Accept both Qur'an and Bible

[mckenna36]

It's hard for me to define what is my Religion because all my beliefs come from what I deduced by research. There is still plenty of research ahead of me so many of my beliefs can still change but I am wondering if there is any group I can relate to at this point. Group who have similiar(not necessarily the same) beliefs like I do.

I believe in Abrahamic God and both the Bible and the Qur'an. However, unlike majority of muslims I dont focus in my believe so strongly on prophets but focus more on a God. I believe prophets were just a tool of God and societies made such a big deal of it for political reasons. To distinguish from another societies, to motivate soldiers during wars with other tribes etc. So basically I believe that Jews, Christians and Muslims should pray and celebrate together and if needed discuss what is right and what is not. I don't think that denial of one of the prophets makes you unbeliever if they were just humans. All of them send a similiar message so societies resposibility is to decode that message and not excommunicate others because they believe that Jesus was Son of God and we don't(However this should be of course discussed in the seek for the truth).

Another point that is important for me is a belief that unfortunatelly all Holy Books might be(not necessarily were) influenced by the humans(and that's where I think differences between them comes from).

Also don't mistake me to be kind of liberal muslim who think we should just love everybody as this is main message and that's it. I do believe that we should obey whatever we deduced from the Holy Books no matter how harsh is the rule as this is what God commanded.

I guess there might be an Sufi Order or something like this that more or less fits in my believies but I haven't came across any yet. Do you have any idea is there any group I can relate to?

 

[Lyndon]

As to accepting that the Old Testament writers are inspired By Allah, you can learn from the Old Testament, Of the 4 Gospels I would recommend Luke, and nothing else in the New Testament, Paul was a heretic and blasphemer to both Muslim and Jews, and Paul probably had something to do with the translation of the gospels, so they cannot be trusted, if it sounds like Jesus it probably is, but if its some crazy, I am God worship me, Its not Jesus, be careful. Prophets are not "tool" of Allah. They are pure hearted men AND women that try so hard to be good and close to ALLAH, that they come to the place where they here Allah speak to them, instruct them, even some Allah reveals the future to. They are not perfect they make mistakes, and not everything they say comes straight from Allah, some of it is their own ideas, and Allah would never say that, so again use your best judgement, and most of all Pray for guidance.

 

[budha3]

Muslims and Christians both have something to offer to our understanding of God. It is also incorrect to call Paul a heretic, because Paul's experiences with God were a result of what we call today an "out of body experience" Dr Raymond Moody (Life after Life) was the first to explore after death experiences. When you understand what Dr Moody was talking about in his book , you will be able to understand where Paul was coming from (chapter 15 Corinthians) Also being "pure in heart" means that you are serious, or sincere" Being pure in heart is so powerful that it could lead to actually seeing God himself

 

[nazz]

It's hard for me to define what is my Religion because all my beliefs come from what I deduced by research. There is still plenty of research ahead of me so many of my beliefs can still change but I am wondering if there is any group I can relate to at this point. Group who have similiar(not necessarily the same) beliefs like I do.

I believe in Abrahamic God and both the Bible and the Qur'an. However, unlike majority of muslims I dont focus in my believe so strongly on prophets but focus more on a God. I believe prophets were just a tool of God and societies made such a big deal of it for political reasons. To distinguish from another societies, to motivate soldiers during wars with other tribes etc. So basically I believe that Jews, Christians and Muslims should pray and celebrate together and if needed discuss what is right and what is not. I don't think that denial of one of the prophets makes you unbeliever if they were just humans. All of them send a similiar message so societies resposibility is to decode that message and not excommunicate others because they believe that Jesus was Son of God and we don't(However this should be of course discussed in the seek for the truth).

Another point that is important for me is a belief that unfortunatelly all Holy Books might be(not necessarily were) influenced by the humans(and that's where I think differences between them comes from).

Also don't mistake me to be kind of liberal muslim who think we should just love everybody as this is main message and that's it. I do believe that we should obey whatever we deduced from the Holy Books no matter how harsh is the rule as this is what God commanded.

I guess there might be an Sufi Order or something like this that more or less fits in my believies but I haven't came across any yet. Do you have any idea is there any group I can relate to?

Bahai's?

 

[mckenna36]

Thank you for your answers!

As to accepting that the Old Testament writers are inspired By Allah, you can learn from the Old Testament, Of the 4 Gospels I would recommend Luke, and nothing else in the New Testament, Paul was a heretic and blasphemer to both Muslim and Jews, and Paul probably had something to do with the translation of the gospels, so they cannot be trusted, if it sounds like Jesus it probably is, but if its some crazy, I am God worship me, Its not Jesus, be careful. Prophets are not "tool" of Allah. They are pure hearted men AND women that try so hard to be good and close to ALLAH, that they come to the place where they here Allah speak to them, instruct them, even some Allah reveals the future to. They are not perfect they make mistakes, and not everything they say comes straight from Allah, some of it is their own ideas, and Allah would never say that, so again use your best judgement, and most of all Pray for guidance.

I will really take under consideration what you told. I also had feeling that the New Testament is the most affected Holy Book. It seems I am not the only one. BTW your answer tells me that your beliefs are somehow close to mine. Are they?

Nazz:
I think Bahai's have some really interesting concepts but then again many of the concepts are very far from what I believe in. It looks like they selectively choose what they liked in other religions. I am much closer to Jews, Christians and Muslims than Bahaists but of course they believe in same God so I think they fit in my definition of faithful man. They are a bit like those I mentioned in the one before last paragraph

 

[Lyndon]

I don't know one way or the other, its not important that our beliefs be similar, just that you research your beliefs and sincerely do the best you can to live a good life because of it. For instance I accept that you can still be a good, moral person without a strong belief in God, but faith in God, is big benefit, because its give you strong motivation to live a good life.

 

[Smart_Guy]

Welcome aboard

As far as I know, like that you covered what matters the most; believing in God. Everything else can come later and anything can be forgiven if you are doing your best or if you don't know if an act done was wrong.

Also, by accepting Islam in its basic form, God forgives every single sin done and you become as innocent as a new born.

This is what I believe as a Muslim.

 

[fschmidt]

Do you keep the Sabbath?

 

[Knight of Albion]

A very warm welcome to the forum, dear McKenna.

As to what religious category you fall into. Does it matter? It's just a label.
Life is a continuum and all are subject to universal law no matter what faith they do or don't subscribe to.

 

[DawudTalut]

Peace be on you. Welcome.

 

[Jordan Kurecki]

It's hard for me to define what is my Religion because all my beliefs come from what I deduced by research. There is still plenty of research ahead of me so many of my beliefs can still change but I am wondering if there is any group I can relate to at this point. Group who have similiar(not necessarily the same) beliefs like I do.

I believe in Abrahamic God and both the Bible and the Qur'an. However, unlike majority of muslims I dont focus in my believe so strongly on prophets but focus more on a God. I believe prophets were just a tool of God and societies made such a big deal of it for political reasons. To distinguish from another societies, to motivate soldiers during wars with other tribes etc. So basically I believe that Jews, Christians and Muslims should pray and celebrate together and if needed discuss what is right and what is not. I don't think that denial of one of the prophets makes you unbeliever if they were just humans. All of them send a similiar message so societies resposibility is to decode that message and not excommunicate others because they believe that Jesus was Son of God and we don't(However this should be of course discussed in the seek for the truth).

Another point that is important for me is a belief that unfortunatelly all Holy Books might be(not necessarily were) influenced by the humans(and that's where I think differences between them comes from).

Also don't mistake me to be kind of liberal muslim who think we should just love everybody as this is main message and that's it. I do believe that we should obey whatever we deduced from the Holy Books no matter how harsh is the rule as this is what God commanded.

I guess there might be an Sufi Order or something like this that more or less fits in my believies but I haven't came across any yet. Do you have any idea is there any group I can relate to?

Questions for Muslims | ReligiousForums.com

 

[Jordan Kurecki]

It's hard for me to define what is my Religion because all my beliefs come from what I deduced by research. There is still plenty of research ahead of me so many of my beliefs can still change but I am wondering if there is any group I can relate to at this point. Group who have similiar(not necessarily the same) beliefs like I do.

I believe in Abrahamic God and both the Bible and the Qur'an. However, unlike majority of muslims I dont focus in my believe so strongly on prophets but focus more on a God. I believe prophets were just a tool of God and societies made such a big deal of it for political reasons. To distinguish from another societies, to motivate soldiers during wars with other tribes etc. So basically I believe that Jews, Christians and Muslims should pray and celebrate together and if needed discuss what is right and what is not. I don't think that denial of one of the prophets makes you unbeliever if they were just humans. All of them send a similiar message so societies resposibility is to decode that message and not excommunicate others because they believe that Jesus was Son of God and we don't(However this should be of course discussed in the seek for the truth).

Another point that is important for me is a belief that unfortunatelly all Holy Books might be(not necessarily were) influenced by the humans(and that's where I think differences between them comes from).

Also don't mistake me to be kind of liberal muslim who think we should just love everybody as this is main message and that's it. I do believe that we should obey whatever we deduced from the Holy Books no matter how harsh is the rule as this is what God commanded.

I guess there might be an Sufi Order or something like this that more or less fits in my believies but I haven't came across any yet. Do you have any idea is there any group I can relate to?

Do you really think that God would give us a holy books, and then allow them to be corrupted and influenced by humans?

Don't you think it is God's will for us to have something we can point to and KNOW that they are his words for us.

With that being said, the Quran and the bible cannot be both be, one of them can, but they contradict each other.

Read the bible, the 4 gospels, especially the teachings of Jesus (the one in the bible), his words are powerful.

I think it's also important for you to realize that the bible talks about Satan being a deciever, and that he can transform himself into an angel of light. Satan likes to counterfeit the truth, and I believe he does the same thing with God's words, there are many counterfeits that claim to be the word of God.

Satan has also created many counterfeit figures calling them "Jesus"

For example, the Jesus of the Bible is not the Jesus of the Quran, they are two very different characters, the sames goes for the Mormon Jesus, and the Jesus of the Jehova's Witnesses.

Jesus said that if you seek ye shall find, and if you really want to find spiritual truth, then you will be able to, but you must be willing to accept that everyone you have believed may be a lie or wrong.

I think the big issue with a lot of people is that they often will found their beliefs based on how it impacts them receiving pleasure, and making them feel good.

Spiritual truth is not dependent upon what makes us feel good or gives us pleasure, in fact Spiritual truth is sometimes hard to swallow, For example, I was a drug addict for a long time, and drug use is condemned by God in the Bible, So for a long time I rejected Christianity because it "rained on my parade". Many people do this.

I believe if you will ask God to show you the truth, that he will, but many people don't want truth, because truth is not what they like. many people remain willingly self deceived.

hope this helps you.

 

[Woodrow LI]

Do you really think that God would give us a holy books, and then allow them to be corrupted and influenced by humans?

One need only look at the different books of the Bible that have been considered canonical throughout the centuries.
A few examples:
The Gospel of Thomas
The Gospel of Peter
The Gospel of Mary
Those Gospels were found in the early versions of the Bible, but have vanished from most of the later bibles.
The revelation of John
this was not added until the year 419 when some churches, not all, accepted it. It is still not accepted by the Orthodox, Coptic, Nestorian churches among others and the Catholic Church considers it to be questionable. The only thing theologians agree upon is the author of Revelations and the Author of the Gospel of John are 2 different people.

Then there are changes that have been added through out the ages. The most famous being the story of Jesus saving the adulteress. that is well known to be a fabricated story that did not appear in the Gospel of John until the Latin Vulgate was written in the 4th century.

The bible has changed often and today's Bible probably would not be recognized by the early Christians.

Don't you think it is God's will for us to have something we can point to and KNOW that they are his words for us.

Yes, which is why the Qur'an was sent. the Qur'an is not a new revelation, it contains all the old scriptures with the changes removed. Written in a condensed easy to understand format

With that being said, the Quran and the bible cannot be both be, one of them can, but they contradict each other.

True, the Qur'an removes the errors contained in the Bible

Read the bible, the 4 gospels, especially the teachings of Jesus (the one in the bible), his words are powerful.

True the majority of the Quotes of Jesus in the Gospels do appear to be remnants of the Injil (The Gospel of Jesus) and are true. However it is difficult to tell which are actual quotes and which are fabrications added by the Bible authors

I think it's also important for you to realize that the bible talks about Satan being a deciever, and that he can transform himself into an angel of light. Satan likes to counterfeit the truth, and I believe he does the same thing with God's words, there are many counterfeits that claim to be the word of God.

True and Paul is probably the best example. He changed Christianity from following Jesus to worshiping Jesus

Satan has also created many counterfeit figures calling them "Jesus".

See Above

For example, the Jesus of the Bible is not the Jesus of the Quran, they are two very different characters, the sames goes for the Mormon Jesus, and the Jesus of the Jehova's Witnesses.

Agreed, the Qur'an does contain the corrected description of Jesus

Jesus said that if you seek ye shall find, and if you really want to find spiritual truth, then you will be able to, but you must be willing to accept that everyone you have believed may be a lie or wrong.

I seached for 45 years as a Christian and do believe Jesus led me to find the error of Christianity. I am a Muslim because I love Jesus.

I think the big issue with a lot of people is that they often will found their beliefs based on how it impacts them receiving pleasure, and making them feel good.

I loved being a Christian, I absolutly was certain the "Holy Spirit" filled me when I preached in tongues.
I loved feeling filled with the Holy spirit, I loved preaching love of Jesus, I loved leading the lost to Jesus. But it was all deception and I had to finally admit I was in error although my heart wanted me to stay Christian.
It was very painful to leave what I loved and believed, but the truth set me free and gave me strength

Spiritual truth is not dependent upon what makes us feel good or gives us pleasure, in fact Spiritual truth is sometimes hard to swallow, For example, I was a drug addict for a long time, and drug use is condemned by God in the Bible, So for a long time I rejected Christianity because it "rained on my parade". Many people do this.

I agree that is true. I was a Christian for 45 years and the feeling made it very difficult to break loose. It was like leaving any physical addiction.

I believe if you will ask God to show you the truth, that he will, but many people don't want truth, because truth is not what they like. many people remain willingly self deceived.
hope this helps you.

It took me a long time and many prayers to finally ask. But God and Jesus did lead me to the truth

 

[mckenna36]

Welcome aboard

As far as I know, like that you covered what matters the most; believing in God. Everything else can come later and anything can be forgiven if you are doing your best or if you don't know if an act done was wrong.

Also, by accepting Islam in its basic form, God forgives every single sin done and you become as innocent as a new born.

This is what I believe as a Muslim.

Thank you! Unfortunatelly the thing is that I do not agree with some fundamental principles of the main schools of Islam. I do accept Allah but to become a Muslim you have to accept Allah, praise of Muhammad and Qur'an as a pure world of Allah. I don't think I can relate to that. If I am wrong I can only hope that this will be forgiven.

A very warm welcome to the forum, dear McKenna.

As to what religious category you fall into. Does it matter? It's just a label.
Life is a continuum and all are subject to universal law no matter what faith they do or don't subscribe to.

It's the least important thing in seeking for the true but it still be good to know that you are not alone in what you think.

Do you really think that God would give us a holy books, and then allow them to be corrupted and influenced by humans?

Don't you think it is God's will for us to have something we can point to and KNOW that they are his words for us.

I actually do believe that God would allow humanity to destroy His words because he gave us free will. He also gave us His words but it was our choice as a creations with free will what will we do with those words. And I think that humanity might spoiled His words.

I think the big issue with a lot of people is that they often will found their beliefs based on how it impacts them receiving pleasure, and making them feel good.

Spiritual truth is not dependent upon what makes us feel good or gives us pleasure, in fact Spiritual truth is sometimes hard to swallow, For example, I was a drug addict for a long time, and drug use is condemned by God in the Bible, So for a long time I rejected Christianity because it "rained on my parade". Many people do this.

I believe if you will ask God to show you the truth, that he will, but many people don't want truth, because truth is not what they like. many people remain willingly self deceived.

hope this helps you.

I agree with that message in 100%. I am researching about religion to not be this kind of person

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

All muslims believe the Book revealed to Moses and the Book revealed to Jesus were Books from Allah. We believed in the revelations.
So we believe in Torah and the Gospel revealed to Musa and Isa peace be upon them.
As for prophets, we believe in all of them. Rejecting one prophet is like rejecting all prophets.


Welcome on board Mc
And i agree, we must focuss on Allah/God/Elohim/Alaha alone. Worship none but Him.

 

[Woodrow LI]

Thank you! Unfortunatelly the thing is that I do not agree with some fundamental principles of the main schools of Islam. I do accept Allah but to become a Muslim you have to accept Allah, praise of Muhammad and Qur'an as a pure world of Allah. I don't think I can relate to that. If I am wrong I can only hope that this will be forgiven.

It is good to be a searcher. We all are responsible for our beliefs and therefore have a responsibility to verify all things.

The obligations of a Muslim are the 5 pillars of Islam. In their order of importance they are

5 pillars of Islam

1) The Testimony of Faith:
The testimony of faith is saying with conviction, “La ilaha illa Allah, Muhammadur rasoolu Allah.” This saying means “There is no true god (deity) but God (Allah) and Muhammad is the Messenger (Prophet) of God.” The first part, “There is no true god but God,” means that none has the right to be worshiped but God alone, and that God has neither partner nor son. This testimony of faith is called the Shahada, a simple formula which should be said with conviction in order to convert to Islam . The testimony of faith is the most important pillar of Islam.

2) Prayer:
Muslims perform five prayers a day. Each prayer does not take more than a few minutes to perform. Prayer in Islam is a direct link between the worshipper and God. There are no intermediaries between God and the worshiper.
In prayer, a person feels inner happiness, peace, and comfort, and that God is pleased with him or her. The Prophet Muhammad said: {Bilal, call (the people) to prayer, let us be comforted by it.}2 Bilal was one of Muhammad’s companions who was charged to call the people to prayers.
Prayers are performed at dawn, noon, mid-afternoon, sunset, and night. A Muslim may pray almost anywhere, such as in fields, offices, factories, or universities.

3) Giving Zakat (Support of the Needy):
All things belong to God, and wealth is therefore held by human beings in trust. The original meaning of the word zakat is both ‘purification’ and ‘growth.’ Giving zakat means ‘giving a specified percentage on certain properties to certain classes of needy people.’ The percentage which is due on gold, silver, and cash funds that have reached the amount of about 85 grams of gold and held in possession for one lunar year is two and a half percent. Our possessions are purified by setting aside a small portion for those in need, and, like the pruning of plants, this cutting back balances and encourages new growth.
A person may also give as much as he or she pleases as voluntary alms or charity.

4) Fasting the Month of Ramadan:
Every year in the month of Ramadan,4 all Muslims fast from dawn until sundown, abstaining from food, drink, and sexual relations.
Although the fast is beneficial to health, it is regarded principally as a method of spiritual self-purification. By cutting oneself off from worldly comforts, even for a short time, a fasting person gains true sympathy with those who go hungry, as well as growth in his or her spiritual life.

5) The Pilgrimage to Makkah:
The annual pilgrimage (Hajj) to Makkah is an obligation once in a lifetime for those who are physically and financially able to perform it. About two million people go to Makkah each year from every corner of the globe. Although Makkah is always filled with visitors, the annual Hajj is performed in the twelfth month of the Islamic calendar. Male pilgrims wear special simple clothes which strip away distinctions of class and culture so that all stand equal before God.

Fundamental Beliefs
Muslims have six main beliefs.

Belief in Allah as the one and only God

Belief in angels

Belief in the holy books

Belief in the Prophets...

Belief in the Day of Judgement...

Belief in Allah is all Knowing...

While we do have respect for Muhammad(saaws) and all Prophets(PBUT) we do not pray to them nor worship them. We acknowledge Muhammad(saaws) as being the final prophet in testimony that there will be no new Prophet after him. the Qur"an is the completion of all the revelations and does not replace them

The minimum requirement to be a Muslim is to follow the first pillar. For the remainder we just do the best we can in accordance with our knowledge and ability.

 

[Smart_Guy]

Thank you! Unfortunatelly the thing is that I do not agree with some fundamental principles of the main schools of Islam. I do accept Allah but to become a Muslim you have to accept Allah, praise of Muhammad and Qur'an as a pure world of Allah. I don't think I can relate to that. If I am wrong I can only hope that this will be forgiven.

I'm not God to judge, but I believe that all of that can be forgiven at some point. God knows what's in your heart and He understands how you feel. All you have to do is believe in Him and be honest and righteous in your beliefs and actions. I believe God is just and won't expect of us what's above our capacity.

Bless you

 

[Jordan Kurecki]

Questions for Muslims | ReligiousForums.com

I really would appreciate some response to this thread.

 

[Woodrow LI]

I really would appreciate some response to this thread.

I have gone back and begun answering your questions. However I feel it would have been better if each question had been a separate thread as the questions are not related and each one is worthy of a long discussion in itself

BTW do you have any comments regarding my post--- post number 13--- about 6 posts back

One need only look at the different books of the Bible that have been considered canonical throughout the centuries.
A few examples:
The Gospel of Thomas
The Gospel of Peter
The Gospel of Mary
Those Gospels were found in the early versions of the Bible, but have vanished from most of the later bibles.
The revelation of John
this was not added until the year 419 when some churches, not all, accepted it. It is still not accepted by the Orthodox, Coptic, Nestorian churches among others and the Catholic Church considers it to be questionable. The only thing theologians agree upon is the author of Revelations and the Author of the Gospel of John are 2 different people.

Then there are changes that have been added through out the ages. The most famous being the story of Jesus saving the adulteress. that is well known to be a fabricated story that did not appear in the Gospel of John until the Latin Vulgate was written in the 4th century.

The bible has changed often and today's Bible probably would not be recognized by the early Christians.


Yes, which is why the Qur'an was sent. the Qur'an is not a new revelation, it contains all the old scriptures with the changes removed. Written in a condensed easy to understand format


True, the Qur'an removes the errors contained in the Bible


True the majority of the Quotes of Jesus in the Gospels do appear to be remnants of the Injil (The Gospel of Jesus) and are true. However it is difficult to tell which are actual quotes and which are fabrications added by the Bible authors



True and Paul is probably the best example. He changed Christianity from following Jesus to worshiping Jesus


See Above


Agreed, the Qur'an does contain the corrected description of Jesus


I seached for 45 years as a Christian and do believe Jesus led me to find the error of Christianity. I am a Muslim because I love Jesus.


I loved being a Christian, I absolutly was certain the "Holy Spirit" filled me when I preached in tongues.
I loved feeling filled with the Holy spirit, I loved preaching love of Jesus, I loved leading the lost to Jesus. But it was all deception and I had to finally admit I was in error although my heart wanted me to stay Christian.
It was very painful to leave what I loved and believed, but the truth set me free and gave me strength


I agree that is true. I was a Christian for 45 years and the feeling made it very difficult to break loose. It was like leaving any physical addiction.



It took me a long time and many prayers to finally ask. But God and Jesus did lead me to the truth