A defense of LaVeyan Satanism

[ScottySatan]

Also a slightly embarrassing confession.

When Adramelek asked recently "Are you a Left Hand Path Magician?", my honest answer was somewhere between "no" and "not really".

Though I agree with Satanism in my core, and am drawn to the ascetic and imagery, my brand of Satanism is very casual. I fail to ask myself with every decision "WWSD?" I'm more like the secular christian who just goes to church on major holidays and weddings than a monk who's dedicated his life. I am ok with that.

I draw more influence from the pragmatic side of Satanism than the occult and abstract. I use the pragmatic knowledge within Satanism (lesser magic, for example) to great effect in exercising my Will. My life is literally more happy, carefree, and economically viable due to direct application of atheistic Satanic thought.

I still use some of the more abstract tools like greater magic. I do rituals. As a biologist, I believe the effects of these rituals can probably be accounted for with chemistry (neurotransmitters). However, my non-mysterious potential mechanism for the effect of greater magic does not diminish it's usefulness. Chemistry is extremely powerful. This does not deny a god, it denies the necessity of a god.

I find that LaVeyan Satanism as defined by the current CoS, though very limited in the scope of what LHP magic could be, is a massive undertaking in itself. I find LaVeyan Satanism in its limited scope to be sufficient for me 95% of the time.

Has anyone read the Satanic Scriptures? Without preconcieved hate? It's very good. Peter Gilmore is a better writer than LaVey was.

When discussions get lengthy on what sucks about LaVeyism, it's that LaVey Satanism in it's contemporary interpretation by the CoS has an emptyness. a hollow part. It doesn't quench a thirst for something more. This is the point where I'm left with nothing to say except to observe that people who do focus on this emptiness historically in my eyes have failed to invoke the basics before moving on to the advanced. And in my grotto, the theistic satanists meet up in sweatpants while the atheistic ones are in designer suits.

 

[Iti oj]

I support you. Good for you. Thank you for sharing.

 

[jasonwill2]

Also a slightly embarrassing confession.

When Adramelek asked recently "Are you a Left Hand Path Magician?", my honest answer was somewhere between "no" and "not really".

Though I agree with Satanism in my core, and am drawn to the ascetic and imagery, my brand of Satanism is very casual. I fail to ask myself with every decision "WWSD?" I'm more like the secular christian who just goes to church on major holidays and weddings than a monk who's dedicated his life. I am ok with that.

I draw more influence from the pragmatic side of Satanism than the occult and abstract. I use the pragmatic knowledge within Satanism (lesser magic, for example) to great effect in exercising my Will. My life is literally more happy, carefree, and economically viable due to direct application of atheistic Satanic thought.

I still use some of the more abstract tools like greater magic. I do rituals. As a biologist, I believe the effects of these rituals can probably be accounted for with chemistry (neurotransmitters). However, my non-mysterious potential mechanism for the effect of greater magic does not diminish it's usefulness. Chemistry is extremely powerful. This does not deny a god, it denies the necessity of a god.

I find that LaVeyan Satanism as defined by the current CoS, though very limited in the scope of what LHP magic could be, is a massive undertaking in itself. I find LaVeyan Satanism in its limited scope to be sufficient for me 95% of the time.

Has anyone read the Satanic Scriptures? Without preconcieved hate? It's very good. Peter Gilmore is a better writer than LaVey was.

When discussions get lengthy on what sucks about LaVeyism, it's that LaVey Satanism in it's contemporary interpretation by the CoS has an emptyness. a hollow part. It doesn't quench a thirst for something more. This is the point where I'm left with nothing to say except to observe that people who do focus on this emptiness historically in my eyes have failed to invoke the basics before moving on to the advanced. And in my grotto, the theistic satanists meet up in sweatpants while the atheistic ones are in designer suits.

I could totally dig the CoS if they were not so anti-theistic and lex Talionis about everything, I see there is a lot of good stuff in there but it gets all bogged down with arrogance.

As for the emptiness and preconceived hate, I can say that I can sense what you mean aobut hte emptiness, but as for the preconceived notions I've read an excerpt of the Satanic Scriptures and Gilmore came off way too strong and extreme, I'm not sure if he was literal in all his sayings or just trying to make a point.

However if the man thinks so little of me since I am not an atheist and automatically a "devil worshiper" I can't help but be angry with him for such blatant ignoring of Satanism as being around before Anton LaVey in some form or another that was theistic.

I'll think more on this however, im cooking bacon and i think its burning as im typing this, taking to long to think this out.

edit: the entire underside of my bacon is black....

 

[ScottySatan]

However if the man thinks so little of me since I am not an atheist and automatically a "devil worshiper" I can't help but be angry with him for such blatant ignoring of Satanism as being around before Anton LaVey in some form or another that was theistic.

I argue that everyone, EVERYONE who has ever had you on their radar, judges you similarly; Not just on your beliefs, but on every conceivable aspect of your being, at every moment. It is impossible not to do so. The CoS just doesn't spare your personal feelings if it's a negative judgement. Their defence is "Satan isn't nice".

 

[jasonwill2]

I argue that everyone, EVERYONE who has ever had you on their radar, judges you similarly; Not just on your beliefs, but on every conceivable aspect of your being, at every moment. It is impossible not to do so. The CoS just doesn't spare your personal feelings if it's a negative judgement. Their defence is "Satan isn't nice".

How cute, seeing as they dont beleive in him yet think only they are the true satanists despite there being theistic satanist groups before them. so i dont see how they can say "satan isnt nice"

edit: I just think that if there less so edgy about being anti-theist and maybe not raging bigots in general they would have good doctrines.

 

[Iti oj]

every one relax
or else

 

[ScottySatan]

How cute, seeing as they dont beleive in him yet think only they are the true satanists despite there being theistic satanist groups before them. so i dont see how they can say "satan isnt nice"

edit: I just think that if there less so edgy about being anti-theist and maybe not raging bigots in general they would have good doctrines.

While many do have a very condescending attitude, the CoS people I know aren't raging about this at all. They don't really talk about it. They're kind of indifferent about what you believe.

 

[jasonwill2]

While many do have a very condescending attitude, the CoS people I know aren't raging about this at all. They don't really talk about it. They're kind of indifferent about what you believe.

Oh, my problem is with the leadership, not with the members who can be really awesome people.

 

[Adramelek]

Applying what works best for one has always been my stance Scotty. I support you 100%. And you are right, looking at his writings objectively without preconceived prejudices, Peter H. Gilmore is a much better writer than LaVey in many ways.

/Adramelek\

 

[Narrathoth - The Stampede]

Peter Gilmore is only a better writer than LaVey in the notion that it doesn't require several rereadings in order to gain a comprehensive understanding of the literature and intent behind it.

If you ask me, its rather elementary considering how politically fascist it is pertaining to the goals and motives of the CoS, which heavily excludes the individual on all levels.

 

[Adramelek]

Well, Narrathoth, Anton LaVey was a much better composer of rituals than Gilmore will ever be. LaVey's "Die Elektrischen Vorspiele" (The Electric Prelude) is a testimonial to this. I think one of the reasons behind the beauty and poetry of LaVey's early Works is because from 1966-1975 c.e. he actually believed in the literal existence of what he Understood to be "Satan".

Xeper.
/Adramelek\
Gnothi seauton!

 

[Narrathoth - The Stampede]

Sincerity is often a gateway for affluence.

I believe Mr. LaVey was fairly straightforward with this.

 

[jasonwill2]

Peter Gilmore is only a better writer than LaVey in the notion that it doesn't require several rereadings in order to gain a comprehensive understanding of the literature and intent behind it.

If you ask me, its rather elementary considering how politically fascist it is pertaining to the goals and motives of the CoS, which heavily excludes the individual on all levels.

Well I have only read a really large excerpt of the Satanic Scriptures (like a chapter talking about the Pentagonal revision in extreme detail), but I can definitely say it was rather concerned with the collective and pretty extreme. I still don't understand how you could have civil liberties for very long when he went on about Lex Talionis.

 

[Mindmaster]

My problem with CoS and Gilmore are totally in relation to their 'my way or the highway' attitude. Very little of the the Satanic Scriptures isn't complete regurgitation and other than the fact that it uses more modern language (considering LaVey was actually older than my parents!) and what ISN'T simply a parody of LaVey's work reeks of extremism and all the stupidity that that concept entails. These neo-LaVeyites don't even compare to the types of people that the CoS used to represent. It doesn't really mean anything to them it's just something to make them feel cool about while they're LARPing Vampire: The Masquerade. If anything it is this death of the impetus of the organization that has destroyed it in my eye. All that being said I have a great respect for LaVey and what he tried to do even if he maybe wasn't always the best man to do it. Under LaVey it was a much more libertine group which I admired -- under Gilmore it is a much more alien elite skeptical group that has failed to achieve anything.

I used to consider myself of 'Church of Satan' type Satanist but as my own experiences grew beyond that seemingly narrow definition of a Satanist. No doubt, for some people it will work and the joy of it is it's sheer simplicity. It is a good philosophy, but it isn't really a religion. My sticking point with it even in the past is that anything can really be done to unhealthy excess -- at that juncture it is not a practice of improvement but of self-destruction. LaVeyean Satanism doesn't really address this possibility too much and most would seem to simply use it as a license to do whatever they want. I never really did rituals in my 'CoS phase' because I didn't feel the need for it. I vary rarely do such things now after moving toward theism... My process is much more internal and developmental and I really don't need the silly bag of tricks anymore... We all grow up.. I guess..

I didn't make a leap of faith -- I simply learned to trust in what I know. Skepticism is healthy until you paint yourself into corners with it and shut down your thought process by denying the validity of your data. I've had experiences a strictly atheist viewpoint cannot process so I merely decided to stop pretending. The CoS has really become a snobby affair -- dress the right way, talk the right way, be friends with the *right* people or go no where with it. It's just a social affair with a baphomet on the cover... I despised these types of folks in my youth -- where are we without rebellion? Conformity = death for the real Satanist regardless of what labels they use to describe themselves. The moment you decide to bend over and lick a boot is the exact time where your claim to anything Satanic has left you. That is what the modern CoS is about... Shoe polishing... er... I am saying that very politely for this forum.. HAHA

 

[Mindmaster]

Well I have only read a really large excerpt of the Satanic Scriptures (like a chapter talking about the Pentagonal revision in extreme detail), but I can definitely say it was rather concerned with the collective and pretty extreme. I still don't understand how you could have civil liberties for very long when he went on about Lex Talionis.

Lex Talionis reduced to simplest terms is the same crap every rogue jihad sect is on about. It is nothing new, unique, or even something to embrace or be proud of. You killed my sister so now we kill your wife, you stole this so I can take that from you, tit for tat, but where exactly does it stop? Anyone with half a brain can see that this doesn't actually pan out for a stable future. Society-wide such a way of life would be destructive. Some people will be taking vengeance others will simply be abusing the system to get their way.

Historically, vendettas or blood-feuds were and accepted way to solve personal legal disputes but they were done on familial or clan lines. The prize of course is mutually assured destruction for all the persons involved it simply is a matter of time. That is why it fell out favor with the 'modern way' of dealing with things because smart folks watched their rivals destroy each other and took over. A few people started figuring out how silly it was and quit.

 

[Adramelek]

I must applaud Mindmaster's words. The Church of Satan has become nothing more than an empty shell of what it once was - a corpse without a soul. However, the Temple of Set thrives and has always thrived. It's members take its name literally, and they are all always, for the most part, open to new ideas and approaches to Magic. The ToS still remains vital, alive, and open-minded as it takes its Infernal Mandate literally - the one true Temple of the Prince of Darkness on Earth. Hail, Set!!

Xeper.
/Adramelek\
Gnothi seauton!

 

[Billy goatee]

There are sensical reasons why Satanism should be exclusive, but why should Satanism not be exclusive?

 

[jasonwill2]

There are sensical reasons why Satanism should be exclusive, but why should Satanism not be exclusive?

Are you ******* serious? The CoS leadership is a bunch of elitists who are just as self-righteous as some of the worst pulpit ponders. It's that kind of counter-productive pride that is bred from exclusiveness.

EVERYONE has the potential for the higher arts of the occult, but not everyone will reach it or are willing. But I see no reason to look down on others because of that, or to treat someone less human just because they might believe differently than me. That leads to a very slippery slope.

 

[Billy goatee]

The CoS is imperfect, and in many ways undesirable. However, the failings of the CoS real or imagined has been covered extensively everywhere.

I believe this thread was about the other side of the story, which is a defensible point on its own and deserves a listen.

Also, the thread seemed to be more about LaVeyan Satanism than the current CoS. More abut THe Satanic Bible than the Satanic Scriptures.

 

[jasonwill2]

The CoS is imperfect, and in many ways undesirable. However, the failings of the CoS real or imagined has been covered extensively everywhere.

I believe this thread was about the other side of the story, which is a defensible point on its own and deserves a listen.

Also, the thread seemed to be more about LaVeyan Satanism than the current CoS. More abut THe Satanic Bible than the Satanic Scriptures.

Well once I get past LaVey's gross misunderstanding of Buddhism The Yezidz the word "devil" and Hinduism I can like the work somewhat. Also lots of the "devils" called upon in the large list seem so out of place.