1robin vs The_Fisher_King Part Deux: the evidence that Yahweh is God rather than another God

[The_Fisher_King]

This being your claim, do you want to kick off?

 

[1robin]

This being your claim, do you want to kick off?

Well, let me simply start off with that claim.

I claim there is more evidence for Yahweh than Allah, and that the former is more rational than the later.

Is your position that the opposite is true or something else entirely?

 

[The_Fisher_King]

Well, let me simply start off with that claim.

I claim there is more evidence for Yahweh than Allah, and that the former is more rational than the later.

Is your position that the opposite is true or something else entirely?

I believe both exist, but Allaah/Allaat is the Higher Goddess.

 

[1robin]

I believe both exist, but Allaah/Allaat is the Higher Goddess.

1. Islam Believes Yahweh and Allah are the same being? Is that the sense in which you believe they both exist, or are you out on the fringe with this one as well?
2. I reject their both existing, but as far as what you believe do you believe both are equal or is one greater than the other?
3. Since Allah and Yahweh self identify as male then you really don't believe in the mainstream version of either.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

1. Islam Believes Yahweh and Allah are the same being? Is that the sense in which you believe they both exist, or are you out on the fringe with this one as well?
2. I reject their both existing, but as far as what you believe do you believe both are equal or is one greater than the other?
3. Since Allah and Yahweh self identify as male then you really don't believe in the mainstream version of either.

1. Islam doesn't believe anything. Different Muslims have their own beliefs which may or may not fall within mainstream understandings of Islaam.
Now, many Muslims do believe that Allaah and Yahweh are the same being. I happen not to.
2. For me, Allaah is the Higher Being (the Highest), and Yahweh a lower being. My beliefs are decidedly Gnostic, for what it's worth. As you have said, I'm very much on the fringes of Islaam. Similar sort of place to the Alawites (the faith of the current Syrian leader).
3. Yahweh is male, but Allaah is beyond any particular sex/gender, male or female (or otherwise).

 

[1robin]

1. Islam doesn't believe anything. Different Muslims have their own beliefs which may or may not fall within mainstream understandings of Islaam.
Now, many Muslims do believe that Allaah and Yahweh are the same being. I happen not to.

Let me clarify, after 13000 debates (including thousands with Muslims) and watching 100's of hours worth of Islamic Christian debates I would say that around 90% of the time the Muslim states that Allah and Yahweh are the same God. Conversely almost 99.9% of Christians deny that same claim.

2. For me, Allaah is the Higher Being (the Highest), and Yahweh a lower being. My beliefs are decidedly Gnostic, for what it's worth. As you have said, I'm very much on the fringes of Islaam. Similar sort of place to the Alawites (the faith of the current Syrian leader).

God is infinitely big, so as to be present at all points at all times. It is categorically impossible to be bigger than that. You must either mean Allah is better or something.

You went on to hit the nail on the head. You are on the fringe of Islam and do approach religion in a gnostic fashion. That basically means your metaphysical speculations have a hint of Islam within them. Gnosticism basically means to approach faith without revelation. This does not necessarily mean you are wrong but it does mean your argumentation is far less persuasive than mine.

A. My position is based upon reason, backed up by natural and revealed revelation. Which are all in harmony.
B. Your position claims it is based upon reason, but it is not backed up by natural and revealed revelation.

That is the cost of Gnosticism which is basically deism in a different colored set of clothes.

3. Yahweh is male, but Allaah is beyond any particular sex/gender, male or female (or otherwise).

Since Yahweh is non-material his identification of male is not understandable by mere humans and so can't be a deficit of any kind. Also Yahweh is identified as all knowing (possessing all knowledge) and so does not lack any knowledge concerning in any female context. Just the same as my being male does not limit my being a human, God's being male in no way detracts from his essence as a divine being. How can you know more than something possessing all knowledge.

I would bet serious money that Allah is specifically said to be male by the majority of Muslims and probably the Quran as well but even if that wasn't the case the belief of virtually all of Islam that Allah and Yahweh are the same being would make him male anyway.

However, even barring all this I do not see how transcending gender its self is a virtue to begin with.

BTW most theologian scholars who sum up God's nature consider him what officially termed a maximally great being. If you look up the philosophical issue of great making properties you can learn much more about Yahweh's nature.

Good to hear from you, and even if you did bore me as long as your polite I wouldn't accuse you of it, even by proxy.