A churches right to choose.

[turk179]

Do you believe that a church has the right to pick and choose who is allowed to be a member. For example, here is a hypothetical situation. A certain church believes that men are evil and that only woman can be a member. Or a Christian church that will not allow gay members. Of course there are many other possibilities.
Thoughts and opinions please.

 

[Jaymes]

Of course. They're just inviting people to leave in protest if they bar certain people from joining, but that's their choice... besides, there are already some other much more accepting religions around for those that have been shunned by other religions.

 

[Bishka]

A Church is just like any other organization. Like the Girl Scouts, Boy Scouts, Elks Club, etc. They have a right to pick and choose who they want as members and if they break the rules, then they have a right to ban or excommunicate them.

 

[Scuba Pete]

What becky said: they legally have the right. However, ethically they are bankrupt.

 

[jeffrey]

I agree. It's a private org, so they they can do as they will, as long as it is not discriminatory.

 

[jorylore]

Yes. I have to agree that any religious organization does have the right to choose it's members. It's doctrines outline what it stands for and it would want to choose those that live in harmony with those standards. If their doctrines are in harmony with Bible truth and the truth is what one is seeking, then they should have no problem in conforming to the churches doctrines. After all, they are making changes for God and not for man.

To know what the truth is though, you have to read the Bible for yourself.

 

[turk179]

I agree. It's a private org, so they they can do as they will, as long as it is not discriminatory.

This is an excellent point. Let me toss a question at everyone(lightly of course.) What if said church discriminates according to church doctrine? Would this be acceptable as long as it was in the confines of the church walls.

Jeffrey's point is valid in this thread but my question may be off topic. I can start a new thread if anyone thinks that it is necessary.

 

[Bishka]

This is an excellent point. Let me toss a question at everyone(lightly of course.) What if said church discriminates according to church doctrine? Would this be acceptable as long as it was in the confines of the church walls.

Jeffrey's point is valid in this thread but my question may be off topic. I can start a new thread if anyone thinks that it is necessary.

You mean their doctrine is discriminatory? Sorry, bit sick here so everything is not going in, or basically I'm a few crayons short of a box right now.

 

[turk179]

Yes. I have to agree that any religious organization does have the right to choose it's members. It's doctrines outline what it stands for and it would want to choose those that live in harmony with those standards. If their doctrines are in harmony with Bible truth and the truth is what one is seeking, then they should have no problem in conforming to the churches doctrines. After all, they are making changes for God and not for man.

To know what the truth is though, you have to read the Bible for yourself.

What if we were talking about a pagan church? Would what you said still apply?

 

[turk179]

You mean their doctrine is discriminatory? Sorry, bit sick here so everything is not going in, or basically I'm a few crayons short of a box right now.

Your fine. It was a good question. Say for example that the doctrine stated that Chinese people were not allowed as members of a particular church. The church would give relief to anyone that needed it even people that were not members, as long as they were not Chinese. Chinese people are of Satan according to church doctrine in this church. The doctrine does not necessarily discriminate but the church discriminates according to what the doctrine states. Geeez. Now I'm confused.:help:

 

[Bishka]

Your fine. It was a good question. Say for example that the doctrine stated that Chinese people were not allowed as members of a particular church. The church would give relief to anyone that needed it even people that were not members, as long as they were not Chinese. Chinese people are of Satan according to church doctrine in this church. The doctrine does not necessarily discriminate but the church discriminates according to what the doctrine states. Geeez. Now I'm confused.:help:

Well, as much as I'm going to get flamed, I'm going to say that is fine. It may be 1 or 2 or maybe 50 churches that act that way, but there will always be memebers of the Church who will disobey or other Churches who will help those people that the discrimnatory church didn't.

 

[jeffrey]

Your fine. It was a good question. Say for example that the doctrine stated that Chinese people were not allowed as members of a particular church. The church would give relief to anyone that needed it even people that were not members, as long as they were not Chinese. Chinese people are of Satan according to church doctrine in this church. The doctrine does not necessarily discriminate but the church discriminates according to what the doctrine states. Geeez. Now I'm confused.:help:

I'm sure if someone pressed the issue, they would get sued.

 

[jorylore]

What if we were talking about a pagan church? Would what you said still apply?

Thanks for the quick reply and congrats on the new addition.

The question was does a church have the right to choose it's members and my answer would still have to be yes.

It makes me sad to think there are religious orgn. who discriminate against people on the basis of race or gender. And even sadder to know that such a religion, be it pagan or not, would appeal to certain people. That such hate, for no real reason, exists and hides itself in the shadow of a church, where spiritual guidance and help is suppose to be offered.

But we didn't make the world, did we?

 

[turk179]

Well I agree with everyone so far. Chances are if you are not wanted in a particular church there is a good possibility that you don't believe what they do anyways. Probably best to find a more tolerant church that more closely resembles your own beliefs. NetDoc and jorylore make good points. Ethically speaking this may not be the best choice but who is to argue.

And BTW thanks jorylore .

 

[CaptainXeroid]

Whether I or any of us agree with it or not, why would a church or any other private group not be allowed to choose its members? I'm curious...those who don't think a church should be allowed to choose its members, are you suggesting that some third party dictate to a church how they should select their members?

 

[nutshell]

What becky said: they legally have the right. However, ethically they are bankrupt.

Oh, please. Give me a break.

Everyone is so quick to jump on racial and gender issues, but churches discriminate all the time and a lot less than that and yes, it is fine.

I believe it is more ethical to have a set of standards that are firmly held and lived up too.

For example, to be baptized into the LDS church, one must show a broken heart and contrite spirit. If they do not, then they will not be allowed membership. This is discrimination, but it keeps the established standard in tact. Why anyone would have a problem with such discrimination is beyond me. If a church or any organization for that matter discriminated in a way you found offensive then don't participate in that organization. You don't have to sue! Just move on to where you fit in.

 

[Booko]

This is an excellent point. Let me toss a question at everyone(lightly of course.) What if said church discriminates according to church doctrine? Would this be acceptable as long as it was in the confines of the church walls.

Jeffrey's point is valid in this thread but my question may be off topic. I can start a new thread if anyone thinks that it is necessary.

How could the gov't enforce any kind of anti-discrimination rule on a religious organization, and not nullify freedom of religion?

I don't think religion is on a par with a golfing club.

Uh...no pun intended. Really.

 

[nutshell]

How could the gov't enforce any kind of anti-discrimination rule on a religious organization, and not nullify freedom of religion?

I don't think religion is on a par with a golfing club.

Uh...no pun intended. Really.

They can't. Unless they are breaking the law, in which case they can step in, but often don't.

 

[Booko]

Your fine. It was a good question. Say for example that the doctrine stated that Chinese people were not allowed as members of a particular church. The church would give relief to anyone that needed it even people that were not members, as long as they were not Chinese. Chinese people are of Satan according to church doctrine in this church. The doctrine does not necessarily discriminate but the church discriminates according to what the doctrine states. Geeez. Now I'm confused.:help:

If they're not taking public money to give out their charitable works to non-Chinese people, then it's their business. (Though one might argue that they are taking money by not paying property tax, but that's another thread.)

It might make for a morally despicable religious organization, but it's still their business.

 

[Draka]

How could the gov't enforce any kind of anti-discrimination rule on a religious organization, and not nullify freedom of religion?

I don't think religion is on a par with a golfing club.

Uh...no pun intended. Really.

Ok, off the wall point here...but here's the catch 22: For all means and purposes a church is a business. It has employees, pays bills and utilities (with which they are also classified as businesses). However, since they are in the business of religion the government can't touch what they do. Were it any other business that discriminated against anyone they would be sued and the government would enact fines and penalties. Churches, however, can get away with whatever they like because they are under the umbrella of religion. They make money, are tax exampt, and have no regulation from the government. Dang they have it good.

That said, I do think that a religious group has the ability to decide who it allows within the group. I know that certainly covens are very selective as to who joins. Not everyone is accepted to the coven. That is more likely having to do with the person's actions, beliefs, and growth status and how they compare with the coven's, but still you get my drift. I certainly don't condone, personally, the discriminating of anyone who wishes to worship a certain way simply because of who or what they are though. So legally, do they have the "right"? Yes. Do I believe it is right? Not really...depends on each circumstance.