A living Apostle answers the question...

[Polaris]

Are Mormons Christian? Elder Jeffery R. Holland, member of the Quorum of Twelve Apostles gives an excellent response to this question and in doing so provides a powerful description of the true nature of the Godhead.

http://broadcast.lds.org/genconf/2007/10/20/GC_2007_10_27_HollandJR__02381_eng_.mp3

 

[robtex]

Are Mormons Christian? Elder Jeffery R. Holland, member of the Quorum of Twelve Apostles gives an excellent response to this question and in doing so provides a powerful description of the true nature of the Godhead.

http://broadcast.lds.org/genconf/2007/10/20/GC_2007_10_27_HollandJR__02381_eng_.mp3

Polaris, you put this in a debate thread but didn't say what you wanted to debate. Did you mean to put this in the LDS section?

 

[Polaris]

Polaris, you put this in a debate thread but didn't say what you wanted to debate. Did you mean to put this in the LDS section?

No I meant to put it here. The discourse refutes the claims that LDS aren't Christians due to our rejection of the Trinitarian doctrine. This topic is a highly debated one.

 

[Aasimar]

I've never understood this debate.

Christian = One who believes is the divinity of Christ

Mormons believe this

Mormons are Christians

 

[sojourner]

I don't believe that every Christian "believes in the divinity of Christ."
I don't thind that's the correct definition. A Christian is one who follows Christ.

 

[SoyLeche]

I don't believe that every Christian "believes in the divinity of Christ."
I don't thind that's the correct definition. A Christian is one who follows Christ.

We fit that definition too

I'll post my personal definition of the word - I've posted it elsewhere, but...

A Christian is someone who holds Jesus Christ as the highest authority in their religious life.

I'm still not sure about the "in their religious life" part (I'm not sure how best to word it) - but the point is that nobody else supercedes Christ to them.

 

[SoyLeche]

I quite like this quote too:

Every faithful follower of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints tries to emulate Christ's example in his or her own life. If that isn't enough to satisfy people that need a particularly narrow definition of Christianity, then maybe there's nothing we can do about that. - Michael Otterson, director of media relations for the LDS church

 

[sojourner]

Are Mormons Christian? Elder Jeffery R. Holland, member of the Quorum of Twelve Apostles gives an excellent response to this question and in doing so provides a powerful description of the true nature of the Godhead.

http://broadcast.lds.org/genconf/2007/10/20/GC_2007_10_27_HollandJR__02381_eng_.mp3

I wonder what the other living apostles: The Patriarch of Constantinope, The Bishop of Rome, TheArchbishop of Canterbury, et. al. would have for us as an answer?

 

[Polaris]

I wonder what the other living apostles: The Patriarch of Constantinope, The Bishop of Rome, TheArchbishop of Canterbury, et. al. would have for us as an answer?

I'm not sure that they would consider themselves to be living apostles, but I too would be interested to hear their response.

 

[sojourner]

I'm not sure that they would consider themselves to be living apostles, but I too would be interested to hear their response.

They are within the Apostolic succession -- the successors to apostolic authority...

 

[Polaris]

They are within the Apostolic succession -- the successors to apostolic authority...

Well if they all are truly Apostles then they should all give consistent answers, unfortunately I doubt that to be the case.

 

[Comprehend]

I've never understood this debate.

Christian = One who believes is the divinity of Christ

Mormons believe this

Mormons are Christians

Me either.

It seems that MSC's can't stand the idea of including us in Christianity and constantly try to argue that because we don't fit *their* criteria, we are not Christian.

We believe in Christ, we follow Christ. We are Christians.

I have never figured out why this sends MSC's into such a dither but it does. I would think they would be "christian" about it.

 

[sojourner]

Well if they all are truly Apostles then they should all give consistent answers, unfortunately I doubt that to be the case.

Why should they? Even the original Twelve disagreed violently at times. Case in point: the argument about Gentiles needing to become Jewish and be circumcised before being converted to Xy.

 

[Comprehend]

I wonder what the other living apostles: The Patriarch of Constantinope, The Bishop of Rome, TheArchbishop of Canterbury, et. al. would have for us as an answer?

They claim to be Apostles of Jesus Christ? I wasn't aware of that, could you provide a link?

I would love to hear what they answered as well, but I doubt they will.

 

[Polaris]

Why should they? Even the original Twelve disagreed violently at times. Case in point: the argument about Gentiles needing to become Jewish and be circumcised before being converted to Xy.

They should agree on something as doctrinally fundamental as the nature of God and his true relationship to Christ. Otherwise how can we trust that any of them are divinely inspired?

 

[sojourner]

They claim to be Apostles of Jesus Christ? I wasn't aware of that, could you provide a link?

I would love to hear what they answered as well, but I doubt they will.

Of course they do. They are in the Apostolic succession, which transfers the authority of the apostles from one person to another. The Orthodox, Roman and Anglican Christians (as well as some others) take the Succession very seriously. The Bishop of Rome, which is the Pope, stands in a direct authoritative line from Peter. You'd have to ask James the Persian about the Orthodox Patriarchs. The Anglican line follows roughly the Roman line, with some noteworthy exceptions.

 

[sojourner]

Me either.

It seems that MSC's can't stand the idea of including us in Christianity and constantly try to argue that because we don't fit *their* criteria, we are not Christian.

We believe in Christ, we follow Christ. We are Christians.

I have never figured out why this sends MSC's into such a dither but it does. I would think they would be "christian" about it.

If you want to be included, then you'll have to be willing to be inclusive, yourself, of the apostolic authority of other Christians. See my answer above.

 

[SoyLeche]

If you want to be included, then you'll have to be willing to be inclusive, yourself, of the apostolic authority of other Christians. See my answer above.

Why? I think all we need to be inclusive of is our acceptance of Christ as the ultimate authority.

 

[Polaris]

Of course they do. They are in the Apostolic succession, which transfers the authority of the apostles from one person to another. The Orthodox, Roman and Anglican Christians (as well as some others) take the Succession very seriously. The Bishop of Rome, which is the Pope, stands in a direct authoritative line from Peter. You'd have to ask James the Persian about the Orthodox Patriarchs. The Anglican line follows roughly the Roman line, with some noteworthy exceptions.

Just because an Apostle ordains a man to be Bishop doesn't necessarily mean that that Bishop is an Apostle or holds Apostolic authority.

 

[Comprehend]

Of course they do. They are in the Apostolic succession, which transfers the authority of the apostles from one person to another. The Orthodox, Roman and Anglican Christians (as well as some others) take the Succession very seriously. The Bishop of Rome, which is the Pope, stands in a direct authoritative line from Peter. You'd have to ask James the Persian about the Orthodox Patriarchs. The Anglican line follows roughly the Roman line, with some noteworthy exceptions.

Yes I know they claim the authority via succession but I am not aware that they claim to be one of the 12 Apostles of Jesus Christ.

There is a difference.

Are they claiming to have recieved authority that was passed down from the 12 Apostles or are they claiming to actually be 1 of the 12 Apostles?