Unification
Well-Known Member
For one, your lower nature is perceiving that I am stating that I know Judaism, when in reality... I don't. I am speaking of the scriptures, not Judaism. Judaism and scripture are very separate. Respond, don't react.
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Abrahamic Faiths: If Jesus wasn't the messiah. Who was he?
- Thread starter Mystic-als
- Start date
For one, your lower nature is perceiving that I am stating that I know Judaism, when in reality... I don't. I am speaking of the scriptures, not Judaism. Judaism and scripture are very separate. Respond, don't react.
outhouse
Atheistically
The cool thing Is the real story hidden behind the mythology, is better then the written version.
It also has quite the educational value in that you learn how people manipulate their communities theological needs for their own objectives.
Unification
Well-Known Member
Yeah...it was.[/QUOTE]
Just when one thinks they have seen it all with vain imaginations, and the farthest from truth and reality.... literal food falls from the literal sky in a literal desert.
Unification
Well-Known Member
Harmonious
Well-Known Member
Wow. These two sentences explain your view of reality. Interesting.
I'm not even sure how to address the other post you directed at me in response to the commandment challenge.
Your world view is so very different than mine that I'm not sure how to continue to talk to you.
Maybe I'll come back to you after Shabbat.
CMike
Well-Known Member
Judaism is based on the Jewish scriptures.
Unification
Well-Known Member
They do. Truth: in accord with reality, "that which is."
Anyone can take scriptures, perceive them how they want and create a religion, and call them Judaism scriptures or Christianity scriptures and so forth.
If I may give some advice, use your "Shabbat" day to have a still, open mind and concentrate on the things of "God" and what truth really is, spiritually... Your inner self and God.
Blessings to you.
Moishe3rd
Yehudi
Well, just for giggles - I'll give MHO for the 2008 question - which does indeed conflict with the accepted Torah observant Orthodox position; the Christian position; and the "in general" Jewish position.
Jesus was a mystic. He probably worked on himself to such a degree that he could indeed perform "miracles." But, the "miracles" that he "performed" were for the sake of getting people, Jews in particular, out of their ordinary sense of themselves. He probably wanted to have people, Jews in particular, have a more godlike, spiritual understanding of being Jewish and being human.
He was a mystic in the fine old tradition of mystical guys who created their own new path from an established spiritual teaching.
And, he tried to explain this whole idea to people and they all misunderstood. I mean, who understands a mystic?
He told his disciples several times not to take anything he said literally and to not tell anyone who he really was... But - did they listen? No. Such is the lot of men.
And, such is the power of Faith.
In a faithless, savage, confusing Roman world, when miracles seem to occur in the Name of the "Risen Man," Jesus, the Romans had something to latch onto in their purposeless, meaningless existence.
But, being Romans, they turned Jesus into the Risen Soldier of god.
"Onward Christian soldiers, marching as to war
With the cross of Jesus going on before
Onward then, ye people, join our happy throng
Blend with ours your voices in a triumph song
Christ, the Royal Master, leads against the foe
Forward into battle, see His banners go..."
And, poor Jesus began turning over in his grave as they turned him into a god of Death and Power. He has been re-crucified every day by Christians for the last 1500 years.
Jesus was a mystic. He probably worked on himself to such a degree that he could indeed perform "miracles." But, the "miracles" that he "performed" were for the sake of getting people, Jews in particular, out of their ordinary sense of themselves. He probably wanted to have people, Jews in particular, have a more godlike, spiritual understanding of being Jewish and being human.
He was a mystic in the fine old tradition of mystical guys who created their own new path from an established spiritual teaching.
And, he tried to explain this whole idea to people and they all misunderstood. I mean, who understands a mystic?
He told his disciples several times not to take anything he said literally and to not tell anyone who he really was... But - did they listen? No. Such is the lot of men.
And, such is the power of Faith.
In a faithless, savage, confusing Roman world, when miracles seem to occur in the Name of the "Risen Man," Jesus, the Romans had something to latch onto in their purposeless, meaningless existence.
But, being Romans, they turned Jesus into the Risen Soldier of god.
"Onward Christian soldiers, marching as to war
With the cross of Jesus going on before
Onward then, ye people, join our happy throng
Blend with ours your voices in a triumph song
Christ, the Royal Master, leads against the foe
Forward into battle, see His banners go..."
And, poor Jesus began turning over in his grave as they turned him into a god of Death and Power. He has been re-crucified every day by Christians for the last 1500 years.
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
I don't know who Jesus ''was'' in this context. The OP question presupposes one definition of Messiah, yet jesus spoke of the one that would come after Him!
Does this mean that Jesus wasn't the Messiah? He doesn't seem to think He is the only Messiah, that's for sure. Unless He meant His second coming...is that the same 'Jesus' as He was in the Bible? Why didn't He just say, 'I will return as the second Messiah'?
So, since Jesus didn't even seem to limit Himself to a ''messiah'' label, /unless the one after Him will be God incarnate as well,, why does anyone else?
Does this mean that Jesus wasn't the Messiah? He doesn't seem to think He is the only Messiah, that's for sure. Unless He meant His second coming...is that the same 'Jesus' as He was in the Bible? Why didn't He just say, 'I will return as the second Messiah'?
So, since Jesus didn't even seem to limit Himself to a ''messiah'' label, /unless the one after Him will be God incarnate as well,, why does anyone else?
Unification
Well-Known Member
Let's say that in Judaism and just about all of Christianity, they are waiting and looking for an external God/messiah..one to return to literal Earth and set up shop and a conquering kingdom here. A majority of Christians would say that Jews are still waiting on their Messiah, and that theirs came (Jesus). Yet the irony is that Christians are making the same mistake today, waiting on an external God/messiah to come and set up shop on literal Earth in a conquering kingdom.
When Jesus taught everything completely opposite of the mainstream Christian belief. He stated and made clear, the kingdom comes with no signs and observations, the kingdom is within one and anyone who teaches otherwise, do not follow them. The kingdom is NOT of this world, it's a spiritual kingdom, within the human.
Now let's say God in the Old Testament/Hebrew scriptures wasn't a happy God when people offered up the lame, blind, and sick animal sacrifices. Here comes Jesus, healing the lame, blind, and sick. Were they literal animals being healed? No, the natural human is the carnal animal that needs a messiah, and the messianic seed is one that grows from within the human.
While everyone keeps looking for an external God to come conquer on Earth to destroy his enemies, God does come and conquer on Earth and to destroy his enemies.... God comes in the flesh, manifested in the human body (Earth) to destroy his enemies (sin within ones mind and heart).
Moishe3rd
Yehudi
Let's not say and pretend we did....
(Which is sarcasm for saying that your particular viewpoint had nothing to do with my speculation. Just sayin' ya know?)
Unification
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the response, friend. Many blessings to you.
rosends
Well-Known Member
Why say that if it is inaccurate?
Jews are not waiting for a god, external or otherwise, nor for anyone/thing to "return" anywhere.
If you want to start with a premise, it should be an accurate one so your parallel to modern Christianity would be accurate.
Unification
Well-Known Member
Of course, one cannot "return" if they've never appeared in the first place.
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
The bible is a product of Judaism -- and Xy. It does not stand alone in its own truth -- it presents the truth of its inventors.
Unification
Well-Known Member
The scripture is a product of something beyond natural human awareness.
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
No. It isn't. Since it is a product of humans, by definition, it is not beyond human awareness. We were aware -- we created.
The scriptures (both Judaic and Christian) were written by men, but based on their understanding of God. The messiah was therefore a myth, so Jesus could not have been the messiah. Jesus was the Son of God, whom God created so that anyone who believes that he was the Son of God comes out of separation from God into His Presence. Once we have come into God's Presence, we enjoy relationship with Him. But who can believe this?
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
You're not making any sense.
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
What do you mean, ''who can believe this''? Some people believe this; many don't.