A quick question on philosophical Taoism! :)

[DanielR]

Heyho, sorry for my quick question,

does the Zhuang Zi belong to the canon of philosophical Taoism, or would that already belong more to the religious Taoism?? Hope anyone can help!

Thank you

 

[crossfire]

Heyho, sorry for my quick question,

does the Zhuang Zi belong to the canon of philosophical Taoism, or would that already belong more to the religious Taoism?? Hope anyone can help!

Thank you

Philosophical Taoism. He's also known as Chuang Tzu. His work doesn't have ritual or meditative techniques in it, except in a philosophical context.

 

[DanielR]

Thank You

 

[DanielR]

what role does the I ching play in philosophical Taoism?? it's much older than the Tao te ching? Is Taoism based on the teachings of the I ching??

 

[DreadFish]

The I Ching is very very old. It may have influenced philosophical Taoism. The understanding I have is that the development of "philosophical taoism" came from various writings other than the Lao Tzu (which we call the Tao Te Ching).

 

[crossfire]

what role does the I ching play in philosophical Taoism?? it's much older than the Tao te ching? Is Taoism based on the teachings of the I ching??

You will prolly see a lot more Confucian references to the I Ching than Taoist ones, but the I Ching is so old that it influences so many different aspects of Chinese culture. The Confucians and the Taoists often butted heads, and since the I Ching was so strongly associated with Confucianism, this may be a reason why Lao Tzu and Chuang Tzu don't directly reference it.

 

[DanielR]

Thanks a lot, I find it very interesting that the I ching is even older than some Hindu texts (Upanishads, Vedas ? (not sure))!

 

[DreadFish]

Thanks a lot, I find it very interesting that the I ching is even older than some Hindu texts (Upanishads, Vedas ? (not sure))!

Yeah, I was surprised when I read on Wiki that it dates back to the 3rd and 2nd millennium BC.

 

[crossfire]

what role does the I ching play in philosophical Taoism?? it's much older than the Tao te ching? Is Taoism based on the teachings of the I ching??

In Chuangtzu 1, he does reference the I Ching in a way:

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]IN THE NORTHERN DARKNESS there is a fish and his name is K'un.1 The K'un is so huge I don't know how many thousand li he measures. He changes and becomes a bird whose name is P'eng. The back of the P'eng measures I don't know how many thousand li across and, when he rises up and flies off, his wings are like clouds all over the sky. When the sea begins to move,2 this bird sets off for the southern darkness, which is the Lake of Heaven.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The Universal Harmony3 records various wonders, and it says: "When the P'eng journeys to the southern darkness, the waters are roiled for three thousand li. He beats the whirlwind and rises ninety thousand li, setting off on the sixth month gale." Wavering heat, bits of dust, living things blowing each other about-the sky looks very blue. Is that its real color, or is it because it is so far away and has no end? When the bird looks down, all he sees is blue too.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]If water is not piled up deep enough, it won't have the strength to bear up a big boat. Pour a cup of water into a hollow in the floor and bits of trash will sail on it like boats. But set the cup there and it will stick fast, for the water is too shallow and the boat too large. If wind is not piled up deep enough, it won't have the strength to bear up great wings. Therefore when the P'eng rises ninety thousand li, he must have the wind under him like that. Only then can he mount on the back of the wind, shoulder the blue sky, and nothing can hinder or block him. Only then can he set his eyes to the south.[/FONT]​

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The K'un fish in the north refers to the [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Kūn trigram (the receptive, yin,) and the P'eng bird is the yang.

See Ba gua (The north is on the bottom, and the south is on the top)[/FONT]

 

[DanielR]

Thank you very much , I would give you some frubals but need to spread them more, thanks!