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5 Reasons, why I believe in reincarnation

non-duality

Member
  1. Less than 50% of all embryos will reach birth. Will this souls never have an human existence? Would that be justice?
  2. Can there be an eternal punishment for a short time life? Would that be justice?
  3. How could there be a “hell” as a place far from God as God is omnipresent? This place is just an illusion, but it's our illusion. And we only have to overcome this illusion.
  4. As “God created man in his[/her] own image” would God condemn his[/her] own images and be happy about this. Wouldn't he[/she] be more like the shepherd who will not rest until the last sheep is found?
  5. If God is almighty, will he[/she] forsake the wish of a soul to come once more into human existence. For example in order to help others? And if God does not allow that, why? Because it is not possible to God???
 

non-duality

Member
They certainly will ask you and me why we are on this thread. About myself: I grew up in catholic faith. But it was more forced on me. Between 14 and 23 I had an atheistic phase. But from 23 onwards I had so many experiences that I became a believer again. If you call yourself an atheist, I simply don't believe you. There is something you believe in maybe it's yourself. May be it's the good in human beings. God is your true self. God is the good in human beings.
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
non-duality said:
They certainly will ask you and me why we are on this thread. About myself: I grew up in catholic faith. But it was more forced on me. Between 14 and 23 I had an atheistic phase. But from 23 onwards I had so many experiences that I became a believer again. If you call yourself an atheist, I simply don't believe you. There is something you believe in maybe it's yourself. May be it's the good in human beings. God is your true self. God is the good in human beings.
I can probably match your 5 and then some! but I will have to leave it till later; my wife has come home!
 

ChrisP

Veteran Member
non-duality said:
  1. Less than 50% of all embryos will reach birth. Will this souls never have an human existence? Would that be justice?
  2. Can there be an eternal punishment for a short time life? Would that be justice?
  3. How could there be a “hell” as a place far from God as God is omnipresent? This place is just an illusion, but it's our illusion. And we only have to overcome this illusion.
  4. As “God created man in his[/her] own image” would God condemn his[/her] own images and be happy about this. Wouldn't he[/she] be more like the shepherd who will not rest until the last sheep is found?
  5. If God is almighty, will he[/she] forsake the wish of a soul to come once more into human existence. For example in order to help others? And if God does not allow that, why? Because it is not possible to God???
It's been a while since I've read the bible, but as to your first point: God only judges those who understand the difference between right and wrong, therefore embryo's, young children/babies and crazy people (like me :D ) are exempt.

Second point : The shorter the test the easier it is to pass.

Third Point : I neither know nor care about hell. I think it's existence probably depends upon the nature of heaven.

Fourth Point : Only an Abrahamic God could answer that.

Fifth Point : As above.
 

Jaymes

The cake is a lie
A reminder of the rules:

9.) We will not tolerate any debate about a religion in its Individual Religion forum, NO OUTSIDE DEBATE OR VIEW POINTS ARE ALLOWED. This rule is strictly enforced. If you wish to debate a certain religion the proper place for that is in the Debates sections.
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
Less than 50% of all embryos will reach birth. Will this souls never have an human existence? Would that be justice?
No it wouldn't, I agree. IMHO that incarnation is possibly the one where pain is learned, or maybe the parents have to go through the lesson of losing a child. I can't think of much worse torture for parents.

Can there be an eternal punishment for a short time life? Would that be justice?
I'm not so sure on that one; perhaps if the lesson was proportional to the length of the life.

How could there be a “hell” as a place far from God as God is omnipresent? This place is just an illusion, but it's our illusion. And we only have to overcome this illusion.
I don't believe there is a hell.

As “God created man in his[/her] own image” would God condemn his[/her] own images and be happy about this. Wouldn't he[/she] be more like the shepherd who will not rest until the last sheep is found?
I quite agree.

If God is almighty, will he[/she] forsake the wish of a soul to come once more into human existence. For example in order to help others? And if God does not allow that, why? Because it is not possible to God???
I see it as being a much greater 'plan' than that.

Perhaps you'll forgive me if I describe my understanding of reincarnation (for those who read it recently in another thread, sorry for the repetition);

We are here to grow; all life is attuned to growth, perpetuation, and lastly to decay. By definition, the 'Almighty being', 'God', the 'force of nature' - I call him God- promotes growth. Spiritual growth as well as physical growth. That such a being would shower some with advantages beyond the comprehension of those born devoid of any hope of anything but the most basic form of existence is contrary to the essence of such a being. That is one of the reasons why I believe in reincarnation - to me it is the only possibility.


I used to explain my Idea of the life of a soul by comparison with that of the life of an individual, in his own lifetime. When a baby is born, he is cared for by his mother until he is able to go to kindergarten, from which he will progress to increasingly demanding places of learning. At each stage of scholastic evaluation, he can either be promoted, or go through the same content again until he is deemed qualified to progress.


For the mothers of babies, read God of all Souls; for each year in school, read each incarnations on Earth (maybe elsewhere?). Using that same analogy, life as an adult in a field that he has chosen is the same for the soul who, by his own choice, commits himself to a particular task of self improvement. The last stage, at the end of all the lessons that are to be achieved lies the ultimate incarnation; I would propose those of Jesus Christ, Buddha....any example of a magnificent being in whatever religion. Basically they all have very much in common; they have all reached the same level of competence and are ready for 'the next step'. Whatever that is; we, with only the understanding of matter we can see can only begin to imagine what lies thereafter.;)
 
Orichalcum said:
As far as i'm concerned there is no God nor anything else beyond this life.

Can you explain why people get possesed by spirits that they have never met if there is no life after. What is your opinion about this event.
 
ChrisP said:
It's been a while since I've read the bible, but as to your first point: God only judges those who understand the difference between right and wrong, therefore embryo's, young children/babies and crazy people (like me :D ) are exempt.

Second point : The shorter the test the easier it is to pass.

Third Point : I neither know nor care about hell. I think it's existence probably depends upon the nature of heaven.

Fourth Point : Only an Abrahamic God could answer that.

Fifth Point : As above.
Since we are talking about souls, what is your opinion on where the other souls are coming from since the world population had increased tremendously in the past years. Back in the 1970s I believe we only had 3 to 4 billion people which means souls to me. Today we have well over 6 billion people. Where did we get the new 2 billion souls?


On reincarnation, I agree with you on your first point
 

Fluffy

A fool
Your beliefs are very similar to my own non-duality. It is how I came to a belief in reincarnation, especially from a Christian perspective.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Ni, ND.

I have a few minutes now, so I'm going to give you my thoughts. Since they are from the perspective of a believing Latter-day Saint, I'm going to respond with comments stated as if they were fact. Knowing that you believe differently, please just assume that each of my statements begins with the words "I believe, and my religion teaches..."

non-duality said:
1. Less than 50% of all embryos will reach birth. Will this souls never have an human existence? Would that be justice?
This is only an issue if you believe the human soul (I'm assuming you are using this word as I would use the word "spirit") existed prior to its birth. I don't know of very many people who believe it did, but I am one of them. God created us spiritually before we were ever born and that we existed in His presence -- in spirit, not corporeal form -- for an unspecified amount of time. We have existed as cognizant entities for perhaps billions of years, during which time we had an existence of sorts. We had emotions, intelligence and free will. We just didn't have a physical body, but we existed nevertheless.
2. Can there be an eternal punishment for a short time life? Would that be justice?
No and no. There will be an eternal punishment for some, but not for a large proportion of us, and this punishment will not be based solely on 70 or 80 years of mortality. It will be based on our decisions and behavior in our pre-mortal life (as I explained in answer to your first question), our mortal life, and a post-mortal existence during which our dis-embodied spirits will continue to be able to learn, grow, make decisions and progress. We we exist in this state until our physical bodies are resurrected and reunited with our spirits. This life is extremely important, but it is not the only part of our existence on which we will ultimately be judged. Because each of us has a physical body, we are subject to disease, injury and death. We are also subject to temptations of the flesh that we did not experience in our pre-mortal existence and will not experience as we await the resurrection. During this port-mortal period, barriers to our understanding will be removed, as will a lot of our "cultural and environmental baggage."

3. How could there be a “hell” as a place far from God as God is omnipresent? This place is just an illusion, but it's our illusion. And we only have to overcome this illusion.
Omnipresence is a word that never appears in the Bible. God is never said to be everywhere at once. On the contrary, He is repeatedly said to be "in Heaven." Your assumption makes sense only if you also believe there is no Heaven (as I realize is probably the case). But for anyone who believes in a Heaven, it is entirely reasonable to believe in a Hell, as well. Every state of being has its opposite, and Hell is the opposite of Heaven. If Heaven does exist, so must Hell. If Heaven doesn't exist either, then my argument falls apart. If Heaven exists, yours does.

4. As “God created man in his[/her] own image” would God condemn his[/her] own images and be happy about this. Wouldn't he[/she] be more like the shepherd who will not rest until the last sheep is found?
Of course God wants all of us to return safely home, but the fact that He gave us our free agency (i.e. free will, free choice) guarantees that He will lose some. The fact that, by the time His entire plan has played out, everyone will have been given ample opportunity to make an informed and impartial decision as to what he wants to believe and how he wants to behave. It is because God loves us so much that He is going to do everything in His power -- except take away our free agency -- to make sure we have every possible chance to be "found."

5. If God is almighty, will he[/she] forsake the wish of a soul to come once more into human existence. For example in order to help others? And if God does not allow that, why? Because it is not possible to God???
God will allow with a far greater opportunity -- that of progressing forever, having the potential to ultimately become as He is. Depending upon how we live, (in our pre-mortal, mortal, and post-mortal/pre-resurrection existence) we will be in a position to help others, for instance, in ways more far-reaching than we can even begin to imagine. We are gods in embryo. I'd rather just progress eternally as myself than return to this same earth over and over again as a different individual.

I'd be interested in your responses.

Kathryn
 

non-duality

Member
GodLovesUs

Back in the 1970s I believe we only had 3 to 4 billion people which means souls to me. Today we have well over 6 billion people. Where did we get the new 2 billion souls?



We know from science that every 10th sun has planets. I don't believe we are the only high developed life in universe.




Katzpur

God created us spiritually before we were ever born and that we existed in His presence



I even believe, God was always there. And God is our real being. So we have never been created, but we think we are separate from God. Like a wave emerges from the sea but in fact is one with the sea.




Katzpur

If Heaven does exist, so must Hell. If Heaven doesn't exist either, then my argument falls apart. If Heaven exists, yours does.



Heaven and hell are our own imagination of the world we live in. But I don't take heaven as the goal. God is the goal. Things that have been created will sooner or later disappear. What was there for ever will be there forever. That's just God.


Katzpur

Of course God wants all of us to return safely home, but the fact that He gave us our free agency (i.e. free will, free choice) guarantees that He will lose some



Every river will sooner or later reach the sea. Every soul will sooner or later reach God. We choose our own goals for our lives. But as long as our goals are less than the supreme one, to realise we where never separated form God (=unconditional love). We will go on searching.




Katzpur

We are gods in embryo.



Exactly
 

non-duality

Member
Jensa said:
A reminder of the rules:

9.) We will not tolerate any debate about a religion in its Individual Religion forum, NO OUTSIDE DEBATE OR VIEW POINTS ARE ALLOWED. This rule is strictly enforced. If you wish to debate a certain religion the proper place for that is in the Debates sections.
If necessary move it to an other place. I was member of catholic church for almost 20 years, so I think I cannot be so wrong in this thread.
 

non-duality

Member
ChrisP

Only an Abrahamic God could answer that.



How many Gods do you believe are there? God is one, it's only thought to be another God.

But partly I agree: Isaiah 55:9: “As high as heaven is above the earth ... as high are my thoughts above yours” Our thoughts are certainly lower, but anyway we are created as Gods own image, so we are able to have a glimmer of that truth.




Katzpur

God will allow with a far greater opportunity [than coming back into human form again(---put here inside by non-duality---)] that of progressing forever, having the potential to ultimately become as He is.



But again: if someone wants to come to help, will God refuse it? Don't you believe Jesus will come a second time? Don't you believe Eliah has come back as John the Baptist? Does that mean the free will of which you spoke earlier we have to give up if we come to heaven? Is it free will, if God refuses the soul to have an other human experience? Isn't it also progressing to help others?
 

ChrisP

Veteran Member
non-duality said:
How many Gods do you believe are there? God is one, it's only thought to be another God.
There are no gods. There is only the source of all things. This is what most Christians believe God to be. I don't agree, but seeing as that is the point of the thread.
 

Ori

Angel slayer
GodLovesUs said:
Can you explain why people get possesed by spirits that they have never met if there is no life after. What is your opinion about this event.
It is all in the mind, mental illness and such.
 
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