 'General Debates' started by Brickjectivity, Feb 21, 2021.

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  1. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    Let me mention to you the distrust of scholarship in this country and why I think it exists so strongly. Scholarship has a reputation for betraying us. We don't trust scholarship, because while it seems ideal it is often used against the uneducated and poor. Its used as an excuse to take away property rights, used to swindle west virginians out of their land, destroy ways of life. Scholars make arguments to destroy God with. They blame religion for everything. They make better weapons, excuses to make us work harder, reasons to doubt ourselves. They invent things like scientific management. They try to take away the children to re-educate them in foreign ways and claim it will be better.

    Since 1800 in relative isolation a nation of poor farmers (USA) has of necessity grown its own bible interpretations and its own seminaries. Meanwhile our standard high end professional seminaries have gradually become critical of our bibles, critical of our lowborn opinions. Snooty universities for the wealthy classes. We are criticized continually, but what comes of the wisdom of scholars? More junk, more wars, more theft, more trouble. Now everything is scientific, and the rules change so fast you can hardly recognize yesterday. In news usually the poor are to blame for everything evil such as crime, and scholarship is the highlight of humanity!

    We read this in our bibles: "Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?" (1 Corinthians 1:20) To a farmer and a poor man this message resounds. It says "My bible is written to me and is meant to confound the scholars."

    Yes this completely misconstrues the true context of the scripture, but added to this are the contrivances and the machines of the scholars which provoke every poor man.

    I'm speaking in general terms of how this seems to us as a whole, but I value scholarship. I understand the importance of having people dedicated to study. I'm not saying its evil, nor am I saying Americans are right to distrust scholarship. I'm saying why we don't trust scholars.

    ********************

    What do you think? Why do Americans in particular distrust scholarship, or do you think it is more widespread?
     
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  2. Wandering Monk

    Wandering Monk Well-Known Member

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    Things change. Every year, more people are unaffiliated with religious organizations. The fact that no two churches seems to hold to the same scriptural interpretations, let alone two denominations agreeing, just demonstrates how ludicrous the claims and value of 'spiritual truth' are. Maybe folks are tired of religions just making things up.
     
  3. Orbit

    Orbit I'm a planet

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    Scholars include scientists, who make advances in medicine and technology; social scientists, who argue for more empathetic policies towards the poor; religious scholars, who attempt to unravel the historicity of religion. I think you are painting with too wide a brushstroke.
     
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  4. Fallen Prophet

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    I don't like how universities tend to "brain wash" their students. It's more about politics than actual education.
     
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  5. epronovost

    epronovost Well-Known Member

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    Have you ever been in a university? That comment seems like bigotry and prejudice.
     
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  6. Fallen Prophet

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    Yes, I did go to university. It was awful.

    You can criticize an institution or idea without being a prejudiced bigot.

    If you couldn't - then I could say that your comment to me was bigoted and prejudiced - and round and round we go forever.
     
  7. epronovost

    epronovost Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, but that accusation is highly suspicious since anybody with a little bit of education and judgement would know the idea that universities are "brainwashing students" and controlled by marxists/jews/the Left is a conspiracy theory that has been debunked on numerous occasions. In other words, by making yours an accusation that has been debunked several times over the course of 5 decades without presenting any proofs or any sources to support your accusation, you made your point extremely suspicious.

    Both the far-Left and the far-Right as well as religious fundamentalist of the plethora of religions have simultaneosly accused universities and campus to be controlled by "the other". Of course, many of those accusation are mutually exclusive. When anarcho-communists say they are controlled by fascists and capitalists and the anarcho-capitalists, fascists and christian nationalists say they are controlled by the Left both can't be right at the same time.
     
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  8. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    Yes, I think however this is the way scholarship is perceived not everywhere but often.
     
  9. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    I have heard of such things.

    An engineering degree is mostly not political, and I think it depends what curriculum and where you attend university. I think some curricula are more politically activated than others. The solution to that is complicated, because you want professors to be willing to speak out on issues but not for them to program their students. You'd have to ask someone else how to go about making sure students aren't pressed to take political positions. I am unfamiliar with the political/social curricula.
     
  10. ideogenous_mover

    ideogenous_mover Well-Known Member

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    I guess I'll sort of respond to some of these points, though you append the qualification that you like scholarship

    I looked up 'scholarship' to see what it was , and it seems to be quite simple, all it means is building a tool out of knowledge. Why look at the tool for error, why not look at the humans who use it

    How ? That is so broad, that I can't make a retort

    What way of life ? Mining ? Or before that ?

    How in the world is that determined. The christian french, I guess, fought off vikings with crossbows for example.. Einstein didn't seem like he was a total atheist either

    Very broad yet again , I cant think of anything to say. I await your examples

    This is a reference to the country having protestant roots I think. While divergence in religion can foster creativity, these people apparently don't see it that way ? By creative , I mean that it would obviously deviate from baseline ontology

    There is not turning back from the interconnection we have entered into. Either we use it properly , or it crushes us
     
  11. Fallen Prophet

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    I don't know what you think I said - but I was not claiming that any one side of the political spectrum was brain washing students.

    All I said was that it was all about politics - not education. They are receiving less education - and more indoctrination - for more money.

    Universities should stay out of politics completely. Make it all about education. Maybe then these kids can get jobs in the fields they studied.
     
  12. Fallen Prophet

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    I don't think any educator should speak out about any issues. Just educate.
     
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  13. cOLTER

    cOLTER Active Member

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    Americans might not trust scholarship because it has become contaminated with Leftist BIAS in support of so called progressive ideals while omitting, even barring facts that tend to discredit their agenda.
     
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  14. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    Scholarship broadly speaking refers to writers, however in this discourse it refers to those who spend their lives studying and coming up with new ideas, particularly people who are set apart from the main community and not part of the working class. There have been complaints about universities since their beginning. They always struggle with corruption internally and externally. Many attempts have been made to tune universities to prevent political interference and to keep them from oppressing students among other wrongs. They're corruption magnets. That doesn't mean they are unnecessary or that they corrupt everyone, but they tend to accumulate wealth, to need prestige, to hide problems rather than deal with problems. Their bad reputation is deserved in many ways even though they are a necessary institution which does good. Universities are the heart of scholarship. Scholars together share a reputation be it scientists or political scientists or divinity professors or whatever field, and they share universities in common and the university life.

    Why would I want a retort? If you're not understanding what I'm talking about then you're not going to be able to retort anyway. We're talking about how Americans have come to be distrusting of scholarship. What would you know about it?

    Yes but its not just got protestant roots. It has a history of agriculture, isolation, severe independent libertarian roots. The bible takes precedence from the beginning. In the first century people labored hard and had little extra time. They didn't have organized sports for several generations. They were all about getting the harvest in and surviving. They might own one book which was actually a library of books called the bible translated into English. Later in early 19th century they might have added a dictionary to that one book, and that early dictionary was filled with opinions about the bible, too, acting as a commentary.

    Opposite that were the growing seminaries in the old colonies such as Harvard and Yale which later became secular.
     
  15. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    I'd agree for gradeschool and part of high school, but at the same time you have to provoke students to talk among themselves about politics. As a result they will have questions. They also have to learn history, and its hard to come up with an unbiased history. If your version of history is too unbiased you'll be ousted by society or your university or your high school. I think every person has itching ears and wants to hear certain things, and that for me explains why profs should have tenure. Not everyone agrees on that point.
     
  16. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    True in many schools, but you can pick your school if you know ahead of time. I think it was Jordan Peterson who said that 25% of Sociology departments were Marxist. If true that means 75% are not.
     
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  17. Fallen Prophet

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    Yeah we disagree. Everyone should be able to be removed for doing an unsatisfactory job. Students don't need their teachers indoctrinating them.
     
  18. epronovost

    epronovost Well-Known Member

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    That's impossible. How can you teach history or ethics without touching elements linked to politics. How can you even teach law or economy without talking about politics.
     
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  19. Fallen Prophet

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    You can talk about the politics past or present without bias or sharing your opinion.
     
  20. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    I understand your concerns, and this is a real problem particularly in countries that try to completely indoctrinate. How would you go about helping students to learn the lessons of History? History makes the difference between a student with no background and who is gullible and vulnerable and a student who is wary and has foresight.
     
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