All Spirit Is (subatomic)matter? and can only be discerned by ... quantum theorists?

[Troublemane]

Can that which is observed be the observer? This results in a contradiction, because it entails another observer to observe the observer. Thus the import of this rationale declares that the observer cannot be observed, it cannot be made an object of. Therefore, nothing which is empirical can be the observer --- this includes states of mind, personal identity, beliefs desires and the physical world right down to its subatomic constituency. This is what Krishna declares to be the field of knowledge, not the knower. The knower cannot be known empirically ---- rather we are the knower and we must realise the knower.

So what is this that is called quantum? This in Hinduism is known as Mula-prakriti, it is the original state of matter before it collapses into an object state. It is the field within which the whole universe takes forms. It is this field which becomes the mind-field and within which all forms take place. Nothing really exists, there is no outside or inside, everything takes place within the mind-field itself. All thoughts-waves that arise within the mind-field take to us an appearance of an objective form. The reason that the interaction between subjective and object occurs is because they are both modifications in the form of thought waves which occur within the mind field. The field and the knower of the field are not the same though, they are interdependent entities, their mutual co-dependence is logically necessary for their to be existence. Thus quantum which is the nature of the field is indicative of the knower, but knowing the field cannot lead to knowing the knower.

:clap

 

[Women_Of_Reason]

Sorry to disrupt you guys new-age mumbo jumbo but I have a question, since you seem to know how quantum mechanic works:

How can you guys know what QM is all about when physicist themselves don't know how to interpret the results of their own experiments?

 

[doppelganger]

Sorry to disrupt you guys new-age mumbo jumbo

Spinoza, Nietzsche, Heisenberg, Schroedinger and Bohm are engaged in "new age mumbo jumbo"? . . . You might want to slow down and be a little less quick to dismiss something when you don't understand it.

 

[Troublemane]

QM is a scientific theory which permits highly accurate predictions of outcomes of various subatomic phenomena. What we are here debating is what does it say (if anything) about Mind and Spirit. I am saying QM cant tell you beanz about the mind, thats the realm of philosophy.

Thats the position I am taking.

 

[Surya Deva]

Women of reason,

This is the cutting edge of quantum physics. I really suggest you read what some of the most influencial QM scientists are saying. I actually mean the biggest scientists in the field: Bohm, Schrodeinger, Heisenberg. Spirituality has returned in a very big way in science. It is no longer believed reality is a material thing, now the fundamental belief is that reality is made of something immateral and consciousness is very much intertwined with reality. Indeed this is what phenomenologists have been saying for quite a whole as well. There is no existence without there being a conscious observer.

I also suggest taking a look at the field of parapsychology which is becoming a lot more accepted by mainstream science today. There is a very fundamental shift taking place in the scientific worldview. QM set the ball rolling; superstring theory is acclerating it.

 

[Surya Deva]

I predict materialism will soon be dead just like flat earth I am will do everything I can in my life to make sure the nails in its coffin are firmly in place, and it is buried so deep, that it shall never be revisisted again, except as history on how primitive we were.

 

[Troublemane]

LoL! Here here!:clap

The world should be done with all "flat earth" models by now, but for some reason keeps trying to crush all of reality down to a single level: ---the physical. The lowest level of existence possible, flatland...
And we wonder why the world is in such turmoil?:angel2:

 

[doppelganger]

I am saying QM cant tell you beanz about the mind, thats the realm of philosophy.

Thats the position I am taking.

QM partially reveals the activity of mind in the way we experience reality, but it doesn't explain the mind. And "spirit" is a sloppy word usually full of superstitious and psychological baggage that we would probably be better off avoiding at this point.

 

[Troublemane]

QM partially reveals the activity of mind in the way we experience reality, but it doesn't explain the mind.

True. Still Im not convinced that the "observer effect" isnt just a delusion. I undertand that Bell's inequality has more or less proven the inherent nonlocality of all quantum interactions, but when the music stops and the particles "condense out" of potentiality, the results are completely random.

I think once we get a complete theory that combines both relativity and QM, we'll find out whats happening there. Like maybe the particles are travelling so fast (near light speed) that space and time shrink to nothing, relative to them the universe becomes a single point. So of course you can have 2 particles that are quantum entangled. Until they hit something (a detector) THEN they stop moving so fast and VIOLA!---they become specific things again. Until then they move like waves.

Its just a theory though.

 

[doppelganger]

True. Still Im not convinced that the "observer effect" isnt just a delusion. I undertand that Bell's inequality has more or less proven the inherent nonlocality of all quantum interactions, but when the music stops and the particles "condense out" of potentiality, the results are completely random.

And it could be something as fundamental as the interior phenomenology or logic of causation being bass ackwards.

 

[logician]

"There is no existence without there being a conscious observer."

A proposal I've been stewing over a while, a tough nut to crack.