A cold case. When murders or accidents are labeled as suicide

[Estro Felino]

I was trying to help but you are not a helpful reporter. I can't understand what happended and getting it out of you would take hours (I don't want to invest). Sorry, but I'm out.

I understand. But I just want people to realize that what some people claim is absurd.
A woman would never drive 100 km...then have an accident...then kill her own son...and commit suicide.
It is impossible.

Au contraire...I think that certain people hid the two bodies. And in order to save themselves they made up the absurdest story ever.

 

[Estro Felino]

@Heyo
Please don't be harsh on me
English is not my first language

I found you a video auf Deutsch about this case.

 

[Heyo]

@Heyo
Please don't be harsh on me
English is not my first language

I found you a video auf Deutsch about this case.

OK, that helps. So, it was a minor collision during which nobody was hurt. What I still don't know is whether she still was en route to the shop she said she wanted to go. (According to her husband, I presume.)
What is interesting is that she was depressive and (recently?) started a therapy. When you read package inserts of anti depressants, many list "increase in suicidal tendencies" as a possible side effect.
Another question is, if the cars stopped in the tunnel after the accident. (I assume so after your first parts of the story.) She might have had claustrophobia (again, possibly enhanced by her medication) so she fled the tunnel.
Or she saw something that frightened her.

What we do know, (assuming the reports are correct) is
1. She wasn't hurt during the accident.
2. It is very likely that she left the site on her own.
3. Her actions were most likely not rational. The cause for her fear or delusion is unknown but medication is a possible suspect.

 

[Estro Felino]

@Heyo

1. She wasn't hurt during the accident.
What about her son? They tried to cover up the news of his fractured skull

2. It is very likely that she left the site on her own.
The witnesses who saw her in the wood are not credible because they arrived later, when the woman had already disappeared.
The first witnesses who were in front of the tunnel from the very first, claim they never saw her coming out of the tunnel.

3. Her actions were most likely not rational. The cause for her fear or delusion is unknown but medication is a possible suspect.
Her husband says she was the healthiest person on Earth. And she would have never hurt Joele
He thinks that something horrible happened to her in the wood and these perpetrators made up the lie of the suicide...and the filicide.
To save themselves . To avoid a trial and jail people are disposed to make up the absurdest lies.


Tell me @Heyo.
I am a very rational person. I will never believe that a woman commits suicide after a car accident.
It is the absurdest reasoning ever.
Because people commit suicide at home. In their town. Not in a random place after a car accident.
If she wanted to die, then why did she brake during the accident?
Do you believe it is possible?

 

[Heyo]

@Heyo

1. She wasn't hurt during the accident.
What about her son? They tried to cover up the news of his fractured skull

In the video the accident was described as little more than a fender bender. (Which can happen even at 100 km/h as I described earlier.) But if he was injured, even his skull fractured during the accident, then the actions of the mother may be a result of her grief and guilt.

2. It is very likely that she left the site on her own.
The witnesses who saw her in the wood are not credible because they arrived later, when the woman had already disappeared.
The first witnesses who were in front of the tunnel from the very first, claim they never saw her coming out of the tunnel.

A tunnel has two openings. I don't think what wasn't seen is of much relevance.

3. Her actions were most likely not rational. The cause for her fear or delusion is unknown but medication is a possible suspect.
Her husband says she was the healthiest person on Earth. And she would have never hurt Joele
He thinks that something horrible happened to her in the wood and these perpetrators made up the lie of the suicide...and the filicide.
To save themselves . To avoid a trial and jail people are disposed to make up the absurdest lies.


Tell me @Heyo.
I am a very rational person. I will never believe that a woman commits suicide after a car accident.

Not under normal circumstances. But the video mentioned her depression, so she wasn't the "healthiest person on Earth".
Anti depressants are useful but especially in the first weeks they can really mess up your brain.

It is the absurdest reasoning ever.
Because people commit suicide at home. In their town. Not in a random place after a car accident.

When you plan your suicide.

If she wanted to die, then why did she brake during the accident?
Do you believe it is possible?

Yes. I think it is possible that she wasn't rational when she left the site. People act weird when under shock.
You haven't answered the question if the crash site is on the way from her home to the shop she allegedly wanted to visit. If not, she might have already been disoriented before the crash. (Or the husband was lying about her motive.)
What happened in the woods can all be attributed to natural circumstances. She might have climbed the mast to orient herself and slipped. Then it wouldn't even have been a suicide.

 

[Estro Felino]

When you plan your suicide.

.

In criminology records I didn't find a case of "suicidal raptus on a joyful day".


Btw... @Heyo...the truth is that all that the media tell us is the result of testimonies that nobody has ever listened to.
I have never heard these eyewitnesses with my own ears.
So...until then I will never believe that she went into the wood, just like that.
As a lawyer I must consider that people can have a motive to stage a fake suicide (the filicide is even more horrible ) just to get away with it. Just to avoid jail.
And so therefore....first let's figure out what these witnesses really said (and if they really exist).
Then we will discuss about the possibility of the suicide and the filicide.

 

[Estro Felino]

You haven't answered the question if the crash site is on the way from her home to the shop she allegedly wanted to visit.

No. She never went to that shop. Highway cameras confirm it. She probably wanted to visit a monument 20 km away from the crash site. 120 km away from home
She had almost arrived.

 

[Heyo]

In criminology records I didn't find a case of "suicidal raptus on a joyful day".

Do we know it was "a joyful day"?
Most attempted suicides are carried out within minutes to hours of the first thought. And most peoples saved are happy about it and describe the urge as not rational and a lapse of reason.

Then we will discuss about the possibility of the suicide and the filicide.

Which might just be accidents.
We have the possibility of one woman alleged to be depressive and possibly under the influence of psychoactive drugs, in a stress/shock situation acting irrational on one hand and a possible conspiracy of multiple actors no-one has ever seen on the other. I know on which side Occams Razor cuts in this instance.

 

[Estro Felino]

Which might just be accidents.

Exactly. They might have died in the accident. Or they might have had an accident in the wood.
But their bodies were hidden and concealment of corpse is still a crime.

 

[Heyo]

Exactly. They might have died in the accident. Or they might have had an accident in the wood.
But their bodies were hidden and concealment of corpse is still a crime.

Wait ... that is new information. You never mentioned (nor did the video) that the bodies where actively hidden/concealed. How so?

 

[Estro Felino]

Wait ... that is new information. You never mentioned (nor did the video) that the bodies where actively hidden/concealed. How so?

Viviana's body was covered by some twigs.
So...when someone falls from a pylon...I guess she falls over the twigs. No underneath them.
Joele too was hidden under a bush of Pistacia lentiscus.

One more thing: the procurator has sealed the files. Sub judice takes place only in very grave cases of homicide or organized crime.
If it really dealt with a suicide...there would be no need to seal the files. All files.
Including videos, phone records, photos, testimonies, calls.

 

[Heyo]

Viviana's body was covered by some twigs.
So...when someone falls from a pylon...I guess she falls over the twigs. No underneath them.
Joele too was hidden under a bush of Pistacia lentiscus.

One more thing: the procurator has sealed the files. Sub judice takes place only in very grave cases of homicide or organized crime.
If it really dealt with a suicide...there would be no need to seal the files. All files.
Including videos, phone records, photos, testimonies, calls.

That may be new information (and the way you describe it doesn't convince me that there was some deliberate hiding by humans) but it doesn't change the story until she went into the woods. And with all the files sealed (which is unusual, I concede), I see no chance for us to deduce any more than we already have.

 

[Estro Felino]

@Heyo
In the Italian judicial system the family of the victim is called "person offended by the crime".
This person has the right to have access to the file.
Viviana's husband, Daniel has hired a team of criminologist, investigators, forensic physicians.
They wrote a report where they demonstrate that Viviana could have never fallen from that pylon.

Besides...I do not think that the district procurator's office's behavior is fair.
They have prevented Daniele's team from having access to the files.


I am 100% sure that in those files there are the names of those who concealed Viviana's abd Joele's bodies.
All my colleagues believe the exact same thing.