“The Son is equal to his Father”

[Ajax]

169–181: Theophilus of Antioch​

...the three days before the luminaries were created are types of the Trinity, God, his Word, and his Wisdom.

— To Autolycus 2:15[31]

Matthew 28:19, (Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit) as appears in the current gospel, has been amended much later, because in all Eusebius of Caesarea texts from 300 to 336 AD, there are at least 16 (others claim 21) references to Matthew 28:19 and all contain the following text, instead of the current one..""Go ye and make disciples of all nations in my name, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you."

Specifically in:

Eusebius - Proof of the Gospel, chapter 6 and 7 (3 times). Eusebius of Caesarea: Demonstratio Evangelica. Tr. W.J. Ferrar (1920) -- Book 3
Eusebius - Church History Chapter 5, paragraph 2
Eusebius - In Praise of Constantine, chapter 16, paragraph 8.
He also mentions it in the Commentary on Psalms (4 times), in Theophany (4 times) and in the Commentary on Isaiah (2 times).

 

[Soapy]

Actually, Soapy, Kenny asked a good question. Maybe I missed your answer. This is one reason I have not replied to you for a while, because of your belligerent attitude. Kenny did ask a good question.

I speak only the truth… You don’t like the truth - is it belligerence for me to state the truth?

In any case, what was Kenny’s good question?

Kenny rarely answers questions when he knows it would count against him —- 5th Amendment!!!

Kenny knows he’s being disingenuous in many of his replies. He enjoys the pleasure of posting with a smirk on his lips thinking it flummulgates his opponent.

But he doesn’t realise that every disingenuous reply he makes condemns him. He fails to realise that it is not me he’s fighting but the truth… and the Spirit of truth - which is the Spirit of God.

And scripture tells us not to greive the spirit of God - which is absolutely true: If the truth is grieved (made out to be as nothing, or as fun, or to be as a joke) then there is no hope!!!

 

[Kenny]

Yes, that is so true…. Kenny, you are right… But we should at least show you the Pearls (of wisdom) so that you make yourself guilty in light of the revelation.

Romans 8:33-35
​

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

Romans 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

Interesting how you want to take and sit on the judgment seat. I think Lucifer tried that once.

 

[Sargonski]

The fact that the many authors of a work called the Bible, contradict each other, as well as themselves, makes the book completely unreliable. The same result applies to the times when the overwhelming majority of people were illiterate, the news were spread by hearsay and the author(s) who wrote what you uphold, were the last to write it, some 70 years after the death of Jesus. Let alone the fact that it was officially established 125 years after it was written.

1) 1 Cor 15:28 "When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things under him, so that God may be everything to every one."

2) 1 Cor 11:3 "But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a woman is her husband, and the head of Christ is God."

3) Rom 1:8 "First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ."

4) Acts 3:13 "The God of Abraham and of Isaac and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, glorified his servant Jesus.."

5) John 14:28 "for the Father is greater than I."

6) John 17:3 "And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent."

7) John 20:17 "I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God."

Many contradictions -- the problem not being trouble reading .. or as the apologists might say ... "One can make up what ever they want !! .. as if this is an argument for something

I suppose that if we mine scriptures without context, you can make it say whatever you want to

The problem is that 1) we have two different Gods speaking .. or 2) God is an irrational flip flopper, with the most petty and nasty of human failings and characteristicts .. genocidal maniac ... and so on.

and those are not good choices for the Biblical Monotheist .. or what I like to call "monotheism without a name" - cause none of the folks I have run into know the name of "The Father" -- "Hallowed be thy Name" they supposedly worship. The name of the God in the Bible they are worshiping .. the one that is "The Father" that Jesus is referring to .. the Voice from the Clouds..

and no Ken -- Paul's vision does not count as "meeting Jesus" -- as in like the disciples who hung with the man. Paul knows little of Christs life or his Teachings - having never met the man in the flesh.. his job title was to persecute Christians.. not becoming a christian until years after the death of Lord Jesus. Paul's writings tell us almost nothing of the life of Jesus or his teachings .. does not have Jesus speaking .. is not "first person" - nor is it a first person account .. Understand ? In a conversation about the divinity of Jesus - a God in the Flesh who descended to Earth is the claim .. Equal to "The Father" Paul is of no help .. having never known the fellow while alive on this earth.. some vision he had .. likening the sightings of Mary in the Clouds by the 500 to his vision .. which unfortunately is no support for the physical resurrection .. but we digress.

Contradictions - Tell is Ken .. if you wish to be put right with "The Father" and get into heaven .. according to Jesus (not Paul) - Matt 7:24 .. you need to Do the Will of the Father .. Follow the Commands of God.

Jesus is referencing a pre-existing concept - how one is put right with God- the answer - by doing what God commands "The Will of the Father" 21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

So Ken crying out Lord Lord .. thinking "Faith alone" will save a person - James 2 .. Such a faith is worthless and foolish"...

Just saying .. but now we have a devout believer in 50 BC .. wanting to follow the Will of God.. to be put right with God .. get into heaven. This was to simplify things for those who need to take baby steps.. to make things real easy.

How to follow the Will of the Father Ken -- this is what you need to help those of us with desperate desire to follow God's word .. .. like the fellow in 50BC .. what do you tell him to do ? We have a situation where the Father has sinned - at home he has a pregnant wife. son of 5 and daughter of 2.

The man wants to follow God's will .. but he is troubled -- as in one place he is commanded to 1) Kill the child for the Sin of the Father .. along with the rest of the Sinner's family.. in the other he is told == 2) The Child is not to be punished for the sins of the Father -- Each is to be punished for their own sin

Help us Ken .. do we abort the fetus by killing the Mother .. and slit the young Lads throught .. leaving the baby daughter for last .. perhaps a human sacrifice as means of execution.

Or - do we go with God El's command - and rule of law principle ! from Hammurabi .. Good friend of Abe - and make a rule -- no person is to be punished for the actions of another - Each according to their own sin"

Tell us the name of the God we should follow Ken .. so that we can be put right with God ? Should we follow the God named Jealousy ? Should we follow Lord YHWH ? Should we follow The Supreme one "EL Oliun" EL - God of the Patriarchs .. or should we follow the very powerful God and Chief God of the Earth Ha Satan ?

Which "Word of God" do we follow Ken ? Tell us what to do ?

 

[Soapy]

Romans 8:33-35​

​

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

Romans 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

Interesting how you want to take and sit on the judgment seat. I think Lucifer tried that once.

Kenny, I did not judge you… I said that YOU judged yourself.

And do you call yourself ‘an Elect of God’?
Now THAT’S A FATAL judgement call on yourself!!!

 

[Ajax]

Contradictions - Tell is Ken .. if you wish to be put right with "The Father" and get into heaven .. according to Jesus (not Paul) - Matt 7:24 .. you need to Do the Will of the Father .. Follow the Commands of God.

Jesus is referencing a pre-existing concept - how one is put right with God- the answer - by doing what God commands "The Will of the Father" 21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

So Ken crying out Lord Lord .. thinking "Faith alone" will save a person - James 2 .. Such a faith is worthless and foolish"...

Paul contradicts even himself....

Rom 2:13 "For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified."
Rom 3:28 "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law."

 

[Sargonski]

Apparently that is a mistranslation. It seems to have been a rhetorical question but there is no question mark in Hebrew to make that clear. Clearly Abram did know the name of YHWH.

What a desperate plea for help friend -- What mistranslation? .. and there is no rhetorical question ? you say "IT" What is this mysterious "It" you are referring to ... followed by the unsupported assumed premise fallacy that Abram knew the name of YHWH ? .. when scripture states clearly that your claim is false. one of the few times we have YHWH speaking first person.

Here is the passage you claim is mistranslated -- there is no rhetorical question .. Exodus 6:2

“I am YHWH [e] 3 I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob as[f] El Shaddai,[g] but by my name YHWH[h] I was not known to them.

Clearly the confusion is yours Ebionite ? If the above New English Translation is a mistranslation .. please give us the correct translation .. the one with the rhetorical question ? and where the name YHWH was in fact known to Abram.

 

[Sargonski]

Maybe no in Matthew, Luke or Mark, but John wrote enough about that:

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god. 2 This one was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence. What has come into existence (...) 14 So the Word became flesh and resided among us, and we had a view of his glory, a glory such as belongs to an only-begotten son from a father; and he was full of divine favor and truth. 15 (John bore witness about him, yes, he cried out: “This was the one of whom I said, ‘The one coming behind me has advanced in front of me, for he existed before me.’”) (...) 18 No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is at the Father’s side is the one who has explained Him.

... 3:13 Moreover, no man has ascended into heaven but the one who descended from heaven, the Son of man. (...) 31 The one who comes from above is over all others. The one who is from the earth is from the earth and speaks of things of the earth. The one who comes from heaven is over all others. (...)

... 6:33 For the bread of God is the one who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.” (...) 38 for I have come down from heaven to do, not my own will, but the will of him who sent me. (...) 62 What, therefore, if you should see the Son of man ascending to where he was before?

... 8:23 He went on to say to them: “You are from the realms below; I am from the realms above. You are from this world; I am not from this world. 24 That is why I said to you: You will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am the one, you will die in your sins.” (...) 57 Then the Jews said to him: “You are not yet 50 years old, and still you have seen Abraham?” 58 Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to you, before Abraham came into existence, I have been.” 59 So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid and went out of the temple.

... 17:1 Jesus spoke these things, and raising his eyes to heaven, he said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify your son so that your son may glorify you, (...) 5 So now, Father, glorify me at your side with the glory that I had alongside you before the world was.

Yes .. that was the point .. .. Jesus is not pre-existent in the synoptic Gospels .. however the Divinity of Jesus grows over time.

In the Original Story .. Jesus is a normal man who is given a small piece of the divine All Spark as a man of 30 at his baptism .. a voice from the clouds declaring that he is the adopted son of God .. the annointed one of God as was Emperor Cyrus .. the greatest the world had every known up to that point.

As with the Egyptian Pharaoh.s -- The King had to undergo a King-Making ritual prior to being actualized as half man half God.. apparently this ritual was dangerous and there was at least some risk of death.

The Spirit leads Jesus away to the Desert for Ritual Testing .. in the Desert -- the Tester shows up .. Chief God over the Earth -- Son of God Supreme .. to put Jesus through his paces.

Jesus passes with flying colors .. goes out to become a great healer and Prince of Peace .. a Priest forever in the Order of MelChi-Zedek. the Son of Man is not equal to God in this story - nor anywhere near on the God in question's level of Divinity the one Jesus calls "Our FAther in Heaven, Hallowed be thy Name"

and it is this Name part that most Christians have a problem .. but we digress .. there is no virgin birth in the Original Story .. no physical resurrection .. no Jesus wandering around in the flesh after death .. Paul reports he heard there was a sighting in the clouds .. like the sightings of the Virgin Mary in the clouds .. by the 500 .. likens it to his vision . which is one of a spiritual resurrection .. and not physical.

So .. in the original version of the story .. no pre-existence .. nor in the first revision of the original -- with edits and more material .. In the first revision of the story .. is added a virgin birth and some physical resurrection stories .. The divinity of Jesus is increasing

In Luke we have more color past the virgin birth .. stories of miraculous deeds prior to the age of 30 .. suggesting Jesus had the God spark before baptism .. and he adds more to the physical resurrection stories. Jesus divinity just gets bigger with every re-telling.

Then .. many many decades .. perhaps as much as 3 generations after the original story was published .. ~60 AD .. ~Matt 80 AD - after fall of Temple - Luke at some point after that .. then ~100-120 AD we have not a revision (hence why not Synoptic) .. but a new and different story.. which begins using some modern Platonic Philosophical terminology and ideas .. Hellenistic ideas are being incorporated into this evolving new religion. The story obviously not writted by the the Disciple John who by tradition did not speak Greek .. and was Martyred with the others some 50 years back.

In this new story the divinity of Jesus has evolved further .. such that he does not resemble the Jesus of the original story... Jesus is not an emanation from the Godhead .. "The Logos" - the use of the term "The Word" a horrible and intentional mistranslation. .. The Logos depicts Jesus as the emissary between man and God.. who speaks the Word of God through the Holy Spirit.

So while Jesus is now more divine .. and pre-existent.. the Jesus of John has not yet reached the hights of equality with God .. that takes another 200 years .. well into the 4th century AD when Jesus rises to that height.

 

[Sargonski]

Paul contradicts even himself....

Rom 2:13 "For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified."
Rom 3:28 "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law."

Or at least he contradicts the "Free Pass" ideology of Idol Martin .. aka wolf in sheeps clothing

 

[Kenny]

Your statements made me giggle


Yes

no - that were what the Bible calls Judaizers. They actually gave Paul the right hand of fellowship

yes


Yes, he did.

Interesting, and yet Jesus told him about the Lord’s supper. For someone who never met him, that was quite a feat.

That’s because it doesn’t fit your theology

Not if you understand why He did what He did and what He had to do to accomplish it.

The problem is that you are equating “The Word who was God” with the manifestation of The Word when He came as a man

No. 4th Century AD was about making sure that the message didn’t change:

It actually started way before such as:

169–181: Theophilus of Antioch​

...the three days before the luminaries were created are types of the Trinity, God, his Word, and his Wisdom.

— To Autolycus 2:15[31]

I don’t think 169 - 184 is 4th century

Oh really??
What is the context in... when all things are subjected to God, then the Son himself will also be subjected to God?

The context is when The Word (Which was God) John 1 - emptied Himself of God attributes (Phil 2) - became man (john 1) to legally enter into this world (Gen 1) - to defeat death, hell and the grave and give authority back to man (Matt 28) - and in his human state - to receive back the glory that He once had as God (John 17:5) - and thus would be subject to the Father - as He is now the High Priest.

What is the context in... the head of every man is Christ and the head of Christ is God?

Above.

What is the context in.. Paul thanking his God through Jesus Christ?

He is the mediator

What is the context in.. Jesus described in Acts as God's servant?

Because He came as man

What is the context in.. Jesus confessing that there is only one true God and his Father is his God?

As man, He was.

Evidence please...

I will paraphrase your answer...sometimes with "context" you may present the most wild claims..

View attachment 88636

Now...

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Luke 1:47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.
John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
Philippians 2:5-6 “You must have the same attitude that Christ Jesus had. Though he was God, he did not think of equality with God as something to cling to.
John 1:18 “No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.“
Colossians 2:9-10 “For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily. and in Christ you have been brought to fullness. He is the head over every power and authority.“
John 10:33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.“
1 John 5:20 “And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.“
John 8:57-58 “The people said, “You aren’t even fifty years old. How can you say you have seen Abraham?” Jesus answered, “I tell you the truth, before Abraham was even born, I Am!”
Revelation 1:17-18 “When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. But he laid his right hand on me, saying, “Fear not, I am the first and the last, and the living one. I died, and behold I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades.“

 

[Ajax]

The context is when The Word (Which was God) John 1 - emptied Himself of God attributes (Phil 2) - became man (john 1) to legally enter into this world (Gen 1) - to defeat death, hell and the grave and give authority back to man (Matt 28) - and in his human state - to receive back the glory that He once had as God (John 17:5) - and thus would be subject to the Father - as He is now the High Priest.

So since Jesus fulfilled all these things and received back his glory, I suppose he is now subjected to God, right?


As for Matthew 28 you quoted, Jesus said that “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me."

But John, 25 years later said "“Satan, the ruler of this world, will be cast out.” (John 12:31) "

And Paul wrote “Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don’t believe the Gospel.” (2 Corinthians 4:4)

No wonder that Christians are so confused and change denominations with all these contradictions... The new Tower of Babel...

 

[Soapy]

when all things are subjected to God, then the Son himself will also be subjected to God?​

Kenny response:​

The context is when The Word (Which was God) John 1 - emptied Himself of God attributes (Phil 2) - became man (john 1) to legally enter into this world (Gen 1) - to defeat death, hell and the grave and give authority back to man (Matt 28) - and in his human state - to receive back the glory that He once had as God (John 17:5) - and thus would be subject to the Father - as He is now the High Priest.​

So, your Jesus, who you say is God, emptied himself of being God, but remained being God…? He BECAME A MAN… Is that what you are saying?
Your own God became a man, became his own creation??

But since God is three inseparable persons, how did one become man while the other two remained fully God?

Furthermore, since one became man, there is a separation between them - and since all three are a unit God, they are now divided and so the WHOLE is broken - no more a unit GOD!!

Even if there is a ‘fully God and fully man’ this STILL MEANS that there is a disharmony between the three - that one is different from the other two… which begs the question:

• Is Jesus GREATER than GOD because he is BOTH God and Man?

or:

• Is Jesus LESS than God bd side he now has the WEAKNESS of Man in him?

What is the context in... the head of every man is Christ and the head of Christ is God?​

Kenny response:​

Above.​

Q: God is the head of Jesus Christ… So how is Jesus Christ, GOD?
How can GOD (your Jesus) be the head of God (The Father)?

Or is The Father God the head of the Son God, Jesus Christ?

What is the context in.. Paul thanking his God through Jesus Christ?​

Kenny response:​

He is the mediator​

Jesus has a God above him… - God, the Father; YHWh.

YHWH God is the Head of Jesus Christ, as jesus Christ is the head of man

What is the context in.. Jesus described in Acts as God's servant?​

Kenny response:​

Because He came as man​

God is no one’s Servant. But Jesus is severally times called ‘The Servant of God’ in various ways:

• ‘Behold MY SERVANT, my CHOSEN ONE whom I UPHOLD… I will put my spirit on him and he will do my bidding…’ (Isaiah 42:1)

God prophesied through Isaiah calling the messiah, his ‘SERVANT’…. A God, any God, is NO ONE’s Servant.

What is the context in.. Jesus confessing that there is only one true God and his Father is his God?​

Kenny response:​

As man, He was.​

So when does Jesus decide he wants to be a Man, and have a God above him… and when he wants to be God with only the Father above him? (Note that there’s no position due the so-called third God!!)

Jesus confesses that the Father is the only true God…. While trinity confesses that there are THREE PERSONS AS THE ONE TRUE GODS!!
Yet here, Kenny, and trinity, declares ONLY THE FATHER as the one true God…

They forget that TRINITY means THREE!!

They fouled up in their declaration that only the Father is the one true God…. But they will find a work-around, no doubt. Satan doesn’t sleep that often as he just did with that one. He has many servants who are wiley and will create devious ways around their grave errors.

 

[Kenny]

No wonder that Christians are so confused and change denominations with all these contradictions... The new Tower of Babel...

LOL… no… I still can’t help but think that you encountered an issue in your life as you skipped all the of scriptures I gave.

So since Jesus fulfilled all these things and received back his glory, I suppose he is now subjected to God, right?

Subject? As if they aren’t one?
John 10:30
I and my Father are one.

As for Matthew 28 you quoted, Jesus said that “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me."

But John, 25 years later said "“Satan, the ruler of this world, will be cast out.” (John 12:31) "

Are you wanting to make it something? John 25 - end of the world.
Matthew 28 - Go ye therefore… mining?

And Paul wrote “Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don’t believe the Gospel.” (2 Corinthians 4:4)

So true… in my view, that is what I would say in reference to your position

 

[Soapy]

LOL… no… I still can’t help but think that you encountered an issue in your life as you skipped all the of scriptures I gave.





Subject? As if they aren’t one?
John 10:30
I and my Father are one.





Are you wanting to make it something? John 25 - end of the world.
Matthew 28 - Go ye therefore… mining?




So true… in my view, that is what I would say in reference to your position

Ha ha ha ha ha…. Kenny, you are a hoot!!!

You are a sheer genius… !!

You’re a God!! Man, you are good!!!

I’m really happy that you reference many of your posts with ‘In my view’… because that’s all it is - and it’s a good thing too because it’s a false view - and you know it to be so!!

 

[Ajax]

@Kenny

1) Ajax wrote:
1 Cor 15:28 "When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things under him, so that God may be everything to every one."
Kenny replied:
I suppose that if we mine scriptures without context, you can make it say whatever you want to
2) Ajax wrote:
What is the context in... when all things are subjected to God, then the Son himself will also be subjected to God?
Kenny replied:
The context is when The Word (Which was God) John 1 - emptied Himself of God attributes (Phil 2) - became man (john 1) to legally enter into this world (Gen 1) - to defeat death, hell and the grave and give authority back to man (Matt 28) - and in his human state - to receive back the glory that He once had as God (John 17:5) - and thus would be subject to the Father - as He is now the High Priest.
3) Ajax wrote:
So since Jesus fulfilled all these things and received back his glory, I suppose he is now subjected to God, right?
3) Kenny replied:
Subject? As if they aren’t one?

Do you have any problem understanding what I wrote?
Do you understand what Paul means by the Son being subjected to God?

Or you pretend that you don't understand?

You also quoted Mat 28 regarding authority... Jesus says..."“All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me." OK?

But "John", 25 years after Matthew's gospel writes "“Satan, the ruler of this world, will be cast out.” (John 12:31) " He will be...meaning Satan still is ruler.. so who had authority when the John(s) wrote their gospel?
And Paul some 15-20 years after Jesus death acknowledges that "Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don’t believe the Gospel.” (2 Corinthians 4:4)

Do you see any slight contradiction there? I suppose no, right? Who cares who is the ruler and who has authority...

 

[Ajax]

LOL… no… I still can’t help but think that you encountered an issue in your life as you skipped all the of scriptures I gave.

It's probably the other way around judging from your replies..

 

[Sargonski]

Your statements made me giggle


Yes

no - that were what the Bible calls Judaizers. They actually gave Paul the right hand of fellowship

yes


Yes, he did.

Interesting, and yet Jesus told him about the Lord’s supper. For someone who never met him, that was quite a feat.

That’s because it doesn’t fit your theology

Not if you understand why He did what He did and what He had to do to accomplish it.

The problem is that you are equating “The Word who was God” with the manifestation of The Word when He came as a man

No. 4th Century AD was about making sure that the message didn’t change:

It actually started way before such as:

169–181: Theophilus of Antioch​

...the three days before the luminaries were created are types of the Trinity, God, his Word, and his Wisdom.

— To Autolycus 2:15[31]

I don’t think 169 - 184 is 4th century

Sorry friend .. but Jesus has not yet risen to equality with God .. you are thinking of a different Trinity .. conflating that Trinity with this one .. but a common mistake. Just because we find various Trinities all over the place friend ... doesn't make each of these Trinities the same. Jesus did not become "officially" co-Equal with God until the Second Council ~ 350 .. so Mid 4th century ..

Point being -- a long time from the writing of John

Can't make heads or tails of most of your one word responses. and its little to nothing .. not nothing .. thinking there is a difference a fail. Paul would have learned something about Jesus .. get a grip - does not mean he knew the man.

Paul never had interaction with of any significance with Jesus while Jesus was alive at least from what his writings tell us. .. Sorry friend .. If Jesus says one thing in scripture .. and Paul says another .. I go with Jesus. On the topic of Christs divinity .. I am looking for what Jesus said .. or is purported to have said -- not what some fellow who never knew the man postulates about him.

"The Right Hand of Fellowship" - whats that mate sounds almost lurid .. but sorry friend .. Paul was not part of the club.. Not a member of the Church of Jerusalem .. and had little contact with the Church.

 

[Ajax]

So when does Jesus decide he wants to be a Man, and have a God above him… and when he wants to be God with only the Father above him? (Note that there’s no position due the so-called third God!!)

Jesus confesses that the Father is the only true God…. While trinity confesses that there are THREE PERSONS AS THE ONE TRUE GODS!!
Yet here, Kenny, and trinity, declares ONLY THE FATHER as the one true God…

They forget that TRINITY means THREE!!

Assuming for a moment that a Trinitarian God always existed, it is at least weird that a) YHWH insisted in OT that he is the one and only God and there are no other Gods besides him b) Jesus confirmed that YHWH is the the ONLY true God as well as his God, who is greater than him and c) no one mentioned Trinity in the Bible.
Matthew 28:19 and 1 John 5:7-8 are later additions which can not be found in old Greek and Latin texts.
As I mentioned before Eusebius of Caesarea writes in almost all of his books written prior to 336 AD that Matthew 28:19 reads: "Go ye and make disciples of all nations in my name, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you."

 

[Soapy]

Assuming for a moment that a Trinitarian God always existed, it is at least weird that a) YHWH insisted in OT that he is the one and only God and there are no other Gods besides him b) Jesus confirmed that YHWH is the the ONLY true God as well as his God, who is greater than him and c) no one mentioned Trinity in the Bible.
Matthew 28:19 and 1 John 5:7-8 are later additions which can not be found in old Greek and Latin texts.
As I mentioned before Eusebius of Caesarea writes in almost all of his books written prior to 336 AD that Matthew 28:19 reads: "Go ye and make disciples of all nations in my name, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you."

All true what you said.

I don’t even need writings by Eusebius et Al., to confirm that trinity is false. It may be needed by academics and ideologists but, for me,

• ‘There is one Father, and one God of all: YHWH GOD’

And YHWH GOD is the one true God, and there is no other true God. All other WHOM ARE CALLED GODS come under the description of ‘Mighty ones’ as in

• Human Heroes are those who are ‘Gods’ among Men
• The Holy Angels are SONS OF GOD, Gods (Mighty) in their own category of being (Spirits)
• A Court Judge is THE GOD in his courtroom - He is THE Ruler in his system of things
• Satan is THE GOD of the worldwide system of EVIL things

With Kenny, and the likes of trinity people, they claim that Jesus is:

1. Man, mortal, CAPABLE of sinning due to having free-Will, LACKING IN ALL KNOWLEDGE
2. ALMIGHTY GOD, immortal, immutable (??!!), incapable of sinning, ALL KNOWING

The above belief clearly expresses TWO COMPLETELY SEPARATE individual entities. As Jesus, himself says:

• ‘No one puts new wine (Purity) in an old skin (Humanity)’

which means, a sinless person cannot occupy a sinnable body. When Jesus attained purity on his resurrection, he was granted A NEW BODY (fashioned on the old) but IMMORTAL and SPIRITUAL… which is why it was hard for those who had known him before to recognise him now.

There’s much more but I’d be here all day if I tried.

 

[Ajax]

With Kenny, and the likes of trinity people, they claim that Jesus is:

1. Man, mortal, CAPABLE of sinning due to having free-Will, LACKING IN ALL KNOWLEDGE

They are right, actually. Jesus sinned twice. He killed with wrath a plant for no reason except because it didn't have fruits to eat, when it was not in season. Why didn't he make a miracle?

Matthew 21:18-19 "In the morning, as he was returning to the city, he was hungry. 19 And seeing a fig tree by the wayside he went to it, and found nothing on it but leaves only. And he said to it, “May no fruit ever come from you again!” And the fig tree withered at once."

Mark 11:13 says "When he reached it, he found nothing but leaves, because it was not the season for figs."

That goes to show that not only he was not omniscient, but he appeared ignorant of the fact the fig trees do not have fruits in spring. It also shows that the Bible is not the word of God. No God would have inspired people to write these things.