A question to Christians

[nazz]

**Btw, If you believe that the world is only 6,000 years old, then I suppose this question doesn't apply to you.

For the rest of you: I am not a Christian, I am an Indigenous Germanic Polytheist. I have always wondered something about your god and your, for lack of a better word, mythology (not saying that your Lore and Stories are "fake" as the definition of the word "myth" is a story or fable based on culture or spirituality).

For over 50,000 years, Proto-Indo-Europeans had been practicing their polytheistic "pagan" beliefs, all of which were related to each other and descended from one polytheistic belief system in a pantheon coming out of Africa. For a couple hundred thousand years before that, people had been practicing animistic, shamanic, tribal traditions in Africa. It is also theorized that over 1.5 million years ago, when we weren't "homo-sapiens" but our predecessor, homo erectus, started to develop myth, lore and beliefs in gods and spirits.

The bible also explicitly says that anyone who doesn't accept Jesus Christ doesn't enter heaven and, by default, goes to hell. That would mean that 1.5 billion years of people are doomed, simply because they were born in a time when monotheism, at least in the god "Yahweh" hadn't existed. This belief would continue to not exist until hundreds of thousands of years later, somewhere between 2,000 and 600 BC, not to mention that the worship of "Jesus" wasn't actually organized until 300 AD.

If God is so loving, merciful and just, why would he create all of these people for thousands and thousands of years to be simply doomed to Hell, not having the slightest opportunity for salvation, and then when there is the opportunity the people who apparently "need" the salvation are people who weren't raised in a Christian household and were raised with their own set of beliefs and religion, and aren't going to convert unless if a) by forceful conversion and threat of genocide or b) belief in divine intervention, possibly by near death experience?

I suppose what I'm asking is, how can a loving, merciful, just and fair God create millions and millions of souls and people, only to have less than a handful of them not be damned? Why waste the energy? And why create souls just to make them suffer for eternity because they were born in the wrong place, wrong time or both?

Random answers off the top of my head:

Human beings evolved, they were not created
Souls are in a constant process of ascending/descending in this aeon and others
Jesus Christ came to earth when the time was right to rescue all he could from this material realm

Bet you were not expecting those kinds of answers

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Random answers off the top of my head:

Human beings evolved, they were not created
Souls are in a constant process of ascending/descending in this aeon and others
Jesus Christ came to earth when the time was right to rescue all he could from this material realm

Bet you were not expecting those kinds of answers

Go away, Gnostic! You have your own forum!

 

[nazz]

Go away, Gnostic! You have your own forum!

Yeah, but nobody ever visits

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Yeah, but nobody ever visits

I have noticed that it is a bit dead over there. My sympathies.

Which form of Gnosticism do you follow?

 

[nazz]

I have noticed that it is a bit dead over there. My sympathies.

thanks

Which form of Gnosticism do you follow?

My own form

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

thanks

Sure. The Catholic DIR is pretty dead, too, unfortunately.

My own form

Damn. I wanted a Wikipedia page or something. Lol.

 

[Karellia]

**Btw, If you believe that the world is only 6,000 years old, then I suppose this question doesn't apply to you.

For the rest of you: I am not a Christian, I am an Indigenous Germanic Polytheist. I have always wondered something about your god and your, for lack of a better word, mythology (not saying that your Lore and Stories are "fake" as the definition of the word "myth" is a story or fable based on culture or spirituality).

For over 50,000 years, Proto-Indo-Europeans had been practicing their polytheistic "pagan" beliefs, all of which were related to each other and descended from one polytheistic belief system in a pantheon coming out of Africa. For a couple hundred thousand years before that, people had been practicing animistic, shamanic, tribal traditions in Africa. It is also theorized that over 1.5 million years ago, when we weren't "homo-sapiens" but our predecessor, homo erectus, started to develop myth, lore and beliefs in gods and spirits.

The bible also explicitly says that anyone who doesn't accept Jesus Christ doesn't enter heaven and, by default, goes to hell. That would mean that 1.5 billion years of people are doomed, simply because they were born in a time when monotheism, at least in the god "Yahweh" hadn't existed. This belief would continue to not exist until hundreds of thousands of years later, somewhere between 2,000 and 600 BC, not to mention that the worship of "Jesus" wasn't actually organized until 300 AD.

If God is so loving, merciful and just, why would he create all of these people for thousands and thousands of years to be simply doomed to Hell, not having the slightest opportunity for salvation, and then when there is the opportunity the people who apparently "need" the salvation are people who weren't raised in a Christian household and were raised with their own set of beliefs and religion, and aren't going to convert unless if a) by forceful conversion and threat of genocide or b) belief in divine intervention, possibly by near death experience?

I suppose what I'm asking is, how can a loving, merciful, just and fair God create millions and millions of souls and people, only to have less than a handful of them not be damned? Why waste the energy? And why create souls just to make them suffer for eternity because they were born in the wrong place, wrong time or both?

Just as if you asked a question about Hinduism, or pretty much any religion, philosophy or faith, you will get many viewpoints and answers to a question like this.

Only an absolute "Literalist" would agree with your supposition of the incidental 'damning' of these 'pre-Christ' peoples.

Liberal Christians like myself would be inclined to believe that God's love is universal. For many Christian's The Bible is not taken literally in all cases. It is the work of many men. It contains the core teachings and evidence of Jesus' message of love and peace. But it also contains metaphor and myth in some cases. Of course some Christians will disagree vehemently with my vewpoint here, but that is the nature of any religion; rarely will people agree on every aspect.

For me, God's love is available to all in this life.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Liberal Christians like myself would be inclined to believe that God's love is universal. For many Christian's The Bible is not taken literally in all cases. It is the work of many men. It contains the core teachings and evidence of Jesus' message of love and peace. But it also contains metaphor and myth in some cases. Of course some Christians will disagree vehemently with my vewpoint here, but that is the nature of any religion; rarely will people agree on every aspect.

For me, God's love is available to all in this life.

I agree with you!

 

[EyeofOdin]

I have to say, most of these replies surprised me. I grew up in the South West and in The South, where Conservative Protestant Christianity reigns supreme. I guess it's in the nature of a multi-cultural forum to have more liberal/open minded people.

"Only an absolute "Literalist" would agree with your supposition of the incidental 'damning' of these 'pre-Christ' peoples."

Well pretty much 95% of my experiences with Christians have been with, how you say, "literalists" and fundamentalists.

 

[Pegg]

I suppose what I'm asking is, how can a loving, merciful, just and fair God create millions and millions of souls and people, only to have less than a handful of them not be damned? Why waste the energy? And why create souls just to make them suffer for eternity because they were born in the wrong place, wrong time or both?

what you've described does reflect what many christians believe and teach...however, that is not what the bible teaches.

The bible explains that mankind and animal kind are all 'souls'
Ge 2:7“the man came to be a living soul.”

Gen 1:24*And God went on to say: “Let the earth put forth living souls according to their kinds, domestic animal and moving animal and wild beast of the earth according to its kind.”

So all living creatures are 'souls'. We dont 'have' souls, we ARE souls. And the bible says that when the soul dies, it returns to the ground: Gen 3:19""...For dust you are and to dust you will return.”
Job 34:15 All flesh will expire together, And earthling man himself will return to the very dust.
Ecclesiastes 3:20 All are going to one place. They have all come to be from the dust, and they are all returning to the dust

The bible says that when a soul dies, it is no longer conscious of anything at all: Ecclesiates 9:5*For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all...'



So if we take the bibles teaching as the basis of our own, there is no eternal torment for the dead. If someone is not conscious, it means they cannot think or feel or suffer.... so how can they experience 'torment'? They can't.


However, what the bible does tell us is that all who have died will be brought back to life on earth as the souls they once were.

Isaiah 26:19*“Your dead ones will live. A corpse of mine—they will rise up. Awake and cry out joyfully, YOU residents in the dust! For your dew is as the dew of mallows, and the earth itself will let even those impotent in death drop [in birth]

This resurrection of all who have died is made possible through Christ Jesus. He said of himself: John 11;25*Jesus said to her: “I am the resurrection and the life. He that exercises faith in me, even though he dies, will come to life...'
But this doesnt mean that only those who exercise faith in Christ will be resurrected because that promise God made in the book of Isaiah was spoken to people who lived hundreds of years before Christ even came. So God has already promised the people of the ancient past that they will be brought back to life.

So yes, God certainly is merciful and his plan is to bring back all who have died. They will then be given the opportunity to live under his loving guidance and care in a world governed by him.

that is what the bible teaches. But you wont find many Christians teaching these things because they take their teachings from human philosophies and false religious ideas.

 

[Thana]

what you've described does reflect what many christians believe and teach...however, that is not what the bible teaches.

The bible explains that mankind and animal kind are all 'souls'
Ge 2:7“the man came to be a living soul.”

Gen 1:24*And God went on to say: “Let the earth put forth living souls according to their kinds, domestic animal and moving animal and wild beast of the earth according to its kind.”

So all living creatures are 'souls'. We dont 'have' souls, we ARE souls. And the bible says that when the soul dies, it returns to the ground: Gen 3:19""...For dust you are and to dust you will return.”
Job 34:15 All flesh will expire together, And earthling man himself will return to the very dust.
Ecclesiastes 3:20 All are going to one place. They have all come to be from the dust, and they are all returning to the dust

The bible says that when a soul dies, it is no longer conscious of anything at all: Ecclesiates 9:5*For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all...'



So if we take the bibles teaching as the basis of our own, there is no eternal torment for the dead. If someone is not conscious, it means they cannot think or feel or suffer.... so how can they experience 'torment'? They can't.


However, what the bible does tell us is that all who have died will be brought back to life on earth as the souls they once were.

Isaiah 26:19*“Your dead ones will live. A corpse of mine—they will rise up. Awake and cry out joyfully, YOU residents in the dust! For your dew is as the dew of mallows, and the earth itself will let even those impotent in death drop [in birth]

This resurrection of all who have died is made possible through Christ Jesus. He said of himself: John 11;25*Jesus said to her: “I am the resurrection and the life. He that exercises faith in me, even though he dies, will come to life...'
But this doesnt mean that only those who exercise faith in Christ will be resurrected because that promise God made in the book of Isaiah was spoken to people who lived hundreds of years before Christ even came. So God has already promised the people of the ancient past that they will be brought back to life.

So yes, God certainly is merciful and his plan is to bring back all who have died. They will then be given the opportunity to live under his loving guidance and care in a world governed by him.

that is what the bible teaches. But you wont find many Christians teaching these things because they take their teachings from human philosophies and false religious ideas.

This is a really interesting belief, But I'm curious, If this is what you truly believe, Then what is your opinion on all the passages about hell?


Revelation 21:8
But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars--their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."

Matthew 25:41
"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels."

 

[Pegg]

This is a really interesting belief, But I'm curious, If this is what you truly believe, Then what is your opinion on all the passages about hell?


Revelation 21:8
But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars--their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."

Matthew 25:41
"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels."

Hi Thana,

the term 'hell' refers to the grave in the original language of the bible. Sheol is mostly translated into the english word hell and it means grave in hebrew.

So when i read a passage about hell, I know its speaking about the individuals 'death'.

To burn in hell for eternity simply means to be completely destroyed forever and remain in the grave. Hence, hell is the end of life...its complete destruction.

 

[EyeofOdin]

@Thana, Meanings to words among different tongues and to different times can be very... well... different. I actually see his point and I'll explain why.

Most of the New Testament is written in Ancient Greek. The Ancient Greek word that was translated into the word "Hell" was Hades (Αἵδης; Aïdēs). However Αἵδης has multiple meanings, "the underworld", "the grave", "Hell" and "Hades" or "God of Death". It's very possible that there is a mistranslation in the verses talking about "Hell".

On the subject of linguistics, it is theorized that actually most of the bible is either mistranslated or certain contexts aren't taken into consideration. Take the word αρσενοκοίτης (arsenokoites) which is translated to "homosexual" in the New Testament, however this use wasn't commonly applied to homosexuality until much later and it was usually by Conservative Romans or Christians than it was by Native Greeks, as Greeks didn't differentiate sexuality and viewed sexuality as less of a "I like men" or "I like women" and more of a "I like you", if that makes any sense. Native Greeks used this term applied to slavery and male sex workers. It comes as a contraction from the words ἄρσην (Arsen) meaning "adult man" and κοίτης (Koites) means "bed" or "bedstead". So αρσενοκοίτης literally means "man of the bed chamber". This usually referred to male prostitutes or pimps.

Another great example is the famous verse "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live". Seems straightforward, until you find out that the Hebrew word that "witch" is referring to doesn't actually mean witch! It means poisoner. It only was translated to witch (mind you from Hebrew to Greek, from Greek to Latin, from Latin to German and French and then from German and French to English, in that order) during the witch craze in England where there was crazy folklore and rumors about witches and warlocks and pagan magicians running around that all they do is cast spells and brew potions to kill and poison people. So even though the medieval idea of a witch and the archaic Hebrew idea of a witch were vastly different and the languages are vastly different, the people translating and writing the bible didn't take the culture of that time into consideration and didn't even take the language into proper considerations (at least not well enough to do a decent translation) to see the true meaning of the original writer.

Linguistics and comparative culture are a tricky thing, especially if you don't actually know the language or way of life.

 

[WordSponge]

Hello,

Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, David, the Prophets, Jesus their maker (God)
and the Apostles and converts are all Spiritual.
The 'danger' to others with Christianity and the writings of Spiritual people
is that the Spirit of GOD is ESSENTIAL in the life of the individual.
Jesus had the Spirit after baptism, the Apostles had the Spirit after Pentecost,
the converts got the Spirit after Baptism calling on Jesus
and a person with the Spirit passing on the Gift.

At present Jesus is giving the Gift directly after baptism.
Jesus is not where people think that he is or should be.

Holy means uncommon. Holy brethren = uncommon brethren.

Without the Spirit we have 'human opinions' and 'confounding' as predicted.

I have been on both sides BUT, thank GOD, I was always respectable to GOD and his team,
even to the people who were trying to make my brain into mush.

I found Jesus and his Father through my own dedication and their graciousness/ goodness.

To try and simplify GOD's present work:
We are clay owned by GOD and Jesus is the factory.
GOD gives us to Jesus (the factory), to make us into, (his specifications), what he is pleased with.

The following Scriptures explain the same:
Eph.1
[5] Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself,
according to the pleasure of his good will/ goodness to us
[6] To the praise of the glory of his (MULTIPLE) grace,
wherein he hath >> made us acceptable in (through the factory =) the beloved. (Jesus his Hand)

John.2
[21] Jesus saith unto her,
Woman, believe me, the hour comes,
when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. (ENDED)
[22] Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship:
for salvation is of the (Spiritual) Jews.
[23] But the hour cometh, and now is,
when the true/ genuine worshippers
shall worship the Father in (THEIR) spirit (individually and internally) and in truth:
for the Father seeks (specifies for) such to worship him.
[24] God is (a?) Spirit and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

This NEW creation doesn't need to worship GOD and Jesus in groups, like in the Temple,
but individually and spontaneously
as the Spirit gives surges of happiness for different reasons.
All things are and were made, by Jesus, the factory, for GOD's pleasure. Rev.4:11

A Great Job and real happiness >>>

Contacting Jesus is through correct baptism, calling on his name,
from under the water, (GOD’s foolishness)
that every one argues about.

As an individual I did not have to get anyone's permission to obey the Christian Teachings.

The majority of the human creation underestimates GOD and Jesus' knowledge about each individual.

The Everlasting Team:
We >> the Apostles >> Jesus and CORRECT baptism and the Spirit .... GOD, Grace >>>
We missed the mark and we need help from GOD's provided helper = Jesus.

For anyone one who can HONESTLY admit failure, going to Jesus and being made, by the factory, is easy.
This lesson below is the CORRECT 'loser' approach to Christ.

Luke.18.
[10] Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
[11] The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself,
GOD, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are,
extortionist, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
[12] I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
[13] And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven,
but (like a bitter loser) smote upon his breast, saying:
GOD be merciful to me a sinner.
[14] I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other:
for every one that exalts himself shall be abased
and he who humbles himself shall be exalted.
Pss.147
[11] The LORD (the Father) >> takes pleasure in them who fear him,
in those who >> hope in his mercy.

We are inundated with >> presumptuous heretics….People with integrity will make it to Jesus.

Pss.19
[13] Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins
Let them not have dominion over me.
Then I shall be upright and I shall be innocent from the Great Transgression.

TRUTH is not well TOLERATED.
Fight your way out.
The Christians wrote in code.
We may have to resort to codes as well until the LORD comes.

Read about how Jesus dealt with the heretics (Pharisees, Priests, Elders etc.) of his day
and be encouraged.
He will be back physically.

Keep well.

 

[nazz]

Hi Thana,

the term 'hell' refers to the grave in the original language of the bible. Sheol is mostly translated into the english word hell and it means grave in hebrew.

So when i read a passage about hell, I know its speaking about the individuals 'death'.

To burn in hell for eternity simply means to be completely destroyed forever and remain in the grave. Hence, hell is the end of life...its complete destruction.

But Pegg, Sheol/Hades is only one of the words translated as "hell". There is also Gehenna and Tartaros and neither refer to the grave.

 

[Pegg]

But Pegg, Sheol/Hades is only one of the words translated as "hell". There is also Gehenna and Tartaros and neither refer to the grave.

Gehenna is incorrectly translated as hell. Gehenna was a 'place' outside of Jerusalem called the 'valley of hinnom'. The Jewish commentator David Kimhi (1160-1235?), commented on Psalm 27:13 and says: “And it is a place in the land adjoining Jerusalem, and it is a loathsome place, and they throw there unclean things and carcasses. Also there was a continual fire there to burn the unclean things and the bones of the carcasses. Hence, the judgment of the wicked ones is called parabolically Gehinnom.”


Tartarus is only used in reference to the sinful angels....they are said to exist in 'pits of dense darkness'.... so Tartarus should never be translated as hell because its not a physical place, its a 'condition' of mental darkness.

 

[Katzpur]

If God is so loving, merciful and just, why would he create all of these people for thousands and thousands of years to be simply doomed to Hell, not having the slightest opportunity for salvation, and then when there is the opportunity the people who apparently "need" the salvation are people who weren't raised in a Christian household and were raised with their own set of beliefs and religion, and aren't going to convert unless if a) by forceful conversion and threat of genocide or b) belief in divine intervention, possibly by near death experience?

According to LDS (Mormon) Christian theology, He didn't. That's why Mormonism provides such a refreshing perspective to the whole Christian theological belief set.

 

[nazz]

Gehenna is incorrectly translated as hell. Gehenna was a 'place' outside of Jerusalem called the 'valley of hinnom'. The Jewish commentator David Kimhi (1160-1235?), commented on Psalm 27:13 and says: “And it is a place in the land adjoining Jerusalem, and it is a loathsome place, and they throw there unclean things and carcasses. Also there was a continual fire there to burn the unclean things and the bones of the carcasses. Hence, the judgment of the wicked ones is called parabolically Gehinnom.”

This was not the Jewish understanding of Gehenna which was a literal place, sorry.

GEHENNA - JewishEncyclopedia.com

The statement that Gehenna is situated in the valley of Hinnom near Jerusalem, in the "accursed valley" (Enoch, xxvii. 1 et seq.), means simply that it has a gate there. It was in Zion, and had a gate in Jerusalem (Isa. xxxi. 9). It had three gates, one in the wilderness, one in the sea, and one in Jerusalem ('Er. 19a). The gate lies between two palm-trees in the valley of Hinnom, from which smoke is continually rising (ib.). The mouth is narrow, impeding the smoke, but below Gehenna extends indefinitely (Men. 99b). According to one opinion, it is above the firmament, and according to another, behind the dark mountains (Ta'an. 32b). An Arabian pointed out to a scholar the spot in the wilderness where the earth swallowed the sons of Korah (Num. xvi. 31-32), who descended into Gehenna (Sanh. 110b). It is situated deep down in the earth, and is immeasurably large. "The earth is one-sixtieth of the garden, the garden one-sixtieth of Eden [paradise], Eden one-sixtieth of Gehenna; hence the whole world is like a lid for Gehenna. Some say that Gehenna can not be measured" (Pes. 94a). It is divided into seven compartments (Soṭah 10b); a similar view was held by the Babylonians (Jeremias, "Hölle und Paradies bei den Babyloniern," pp. 16 et seq., Leipsic, 1901; Guthe, "Kurzes Bibel-wörterb." p. 272, Tübingen and Leipsic, 1903).

Hell, like paradise, was created by God (Soṭah 22a); according to Gen. R. ix. 9, the words "very good" in Gen. i. 31 refer to hell; hence the latter must have been created on the sixth day. Yet opinions on this point vary. According to some sources, it was created on the second day; according to others, even before the world, only its fire being created on the second day (Gen. R. iv., end; Pes. 54a). The "fiery furnace" that Abraham saw (Gen. xv. 17, Hebr.) was Gehenna (Mek. xx. 18b, 71b; comp. Enoch, xcviii. 3, ciii. 8; Matt. xiii. 42, 50; 'Er. 19a, where the "fiery furnace" is also identified with the gate of Gehenna).
​

Tartarus is only used in reference to the sinful angels....they are said to exist in 'pits of dense darkness'.... so Tartarus should never be translated as hell because its not a physical place, its a 'condition' of mental darkness.

Based on what? The term comes from Greek mythology and refers to an actual place:

Tartarus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Tartarus (/ˈtɑrtərəs/), or Tartaros (Greek: Τάρταρο&#962, in ancient Greek mythology, is the deep abyss that is used as a dungeon of torment and suffering for the wicked and as the prison for the Titans.[1] As far below Hades as the earth is below the heavens,[1] Tartarus is the place where, according to Plato in Gorgias (c. 400 BC), souls were judged after death and where the wicked received punishment. Like other primal entities (such as the earth and time), Tartarus was also considered to be a primordial force or deity.​

 

[Pegg]

This was not the Jewish understanding of Gehenna which was a literal place, sorry.

GEHENNA - JewishEncyclopedia.com

The statement that Gehenna is situated in the valley of Hinnom near Jerusalem, in the "accursed valley" (Enoch, xxvii. 1 et seq.), means simply that it has a gate there. It was in Zion, and had a gate in Jerusalem (Isa. xxxi. 9). It had three gates, one in the wilderness, one in the sea, and one in Jerusalem ('Er. 19a). The gate lies between two palm-trees in the valley of Hinnom, from which smoke is continually rising (ib.). The mouth is narrow, impeding the smoke, but below Gehenna extends indefinitely (Men. 99b). According to one opinion, it is above the firmament, and according to another, behind the dark mountains (Ta'an. 32b). An Arabian pointed out to a scholar the spot in the wilderness where the earth swallowed the sons of Korah (Num. xvi. 31-32), who descended into Gehenna (Sanh. 110b). It is situated deep down in the earth, and is immeasurably large. "The earth is one-sixtieth of the garden, the garden one-sixtieth of Eden [paradise], Eden one-sixtieth of Gehenna; hence the whole world is like a lid for Gehenna. Some say that Gehenna can not be measured" (Pes. 94a). It is divided into seven compartments (Soṭah 10b); a similar view was held by the Babylonians (Jeremias, "Hölle und Paradies bei den Babyloniern," pp. 16 et seq., Leipsic, 1901; Guthe, "Kurzes Bibel-wörterb." p. 272, Tübingen and Leipsic, 1903).

Hell, like paradise, was created by God (Soṭah 22a); according to Gen. R. ix. 9, the words "very good" in Gen. i. 31 refer to hell; hence the latter must have been created on the sixth day. Yet opinions on this point vary. According to some sources, it was created on the second day; according to others, even before the world, only its fire being created on the second day (Gen. R. iv., end; Pes. 54a). The "fiery furnace" that Abraham saw (Gen. xv. 17, Hebr.) was Gehenna (Mek. xx. 18b, 71b; comp. Enoch, xcviii. 3, ciii. 8; Matt. xiii. 42, 50; 'Er. 19a, where the "fiery furnace" is also identified with the gate of Gehenna).​

This source identifies Gehenna as an actual place in the valley of hinnom as i stated.....whats the issue?

The other sources paint it as some mystical place....but none of these sources are from the bible.

​

Based on what? The term comes from Greek mythology and refers to an actual place:

Tartarus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Tartarus (/ˈtɑrtərəs/), or Tartaros (Greek: Τάρταρο&#962, in ancient Greek mythology, is the deep abyss that is used as a dungeon of torment and suffering for the wicked and as the prison for the Titans.[1] As far below Hades as the earth is below the heavens,[1] Tartarus is the place where, according to Plato in Gorgias (c. 400 BC), souls were judged after death and where the wicked received punishment. Like other primal entities (such as the earth and time), Tartarus was also considered to be a primordial force or deity.​

the bible and greek mythology are two different things. The bible says that tartarus is where the rebellious spirits reside in darkness. Greek mythology can say what it likes about tartarus.

I believe the bible to be the source of truth... greek mythology, not so much!

 

[nazz]

This source identifies Gehenna as an actual place in the valley of hinnom as i stated.....whats the issue?

No, it doesn't say that. It says:

The statement that Gehenna is situated in the valley of Hinnom near Jerusalem, in the "accursed valley" (Enoch, xxvii. 1 et seq.), means simply that it has a gate there