A friendly debate regarding the merits of Christianity v that of Judaism in regards to salvation. (Anthony H Miller and Harel13).

[Anthony H Miller]

This debate will be between Anthony H Miller and Harel13.

Before getting started I would like to establish several things we should mutually agree on.

1: We worship the same God; The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of Israel.

2: We agree that man is comprised of a body, a soul, a mind and a spirit. To define the soul is difficult but this is the best I can do.

As I found no clear definition in the Hebrew scriptures I sourced a Rabbinic view from the Palestinian Talmud (J.T., Kil. 8.4,31c).
This definition is very close to mine, it reads; "The Palestinian Talmud attributes the origin of different portions of the physical body to human parents, while the spirit, life, and soul are attributed to God. This admits a greater duality than is acknowledged in the Hebrew Bible, but the soul is regarded as the active element, and so is responsible for sin, while the body is only a vehicle.

My definition is from the Christian New Testament where Paul refers to the mortal or flesh body as a vessel or a container, implying an understanding that the soul of man resides there; (the inner man). To bring more clarity I break things down into simple terms that all might understand.

If man has been created in the image of God then it is reasonable to assume that man and God should be doing things in a similar manner. For example; If a man wants to contain something from nature like water, berries, gasoline, oil etc, then the first thing he does is he finds or constructs a container. If I consider a container of say; a cup of coffee, a glass of water or anything. My initial consideration is not so much the container but rather the substance contained therein. The container is necessary but I want to know; is the coffee good? Is the water good? Is the milk good? etc etc.

Every substance man desires to contain must be contained in a suitable container. A gasoline can is not a suitable container for propane gas, a paper bag is a suitable container for your groceries but not for a gallon of water etc etc. All these containers that man devises come from the elements of the earth; every one!

We can observe God doing the same thing when He forms man. Visualize Adam lying there, an empty container of flesh; (he even has nostrils). Then God places mans soul into this vessel which He has constructed from the elements of the earth, and man becomes a living soul.

3: It is understood that arguments will be taken from the Hebrew Bible to include not only the Pentateuch but all the prophets and those books listed in the Christian King James version of scripture, ie from Genesis to Malachi. And the Christian new testament from Matthew to Revelation.

Anthony (Tony)

 

[Harel13]

So, what do you want to debate exactly?

 

[Anthony H Miller]

So, what do you want to debate exactly?

To the Christian, salvation is a personal experience with the understanding that we are saved from the wrath of God; (Romans 5:9) We also believe that all of Israel will be saved (Romans 11:26). I take this to be in reference to (Psalm 14:7). How do you view salvation? Can Judaism bring this about? if so how?

Question; according to Judaism can the soul die?

You did not respond to my initial 3 items, do you agree with them?

 

[Anthony H Miller]

To the Christian, salvation is a personal experience with the understanding that we are saved from the wrath of God; (Romans 5:9) We also believe that all of Israel will be saved (Romans 11:26). I take this to be in reference to (Psalm 14:7). How do you view salvation? Can Judaism bring this about? if so how?

Question; according to Judaism can the soul die?

You did not respond to my initial 3 items, do you agree with them?

It has been a number of days. I thought perhaps my opponent had some issues and could not respond. However i see he has been to the forum a number of times, i must assume he does not want to answer the question, so i will answer it for him.

Back in the mid 1980s when i was a young Christian studying the Hebrew scriptures, i had an encounter with a rabbi of the Lubaivtich sect of Judaism and i asked him that very same question. His response was; "No, the soul cannot die". I asked if he was familiar with a particular Hebrew scripture, and he responded; "I don't know that scripture", and he then made a quick getaway. This is similar to what my opponent seems to have done.
Recently i posed that question to an orthodox rabbi who answered the same. The scripture i referenced is Ezekiel chapter 18: 4-32. There are no ambiguities there, God is very explicit as to what message He is sending. You will find that same message in Deuteronomy 30:15-19.

To understand Christianity you must get back to what took place in the garden with Adam and Eve, the same holds true for Israel, in particular the Jews. Jesus said; "Salvation is of the Jews", John 4:22.
I heard a well respected Christian teacher misquote that scripture saying "Salvation is from the Jews". Like the modern day practitioners of Judaism, modern day practitioners of Christianity do not understand or properly teach salvation.There is a message in the Hebrew scriptures that is identical to that in the Christian Greek scriptures.

Few Christians understand that the Kingdom was taken from Israel, but would on day be returned; Acts 1:6-7. My purpose is to help facilitate that promise.
Many of my Christian brothers and sisters like to say they are "Born again". They understand who their spiritual Father is, but they cannot tell you who their spiritual mother is.

Some food for thought regarding Torah law:
We know that any law has two basic parts as it relates to those subject to it.
The laws of physics dictate that we obey them or else suffer the consequences.
Laws are set down and enforced in the home.
Laws are established by governments to maintain social order in all cultures.
A law without penalties is not a law.
Those who wish to place themselves and others under Torah Law are subject to the penalties of Gods law. One cannot pick and choose which tenants of that law he will obey, he must obey ALL of them or pay the consequences written in Ezekiel chapter 18.
Christianity provides a way out, while at the same time pleasing God.

Yes i have a controversy with the practitioners of Judaism, but i also have one with my fellow Christian teachers who have strayed from the truth. I am a resurrected son of the Most High God, and I say that in the present tense. If this forum will allow me i will expound on the truth of the matter.

I welcome my opponent back to the platform if he chooses, but rather than debate, i would like more of a dialogue situation so if possible we might come to a consensus as to what exactly God is saying to all His people. If another qualified Hebrew scholar would like to take his place i would welcome that also.

 

[Harel13]

It has been a number of days. I thought perhaps my opponent had some issues and could not respond. However i see he has been to the forum a number of times, i must assume he does not want to answer the question, so i will answer it for him.

Back in the mid 1980s when i was a young Christian studying the Hebrew scriptures, i had an encounter with a rabbi of the Lubaivtich sect of Judaism and i asked him that very same question. His response was; "No, the soul cannot die". I asked if he was familiar with a particular Hebrew scripture, and he responded; "I don't know that scripture", and he then made a quick getaway. This is similar to what my opponent seems to have done.

I wrote to you in private why I was unavailable. This post is kind of rude and unnecessary, considering you didn't message me to see what was going on with me.

You did not respond to my initial 3 items

I didn't respond directly because it wasn't clear to me what was the thread's topic and what I was supposed to be agreeing to.

To understand Christianity you must get back to what took place in the garden with Adam and Eve, the same holds true for Israel, in particular the Jews.

Are you differentiating between Israel and Jews?
And that's not entirely true. The original sin isn't as key a factor in Judaism as it is in Christianity.

I welcome my opponent back to the platform if he chooses, but rather than debate, i would like more of a dialogue situation so if possible we might come to a consensus as to what exactly God is saying to all His people. If another qualified Hebrew scholar would like to take his place i would welcome that also.

So, I still have no idea why you started this debate. You messaged me last week asking whether it would be okay to debate in the public forum, but did not clarify what you wanted to debate before starting this thread.

 

[Anthony H Miller]

I wrote to you in private why I was unavailable. This post is kind of rude and unnecessary, considering you didn't message me to see what was going on with me.

I didn't respond directly because it wasn't clear to me what was the thread's topic and what I was supposed to be agreeing to.


Are you differentiating between Israel and Jews?
And that's not entirely true. The original sin isn't as key a factor in Judaism as it is in Christianity.

So, I still have no idea why you started this debate. You messaged me last week asking whether it would be okay to debate in the public forum, but did not clarify what you wanted to debate before starting this thread.

Greetings Harel,

If you will have a look at the 3-18-24 response you will see i wanted to continue our discussion on the open forum. You suggested a one on one debate. I was not interested in debating, i only wanted our discussion to be on the open forum, i just went along with your suggestion.

If you want to continue our discussion and get off the debate thing i can do that. The topic of discussion is: How can Judaism provide for the salvation, or the keeping alive of an individuals soul? ( psalm 22:29), as compared to Christianity. I would expect our discussion to flow to various scriptural references for a give and take on that subject. I would stay within those perimeters i presented at the start of the debate. Are you O-K with that?
Tony

 

[Anthony H Miller]

My sincere apologies Harel,
I think i mentioned my unfamiliarity with a forum platform, this is my first time for all this. I thought my message response was private and did not intend for it to show up as a post.

Regarding the concept of original sin, i am in full agreement with the Jewish view that we are not born sinners. If that were the case we would come into the world having a dead soul according to what is written in Ezekiel chapter 18.
Christian teachers seem to miss the message in Matthew 18. Any one of us could have been that child Jesus used as an example; the child had a living soul. The problem comes when the child grows and becomes accountable. This is when the Law kicks in, with the end result being the death of ones soul as described in Ezekiel 18.
God made provisions for the soul to stay in good standing when He instituted the Tabernacle.
Paul in Romans 5:12 spells out the situation. It is death (of the soul) that is the result of sin. In 5:14 he says that this death reigned from Adam to Moses. Obviously Paul understood his Hebrew scriptures. He was saying that the covenant made through Moses made a way for men to atone for sin and continue to live.

I am not sure what you mean when you ask if am i differentiating between Israel and Jews. Jews are a part of Israel as a whole, and are included in that understanding.
In Romans 11, Paul acknowledges all of Israel; this would obviously include Jews. A good many of my fellow Christians do not see the warning to the Gentiles there. We have had over 2000 years to get things right, do you think the mystery of Romans 11:25 might be close?
The blindness referenced in Romans 11: 7-8 may soon be coming off.
For Gentile believers, we have been grafted into the commonwealth of Israel (Ephesians 2:12). The elect referenced in Romans 11:7 are believing Jews.

 

[Anthony H Miller]

My sincere apologies Harel,
I think i mentioned my unfamiliarity with a forum platform, this is my first time for all this. I thought my message response was private and did not intend for it to show up as a post.

Regarding the concept of original sin, i am in full agreement with the Jewish view that we are not born sinners. If that were the case we would come into the world having a dead soul according to what is written in Ezekiel chapter 18.
Christian teachers seem to miss the message in Matthew 18. Any one of us could have been that child Jesus used as an example; the child had a living soul. The problem comes when the child grows and becomes accountable. This is when the Law kicks in, with the end result being the death of ones soul as described in Ezekiel 18.
God made provisions for the soul to stay in good standing when He instituted the Tabernacle.
Paul in Romans 5:12 spells out the situation. It is death (of the soul) that is the result of sin. In 5:14 he says that this death reigned from Adam to Moses. Obviously Paul understood his Hebrew scriptures. He was saying that the covenant made through Moses made a way for men to atone for sin and continue to live.

I am not sure what you mean when you ask if am i differentiating between Israel and Jews. Jews are a part of Israel as a whole, and are included in that understanding.
In Romans 11, Paul acknowledges all of Israel; this would obviously include Jews. A good many of my fellow Christians do not see the warning to the Gentiles there. We have had over 2000 years to get things right, do you think the mystery of Romans 11:25 might be close?
The blindness referenced in Romans 11: 7-8 may soon be coming off.
For Gentile believers, we have been grafted into the commonwealth of Israel (Ephesians 2:12). The elect referenced in Romans 11:7 are believing Jews.

Greetings fellow members,

It looks like my opponent may be away for awhile, so i thought i would take the time to expound on some Christian doctrine. My hope is that he will return soon and we can continue.
#
Christianity is not a religion, it is a way of life. It has four basic doctrines; the doctrine of baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and that of eternal judgement. (Hebrews 6:1-3).

My particular calling has been to that doctrine of the baptism whereby we receive the remission of sins and enter into a personal covenant with God. I touch on the other 3 but i do not venture too deep as i want to leave those things to those whose calling it is.

Christian baptism is not simply a ritual, there is also meaning behind it. That meaning cannot be understood unless one first understands what Man is.
That understanding begins in Genesis. It begins with the first lie ever told and is the basis for my initial question to my opponent. Can the soul die???
As can be seen in Gen 2: 17; God warns Man not to eat of the tree of the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL because in the day they eat of it they will surely die.
Now in Gen 3: 4, along comes the first big lie out of the mouth of the one who told it, contradicting God and telling them they would not die. In verse 5-6 the serpent tells Eve that her EYES will be opened. This is not in reference to her eyes of flesh which she is using to view the tree, this is in reference to the eyes of the soul which Satan tells her will be opened!
After they ate and the eyes of their soul were opened, they then knew right from wrong. They became compromised and accountable for their actions. This is what was passed on to all their offspring, not sin! One could say it was now part of Mans DNA. This is the death God was referring to. It was never Gods intent for the soul to die. That the flesh would die is a given, but not the soul.

If one cannot differentiate between the soul-body and the flesh-body, one cannot comprehend the message contained in the Hebrew scriptures, and surely cannot comprehend that in the Christian New Testament. 1st Kings 17:21 aptly demonstrates this difference when Elijah stretched himself over the dead body of the women's son and asked the Lord to let the child's soul come back into his body.
We have two bodies. The single most important thing for a man to consider is to not leave this life with two dead bodies, as when Jesus in Matt 8:22 described that situation.
What He said was; Let those with the shovels who have a living flesh-body and are able to dig the grave of their dead relative get to it. The grave diggers condition differs in that they can still do something about their situation if they choose. The fellow whose grave they are digging however is in a bad way; his soul is dead as well as his flesh! It is too late for him! And so it is with us if we choose to do nothing.

My next post will be on the spirit. I have heard of some preachers telling parishioners when they ask. "What is the difference between the spirit and the soul?" And they ignorantly reply, "There is no difference, they are the same".

I assure you they are different and we will talk about that next session.

Tony

 

[Anthony H Miller]

Still Waiting for Harel 13

 

[Anthony H Miller]

Before I get into what is spirit, I would like to share some thoughts and feelings I had when I first began to study the scriptures.
I admit, Jesus greatly hurt my feelings when he referred to us non-Jews as dogs in Matthew 15:21-28, and Mark 7:24-30.

Then sometime later when I began to understand, I ran into this scripture; (Ecclesiastes 9:4). For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion. This is the basis of the gentiles hope in Jesus; we eat those scraps that the non-believing Jews reject, and our souls live because of our faith in Him and our belief in His word.

God is good, and many years later He gave me this dream:
I found myself seated at a nondescript counter. From the other side of the counter, a woman approached me carrying a small crock. It looked like it was hewn out of stone. The women was reminiscent of one of those Amish or Mennonite women. She was dressed in a pale blue and whitish garment, with a scarf covering her head. She held the crock in both hands and approached me with a smile. She said nothing as she set it before me along with a non-metallic spoon.
The vessel was approximately 6 inches in diameter by about 7 inches high. I looked into it and about 1/3 of the way up there were these wedges of what looked like sherbet ice cream. They were all of different colors. I dipped my spoon in for a taste. I expected it would be sweet but it was not sweet and not bitter, it had a pleasant taste. By the spirit I knew it was the Word of God. As I turned to my left there was seated a small boy perhaps 6-7 years old. Next to him was a sweet looking older rabbi. He was whiskered and somewhat small in stature. I tend to be vocal in my nature and I said to them; "You see, the Word of God is good." Obviously the boy and the rabbi already knew that. The boy ignored me, but the rabbi had a broad smile on his face. He never looked at me, he just kept eating. I think he was smiling at my exuberance as this was my first time there. The dream ended and I woke up.

Regarding that first lie in the garden. It would seem to me that when an individual directly contradicts God by saying the opposite of what God is saying he is in fact calling God a liar. This would be the ultimate blasphemy, making that person confederate with Satan as they are both saying the same thing.
It is the Word of God I share with you my brothers and sisters. I am hoping you will take them to heart.

 

[Anthony H Miller]

As promised I will address what is spirit:

Mans spirit is his word, it is his communicator. It resides in the heart and in the mind, (Matthew 12:33). Jesus said the words I speak are spirit, (John 6:63).
Coupled with faith, your spirit can do things, (Mk11:23). Spirit is always speaking. Weather it is the Holy spirit or mans. A true Christian has two spirits residing within; his own and Gods holy spirit, (Romans 8:16). Clearly the soul and the spirit are not the same as some might think, (1 Thessalonians 5:23 and Hebrews 4:12). Among His many attributes, God is also known as a Spirit, (John 4:24).

Revelation 1:4, 3:1, 4:5, and 5:6, tells us God has at least seven spirits. Contrary to what many think regarding the creation of the heaven and the earth, there was no initial big-bang. God's Spirit spoke to a particular substance we all know; that substance was water! (Genesis 1:2).
Water was present before there was the light. Throughout the Hebrew and Greek NT scriptures spirit is always speaking or doing something.

Regarding the Holy Spirit. It is troublesome to me when my fellow Christians refer to Him as a ghost. The Greek word phantom or ghost is used in Matthew 14:26. Serious scholars need to get their Greek to English translation straight and stop the nonsense.

I could go on, but l will leave it to those who might care to study these things out. (Still waiting For Harel13).

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My next topic will be on the so-called trinity issue.

After that there will be a discussion on THE LORD'S DAY. This day originates in the Hebrew scriptures as does the trinity concept. These should be interesting conversations.

 

[Anthony H Miller]

It's not in my job definition to know. IMO, whatever happens, happens.

I don't recall asking you that question. Please follow the rules, you have not been invited to this debate.

 

[Anthony H Miller]

One great issue Judaism seems to have with Christian theology is the concept of the trinity.

I like to take the Apostle Paul's advice from 1 Corinthians 11:3; "But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtlety, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ"

If we start with a simple candle we can observe three things. One is the candle itself. If we light the candle we then have the second which is the flame ((fire), and the third is the light from that flame.

It would be absurd to think there were three candles there. We are simply observing two attributes of one candle; the flame and the light produced from it. If one considers any light it should be understood that they all must emanate from a source; light and fire are not stand alone phenomena.

If we consider the sun, we feel the heat (fire) and the light, which are both essential to all physical life on earth, yet we still see only one sun.

Jesus never claimed to be the Godhead, he claimed to be the light that emanated from the Godhead. He referred to the Godhead as the Father.
He is just as much a part of the Godhead as the light and flame are parts of one candle.

John verse 1:1-5; In the beginning was the Word (spirit), and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning (think Genesis) with God.
All things were made by Him; and without Him was not anything made that was made. In Him was life; and that life was the light of men. And the light shineth in the darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

Jesus said, Luke 12:49; I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled? This He speaks of the baptism of the Holy Spirit spoken of by John the baptist in Luke 3:11.

Now I mentioned the sun as an example. If we compare the Godhead to the firmament of the sun, and Jesus as the fire and the light that emanates from it, we begin to have some understanding.

From the Hebrew scriptures; Deuteronomy 4:24 and else ware; For the Lord your God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God. Psalm119: 105 and else ware; Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

The best man can do in attempting to describe God is to compare Him to a sun. And if someone wishes to accuse me of being a sun worshiper, I will be in good company as King David described Him in like manner; Psalm 84:11 For the Lord God is a sun and a shield; The firmament, Father (source), the light ( His Son Jesus) and the fire (Holy Spirit).

I can't imagine any man telling God what He can or cannot do. If He wants to take on the form of a man and dwell amongst His people that's His business.
My personal thought is this; He became like us so we could become like Him. Read Genesis 3:22 and note the tree of life. Then read Revelation 2:7.

 

[Anthony H Miller]

My purpose is not to create contention between my Christian brothers regarding certain doctrinal issues. Paul teaches that we should build up one another.
I read 3rd Angel's post of Nov 19, 2022 and I am hoping he will follow what I am about to say regarding that subject. But first I feel it is necessary to clear up certain misunderstandings that have led to much confusion regarding Christian doctrine.

That confusion arises when Christians fail to recognize and accept the fact that "The Law" was fulfilled through Jesus. He did not fulfill only certain parts and leave others intact, He fulfilled it all, and that would include the sabbath. There is good reason that nowhere in the New Testament do you you find a commandment to keep the sabbath.
Colossians 2:14-16 pretty well explains that understanding. You will find many other scriptures to back that up as well. If you want to keep the Law, you are commanded to keep the entire Law. That is a hurdle no man except Jesus was able to make. If you claim the Christian faith you should know that He accomplished that for you! He then placed a small hurdle in it's place that anyone could easily step over called Grace. Nearly all of Paul's message was to this understanding.

Regarding the Lord's Day, note Jesus's reference to the psalms in Luke 24:44. I am a psalm 116-118 Christian. Psalm 118:24 speaks of a certain day which the Lord made, this is the Lord's day; It is the day of His resurrection.

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When I was a young Christian studying the bible, I saw a discrepancy in the time-line when Jesus and his disciples ate the Passover and when those in the temple ate.
Matthew 26:17 and Mark 14:12 speaks of the first day of unleavened bread and they eat the Passover that evening. Then Jesus is taken that night to Caiaphas the high priest.
It is morning after the chief priests and elders have taken counsel to put him to death and He is taken to Pilate, it is now day; Luke 22:66.
A lot is happening here, Pilate has sent Jesus to Herod and Herod sends Him back.
Two others were also on trial, the thief on the right and the one on the left.

John 18:28 tells us that it is early but the Jews apparently had not eaten the Passover. Not being a Jew and unfamiliar with the Old Testament it was confusing, but I carried on.
Note what Jesus said in John 2:19; "Destroy this temple, and in Three days I will raise it up." That temple began undergoing it's destruction when He was taken, tried, convicted, mocked, scourged and eventually hung on the cross. The three days would not enter in until He had expired. Three days would have to elapse before He was raised it up after He died. Add those three days to the time it took for His apprehension, trial etc,etc, and you can easily see a week.

Notice the days before they took Him down from the cross to when Mary finds the tomb empty.
Matthew 27:62 speaks of a preparation day; they are getting ready for a sabbath. In 28:1 the sabbath has ended, What sabbath is this if it is only three days after the Passover? Passover was to be held on the 14th day of the first month. Was the 14th day the 2nd sabbath of that month? What is going on? In 27:62 the chief priests acknowledge three days. This is three days of Jesus being dead!
Mark 15:42, another mention of that preparation day and a sabbath.
Luke 23:54, another mention of a preparation day. This is the day they take Jesus down from the cross.
John 19:31 tells us this was no ordinary sabbath. verse 42 again tells us it was the preparation day.
Then towards the end when He was taken off the cross and placed in the tomb, John 19:14 also speaks of a preparation before Jesus had been killed. In John 19:31 He is dead and there is talk of a preparation day and a sabbath coming on.

Matthew 28:1, Mark 16:2, Luke 24:1 and John 20:1, John 20:19, Acts 20:7, 1 Corinthians 16:2 all speak of a Sabbath and not the 1st day of the week. Get your Greek translator out.

Clearly Jesus kept the full feast of Passover; all eight days! According to the Hebrew scriptures Passover consists of the Passover meal when the sacrifice is eaten, then the 7 days of unleavened bread. Leaven represents wickedness. See 1 Corinthians chapter 5. Jesus was unleavened.
Day 1 and day 7 of unleavened bread were both High Holy days (sabbaths). The day of preparation mentioned in the gospels was that day before that sabbath, or the 8th day encompassing the entire Passover feast.

Then we begin to see 8 day intervals when Jesus shows Himself after His resurrection.

1: John 20:19, this is the first 8th day interval after Jesus rose from the dead.
2: John 20:26, this is the 2nd 8 day interval. After this He showed Himself one more time at the sea of Tiberias, but no time interval is given.

A manuscript that gets little attention in modern day churches is an early church manual titled; The Didache, or Teaching of the Apostles. There they reference "The Lord's own day," when taking communion.

From the Epistle of Barnabas he says " Wherefore also we keep the eighth day a day of rejoicing, in the which also Jesus rose from the dead, and having been manifested ascended into the heavens.

Ignatius, an early second century A.D. Christian martyr wrote in his epistle to the Magnesians; "If then those who had walked in ancient practices
attained unto newness of hope, no longer observing sabbaths but fashioning their lives after the LORDS DAY, on which our life also arose through Him...
From Foxes Book of Martyrs: A.D.108, Pliny the Second, a man learned and famous, seeing the lamentable slaughter of Christians, and moved therewith to pity, wrote to Emperor Trajan, certifying him that there were many thousands of them put to death, of which none did anything contrary to the Roman laws worthy of persecution. "The whole account they gave of their crime or error amounted to this... that they were accustomed on a stated day to meet before daylight , and to repeat together a set form of prayer to Christ as a God, and to bind themselves by an obligation not to commit wickedness; but on the contrary never to commit theft , robbery, or adultery, never to falsify their word, never to defraud any man: after which it was their custom to separate, and reassemble to partake in common of a harmless meal."

It was not until recently that I discovered why the time-line discrepancy I mentioned earlier threw things off. It seems the pharisaic Jews of the Temple had sometime earlier converted to a pagan lunar calendar. This was discovered from those dead sea scroll translations. Jesus and His disciples would have been on the correct solar calendar. There is other information out there that supports this.

Getting back to the eighth day, this is the only cycle of days that allows for every day of the week to have it's glory. If Jesus rose from the dead on a Sunday, the next day in the eight day cycle would be a Monday then Tuesday then Wednesday then Thursday, then Friday, then Saturday, then Sunday again, and on and on it repeats like that.
A christian can choose whatever day he likes. The problem comes when holier-than-thou types want to prove everybody wrong but them. For me personally I start my day with psalm 118:24.

For you Christians why do you not understand Isaiah Chapter one? Why would you claim something that is not yours? God likens the city to Sodom, and their sabbaths are an abomination to Him. Jerusalem is still that way. Read Revelation 11:8. Their hope is in Isaiah Chapter two, and
Jeremiah Chapter 31:31.

 

[Anthony H Miller]

The message in the old testament and that in the new are one and the same. You will not find this message taught in the synagogues or in the churches, but you will find it throughout the old testament and the new. They are intertwined with that same word. What could not be accomplished in the old was enabled through the new. The unbelieving Jews were never cast off completely, they were simply placed on the back burner so to speak till the right time; Luke 13:30, And behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last. I believe that time is approaching.
The parallels are fully evident if one understands the message. It has never been about the flesh but always about the soul and the salvation of that soul. This is not a group situation but a personal one on one with that individual relationship between every man and the God who created him. The peace Jesus speaks of is not the peace one looks for in the world, It is that you are personally, now at peace with God.

Proverbs 11:30, The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life; and he that wins souls is wise.
James 5:20, Let him know, that he which converts a sinner from the error of his ways shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

The term legal has meaningful implications when applied to any law but it has dire implications with respect to Torah Law. God laid down very specific and implicit details as to how that Law was to be administered. With the loss of the Temple, the Arc of the Covenant and other things it became impossible for Jews to legally atone for their sins. Many invented new and curious ways to try to accomplish the impossible. The question remains; how can a man keep his soul alive?
Paul sums up the issue regarding the Law in 2 Corinthians 3: 6-18 That vail spoken of in verse 16, I hope is soon to come off.
In Romans 7: 7-25, Paul speaks again about the Law.
If one reads the New Testament with a jaundiced eye he will be blinded to the truth. But If one reads it with the understanding that it is all in reference to the death of the soul through the Law and the preservation and the restoration of life to ones soul through an acceptable sacrifice, then even Christians can begin to comprehend.

Very early in my Christian life when I saw the love Jesus had for His Jewish people, I began to develop a love for them as well.
I have had a number of spiritual dreams which I feel are in keeping with the words written in Joel 2:28. Because God is true to His word, I pray my opponent might have an encounter but in the form of a vision, seeing that he is a young man.

I had one brief vision back in the mid 1980s.

I was at my desk reading from Exodus chapter 14. After reading verse 14:16, I tried to visualize what Moses might have thought when he did that. I closed my eyes and raised my right hand pretending to hold a rod. I was startled to see Jesus on the cross. He was in the air above the sea. He was liquid gold. I was not expecting to see anything, especially Him. My mind was on the Old Testament and not on Jesus. I knew then, it was Jesus in that cloud and in that fire!
I also realized that His death went clear back to Moses and even to Adam. Read Exodus 6:6, Deuteronomy 26:8. I like to think, one arm was for Israel and the other for us non-Jews.

One dream I had back in 2018 was somewhat different, it went like this; I find myself in a hall. It has a high ceiling like you see where Jews gather to do what ever they do. I ask my wife to bring me my prayer shawl, and she appears carrying it reverently in two hands as one would carry an American flag at a military funeral. I see myself and I am wearing a kippah. Later when I was contemplating the dream I thought this to be unusual as I follow the Christian teaching that Messiah is our covering which is why Christian men intentionally and reverently remove their hats when praying; 1 Corinthians 11:4.
My Christian sister worked as a secretary at the local Jewish synagogue. She was having some issues with her husband. I assumed she had a part to play in my calling to the Jews but to the right corner of the room there stood two of her Jewish friends and they simply said "Your sister is stubborn with her husband," which informed me that I was on my own here. These ladies are older, in their 70s, but in the dream they appeared in their late 20s or early 30s.
I approached a young Jewish man who was dressed in the usual white shirt and black trousers. I engaged him in conversation informing him that we worship the same God; The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. He put his arm in mine and we began to dance round and round. We did this for a little time then there appeared to our right a large number of Jewish men, all dressed the in the same white and black attire. They were dancing around in a large circle. We joined this group and began to dance with them. It got faster and faster then it turned into a whirlwind and I woke up.
As this conversation gets deeper into the Christian faith I will expound as to why it is impossible for a true Christian to sin. An audacious statement to be sure, and I am sure my Christian brothers might be interested to know how this can be as well.